Mehmet, Interesting Reviewer On Amazon.com

[GreekAussie]

From the Amazon.com review section of Taner Akcam's book "A Shameful Act",

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/discussionboard/d...#wasThisHelpful

 

Reviewer: Mehmet Mehmet "Mehmet"

 

I am a Turkish citizen from South East Anatolia.

 

All my life, I have heard stories from my own family of how everybody, (including my ancestors) have murdered the Armenians in the region with detailed description of how the river Euphrates ran days red with blood.

 

The interesting thing is that these would be discussed only in private with the voices being lowered as the subject matter or stories were repeated. But when official Turkish lies of the Turkish State would be recited on TV, or when "we" were being "attacked" by those "ugly, deceptive, liar, treacherous" Armenians, foreigners, etc. Nobody, absolutely nobody, stood up to say the truth they had been talking about in private parties.

 

Privately accept, and even boast about how we "killed them all," but publicly deny the genocide!

This is the official Turkish position since these horrific events took place.

 

A nation as my own, that is embarrassed about the identity it took around 1900's, ashamed from its past, history, the blood on their hands, can not, does not, will not even start to understand democracy, humanity, value of human lives.

 

Taner Akcam helps us deal with this dark side of our history, a part that is so embarrassing that many Turks refuse to even think about it. Nevertheless, a side that has shaped the Turkish identity since our so-called "liberation war." If we do not understand the events presented in this book, we will repeat the same shameful events in our lives.

 

History actually DID repeat itself as the Turkish state in recent times murdered around 30,000 of its Kurdish citizens, similar to the Armenian genocide. Why?

 

Using Kurds in the genocide against our own Armenian citizens around 1915, now the monster needed more blood against its own citizens, the Kurds this time, because they do not look, speak, behave or dress like us.

 

Those who hide the past can not survive the truth today. The same, exactly the same stupid excuses used to justify a genocide around 1915 is again being used today as if that makes murdering 800,000 - 1.5 million OK. This is the official Turkish state line. Today we are again fed the line that "Enemy within is stabbing us in the back... so they deserve the fate of Armenians..." With nationalist press openly writing, "We did it then, we will do it again..." Unfortunately the nationalist mentality does not question the lies of its rulers, so, many Turks today follow the distorted lies written in their secondary school history books. This is why books like "A shameful act" becomes important when it exposes the official lies of the Turkish government.

 

We must thank courageous Mr. Akcam and other authors like Pamuk to clean our bloody, dirty history and deal with the crimes our forefathers have committed against humanity. Otherwise we will live with this blood dripping from our hands and face.

 

As a proud Turkish citizen, I want to live guilt free. I do not want these crimes pushed under the rug by Turkish military, official historians (parrots of government, whose paychecks depend on toeing the official lies) or the criminal Turkish state. It is time to come clean. Enough of stupidity. If we can privately accept the crimes, it is time to stand up to the crimes publicly. Mr. Akcam takes the steps to challenge the official re-written history to do just that in this book.

 

It is also shameful that Turkey discovers France's crimes in Algeria recently when France mentions the crimes of Turkey against the Armenians. Yes, of course France also has committed those crimes against Algeria. But where were the Turkish nationalists until now? The policy of my government/nationalists is "If you let my crimes go unmentioned, I will not bring up your crimes!" When, soon, the same issue will be brought up in the US, the Turkish nationalists will be discovering what the US has done to the blacks, natives, Filipinos. But for the time being they are silent on these genocides, to see if they can keep the US silent on the Turkish crimes. If and only if the US adopts a resolution condemning our crimes, then and only then they will discover the crimes of the US. This is the policy of a guilty nation. This is the mentality of a guilty nation.

 

I do not want to live with this shame any more. Hiding is not the answer. Lying is not the answer. Denial of these crimes is not an answer. As we love saying at home, "You can not cover the sun with mud!" So, let us talk, discuss and openly accept the crimes of our fathers and face up to our responsibilities, as Akcam has done in this book.

 

Only if we start talking about it, only if we accept the crimes committed do we have a chance to become the overused word "civilized" back at home. Then, and only then, we will have a chance to understand what we have done to the Kurds, to Greeks, to Alevis, the Marash and Chorum massacres, Sivas murders in our recent past, the military coup after military coups that plague our nation, the constant military rule, human rights abuses every day, rape of women in police stations, rampant torture, official assassinations, state sponsor of nationalist fascist groups such as the Grey Wolves, state involvement in narcotics dealings, terrorist harboring, official Turkish state involvement in the assassination attempt against Pope and tens of thousands of people imprisoned, tortured, destroyed under 1980 military coup supported by the US etc.

 

The root of all these barbaric events started with the way, with the shape this country and state was formed. We made the Armenians our first victims. Now it is our Kurdish population, after Greeks saw their share.

 

Germans stood up to their horrific crimes.

Don't we have even that much of honor to stand up and condemn the criminals (even if they are from my own family) so that we can live a life with a clear conscience? Even during the genocide, the responsible people accepted the crime they were committing, saying, "We take the risk of being called murderers with these events, but, for our country, this is necessary to do." (My paraphrasing) So, what is this "riding on high horse" attitude of today's generation in Turkey? Who is kidding who? When will we start questioning the official line of our government and its paid stooges of "historians"?

 

I want to live honorably. I do not want to carry this shame put on me by our founding fathers. I want all criminals who have painted the region with blood to be tried and brought to justice, even after their death. So, I can live guilt free.

 

It is high time to accept the crimes, apologize to the Armenian community for the unmentionable suffering we caused in their lives. Open up their sacred places to them, and compensate their losses. This is the right thing to do. Our denying a fact only causes more polarization, more misery, more animosity between our and the Armenian and the Kurdish nations. It is also corrupting our own identity. When will we see that more blood is not the answer? Why can't we be the first to denounce ALL genocides, including the French in Algeria, Turkish in Armenia, US against blacks and natives, European against African etc? Then we will have the honor to look others in the eye? Then, and ONLY then, will I say, "How happy is one who says, `I am a Turk'" I will not say this while I am living under the shame of our founding fathers. I will not say this phrase while knowing that the person who suggested we say this was tried and condemned in relation to the Armenian genocide! Don't we have clean people, like many governors at the time who refused to obey the Turkish orders and refused to participate in these horrific, bloody crimes? Why aren't THEY the Turkish heroes today? Weren't they also Turkish? Akcam documents these in this book. So why always chose the criminals, murderers, killers as our heroes? Do we ONLY praise criminals? What does this say about us? As one holocaust survivor wrote to her father after seeing the crimes of Israel, "Father, who have we become?"

 

Don't we have enough honor to say, "Who have we become?"

Akcam shows us the history that made us who we are today. Thank you Taner.

Edited August 21, 2007 by GreekAussie

[GreekAussie]

Norma Beredjiklian

Hello Mehmet,

Read your review of Taner´s book and I was moved to tears by your words. Of course, I am the daughter of an Armenian survivor, in his case, saved by the Turkish mayor of his town, Gaziantep. My father was then 6 years old. Therefore, I guess I am writing this to you because of that very honorable Turk. Yes, it is a sad state of affairs, particularly this weekend on account of the murder of Hrant Dink. By the way, my other half is German so I understand guilt as well.

 

I am writing from Argentina, where my father came to live after Istambul. I also lived in the US.

 

My best to you.

 

Norma (Manoushag) Beredjiklian

pampavioleta@yahoo.com

 

 

George Baloglou

Very laudable review by 'Mehmet', let's hope it is the heart that dictates it and not the circumstances!

 

[More and more Turks realize that the sad events of 1915 cannot be denied for much longer, therefore they think that Turkey should admit the genocide before she is forced (intellectually rather than politically) to do so. But, as Ackam's book points out, the events of 1915 have their roots decades and centuries earlier: will the same Turks who demonstrated against Hrant Dink's assassination admit, for example, that Armenians, Greeks, and others have no reason to be fond of the Ottoman Empire's domination? Will they agree that it is not right for Turkey to deny her Kurds the same rights secured by force for Turkish Cypriots? That Turkish attitude toward her neighbors (Greece in particular) is bullish? That Kemalist Turkey is way too chauvinistic for the 21st century? That it is time for Turkish army to retreat from Turkish politics? That the support offered to Turkey and Turkish positions by foreign governments and institutions is often propelled by geopolitical considerations rather than broadly defined merit? The Armenian issue is sadly straightforward, the other issues not quite so...]

 

T. Ilhan

Shame on you Mehmet!

First, open a dictionary and read the definition of Genocide.

 

The fact that your grand-family killed Armenians does not mean that Ottoman Empire systematically massacared Armanians.

 

In the same way, heartbraking stories from the past, espeacially the ones that belong to only to one side of the conflict, do not neccessarily sum up to a genocide.

 

Shame on all of you who demote the actual meaning of genocide.

 

If you question the treatmeant of Armenians and other peoples in Ottoman Empire generally, ask yourself:

 

"After living under Turkish rule for 600-700 years, how come Greeks, Armeanians and Kurds have not lost their language, religion and culture?"

 

Then, ask the same question for the countries which colonized Africa, North & South America, India, etc.

 

Ali S. Erdogan

Well done MEHMET brother..we have to speak out..we should not be afraid of anyone..especially those racist people out there should not scare us..

 

Osman Tanci

First of all, as a Turk, I could also have done what you did and written under an Armenian name, blaming "my Armenian ancestors" for the horrific acts they did. This is not a children's game, people, please wake up.

 

You do not even write your last name, because the only thing you know in Turkish is the word "Mehmet", and you repeat that in the hope of seeming realistic. This is not even funny, it's cheap.

 

If this is a war, then I am "Atom Babajiyan". My ancestors killed and raped Turkish villagers in the past, drinking their blood and even bathing in it. Very similar to their friends Greeks and Greek Cypriots, we even have tea parties in our house where they talk about it and have fun while drinking Turkish coffee. And now they're laughing about it, how bad --I'm ashamed of myself and my family. God, please forgive me and my people.

 

Was this good enough, "Mehmet"??

[GreekAussie]

Asim Alkan Atabay

The review of Mehmet is not objective. He denounces Turkish government of doing genocide against 30.000 Kurds but simply ignores the fact that theese innocent Kurds are massively armed and do not avoid use their weapons against unarmed ordinary people which exactly matches the definition of terrorism. Following his reasoning we conclude that the fight of a government against terrorism is genocide if executed by Turks.

As to the Armenian case , I want to say that discussing the events in the past will not bring us peaceful future, because history does not consists of just 90 years. If we discuss what Turks did 90 years ago why we should not discuss what some others did 900 years ago. Does anybody really believe that this kind of discussions will bring peace to mankind ?

Yes Turks did move about 1 million of Armenians. Then, why did several millions of Turks and muslims move from Balkans to Anatolia? Did many of them die during this emigration? Were they very happy to leave the land they born in? Should we we question all this in order to reach peace?

He claims that history textbooks of turkish secondary schools are distorted. But those books do not cover neither Armenian nor Turkish emigrations which I think is a better way to look into the future.

Mehmet talks about compensating the losses. It seems very subtle. But, how? Is there anyone alive who suffered 90 years ago? If there is no time limit related to compensation of historical crimes why would people not claim compensation for crimes of 900 years ago? Can this subtle idea bring peace to mankind ?

Moreover compensation is not issue of Mehmet because he does not live in Turkey.

Mehmet, if you do not earn your living in this land please do not offer any compensation which will not bring any liability on you. I believe that you are very honest and sincere and share your imaginations about the future. But I could not accept that your proposals will contribute to the peaceful future.

 

regards

 

Mehmet Mehmet

Ilhan,

Since you are referring to the definition of genocide but are refusing to show us the same, here is the easiest way to get to it:

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/GENOCIDE.ENCY.HTM

 

And here are the points that make an act a genocide, and ALL OF WHICH HAVE BEEN CARRIED OUT by our grandfathers:

2. WHAT IS GENOCIDE?

 

Genocide is foremost an international crime for which individuals, no matter how high in authority, may be indicted, tried, and punished by the International Criminal Court (ICC). According to Article 6 of the ICC Statute, This crime involves, "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

 

a. Killing members of the group;

 

b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

 

c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

 

d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

 

e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

 

So, sit and study it, then hold your face in shame.

Regards.

 

Mehmet Mehmet

Of course you COULD HAVE done it Osman.

 

But it does not strike you as a Turk how shameful it is that even as citizens and Turks we do not have the democratic right to speak our minds. We are limited by the Turkish Penal Code to say what our founding fathers have done to our very own citizens in the past or now. And we are forced to conceal our identites because we will end up in jail for speaking the truth.

 

So, one day, when we have TRUE democracy, we, as proud Turks, can and will stand up against shameless nationalist and will discuss openly the horrific destruction we brought to our very own citizens: Kurds, Greeks, Armenians, Alevi's etc.

 

Then and only then will we be able to stand up straight, be able to look others in the eye and condemn the murderers, just like any civilized people should do, and, then and ONLY THEN will we be proud to say, "We have cleansed our past from bloody murderers. Let's move on."

 

Yes, you COULD pretend to be a Greek. But you don't need to. There are enough Greeks, Alevi's, Kurds and Armenians, all our citizens, who will, and has, even under the threat of murder, stand up to testify to "our" crimes.

 

Do what you need to do Osman.

 

Mehmet Mehmet

Asim Alkan, joining the nationalist flow, accuses "The Kurds" as a whole to be "massively armed.." etc.

He does not for a minute consider that the Kurds demanded a basic, very fundamental human right that was denied to them by the nationalist fanatics of the Turkish State: To speak their own language, identify with their ethnic origin, cultural rights, to be able to name their children according to their tradition.

 

But, isn't this the very same reason that killed millions of Armenians?

 

These basic rights, denied since the formation of the "modern" Turkish state was the main reason behind the Turkish State's barbaric attacks against its very own Kurdish citizens for years, not only in recent history. "A shameful act" that has become a tradition in "modern" Turkey's history.

 

Armenian issue, as stated also by Taner Akcam, lies at the heart of this problem.

 

When a "modern" state was formed undemocratically, with the blood of its very own citizens, there may be a connection on the rest of its atrocities that seem to follow the example of the genocide of the Armenians. If our "national heroes" got away with murder in the Armenian genocide, what was there to stop them from attacking Alevi's in Marash, Corum etc. or Kurds all over the country.

 

Living in Turkey is not an issue here Asim. The issue is acknowledging a wrong that was done, and for demanding justice, even in their absence punishing the murderers.

 

I do not live in France either, yet, I believe France should be punished for their crimes in Algeria also. As well as the US against their genocide on Blacks and the Native Americans or the Philippines or Iraqis. Or, Israel against the Palestinians. I have no sacred cows as nationalist fascists do. To me, a murderer is a murderer is a murderer, even if he is the "nation builder" godly figure that my fellow Turks worship every day.

 

The way the compensation could be carried out is problematic of course. But that is secondary. First, lets stop the stupidity of denying a fact. We are becoming the laughing stock of the world by denying the very events we all know happened. I call it "Kayseri trader" syndrome ("Kayseri Tuccari." My friends from Kayseri please forgive me, it is a phrase that correspond to "used car salesmen" in English).

 

Most Armenians that I have talked to care less about the compensation. To them, it is unacceptable that millions of people could be murdered, and the perpetrators could walk the earth with impunity with a smirk and keep insisting, "Nothing happened, C'mon, forget it all, nothing happened."

 

Having attended an Armenian gathering last month and spoken as a Turk, I was driven into tears by crying elder Armenian men hugging me; a young Armenian women singing in Turkish the very same folk songs we know that she heard from her mother who had passed away; older people shaking my hand and offering the few Turkish words that had stayed in their memory of their past lives. Nobody, not a single one, even remembered to mention compensation. They hugged me as a Turk, as a human being. They all wanted the barbaric events to be acknowledged. They wanted one thing, that the world knows what happened to their families. That their lives were destroyed by their very own state.

 

Asim, if you are also concerned about the future, as you seem to be, we need to move on NOT by forgetting the events. We need to fully open the issues, debate, discuss and understand the motives, events, personalities, organizations, nationalism, nation building, class relations, religion, imperialism, capitalist development, wars etc. that lies behind the events that led to 1915. If we do not do this, we can not and should not go further. We are still living with the serial killer syndrome. Why do women lawyers get raped in police stations in Turkey? Why do older women who have lost their loved ones are attacked by the police in broad daylight by biting dogs? Why does the gendarmerie take poster boy pictures of murderers like a hero, and why do Turkish soldiers play soccer with the severed heads of their fellow citizens? Why does the Turkish Army burn entire forests? Why does the Turkish military use chemical weapons against it's own people? Don't you think these may have a link to the massacre of millions of our own people at the founding of our country/nation?

 

In order to do this debate and discussion in Turkey, we need democracy as a first step. People can not even start talking with the Article 301 or thousands of other fascist laws and regulation in place. How could there be a democratic debate when the Turkish Military, the ruler of the land, the US puppet army behind the "deep state" atrocities is above any and all law in Turkey?

 

Yes, we are concerned about the future. But the future is shaped by the past. Let us cleanse the blood from the past, so that our future with the Kurds, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs.. and mostly with ourselves is a better one. We, and we alone can build that future Asim. Burying the dust under the carpet will prevent us from a healthy, democratic, peaceful and friendly future.

 

Regards.

Edited August 21, 2007 by GreekAussie

[GreekAussie]

CCK

Mehmet Mehmet got really caried away! I think there is now no question about his/her (fake) identity.

 

These events happened in 1915 and before. Yes, apperantly what occured back then was horrific for both Armanians and Turks, apperantly the Armanians suffered a lot (possibly more). Having said this, it is absurd to ask today's Turks (like me) to accept/recognize/admit what happended as their nation's fault/crime, let alone call it a genocide. You cannot accept someone else's crimes in any court of law today. It is becoming a modern form of oppression.

 

I think the Turkish Government's current position is reasonable: do scientific research on the topic - it is part of history. I certainly do hope they (and all parties) would respect the results of such a research project.

 

This is not a political problem, virtually everyone (victims or agressors) are long dead. Yes, the truth is important, but we shouldn't let the politicians of some absurd contries (like France - is this a joke?) to decide on history. It is no service to anyone.

 

What is wrong with this approach?

 

Mehmet Mehmet

CCK,

You are being "carried away" with the propoganda of our government.

 

First, like all other nationalists, you start questioning my identity because I challange the Turkish government! What kind of a mentality is this? It is the SAME mentality that killed the Armenians because they could not fathom people with "different" religion (or, idea in your case) to be a citizen of their country.

 

Yes, CCK, one leader, one fuhrer, one nation, one ideology!

 

This is the "Turkish Army" mentality. If someone differs in a view, they must be the "other," hence eliminate them! This was Ataturk's ideology as well as the Turkish Army's ideology now that attacks the Kurdish babies, burns forests, destroys hamlets and villages (more than 3000 according to their own accord) and plans military coups every other week.

 

CCK says the Turkish government's position is reasonable. Really?

 

It is a stupid position to say on the one hand "Let's investigate this" and also on the other, make it a crime to defend the Armenian Genocide!!!!!

 

CCK, when you have time left over from worshipping the army, could you please check out the new "modern" penal code, and the State's own examples? There, our own state shows how the people who "claim" a genocide took place will be punished!

 

So, THIS is the state that wishes "scientific discussion" of the events! Yeah...Right!

 

CCK, could you also elaborate on the discussion that was supposed to take place academically? When hordes of Turkish nationalists led and fed and trained and set loose by the army/government/grey wolves etc. attacked the conference, beat up the academicians, tore the pictures down... and finally, later murdered Hrant Dink, a prominant Armenian author, citizen in Istanbul? Is this the environment that you would like to discuss "Scientific research?"

 

Or, how could a "scientific research" could be done, when some prominant writer (Pamuk) supported the genocide facts and was tried for his belief and again the Turkish nationalists tried to lynch him on the streets.

 

Turkish officials, tried by Turkish courts for genocide, presided by Turkish judges, stood up, one by one and announced how they were ordered to burn any/all documents to their crimes. CCK, you should, please, read the documents of these Turkish criminals. Now, CCK wants a "Scientific" research based on "facts."

 

How come, millions of our own citizen's testimonies do not count as an evidence for CCK... yet the slimy lies of a state/army formed out of lies and murder is! This is as low as you can get in nationalism.

 

This IS, dear CCK, a political problem. And if we can not take the word of OTHER (notice the nationalism here also)politicians, how can we take the word of "our" slimy politicians? Maybe because we share the same holy blood?

 

The acceptance of the genocide has nothing to do with you CCK. Yes, of course YOU personally did not commit a crime. But accepting the wrong that was done by our founding fathers, starts a healing process.

 

If it was your mother or sister that was wronged.. and you wanted justice... would you accept someone with a smirk on his face say, "C'mon, get over it, it happened long time ago, get a life!" and chuckle and giggle while they say, "proove scientifically that someone wronged your sister ha? ha? ha?"

 

The matters look different when the shoe is on the other foot right?

 

"We" did it to the Armenians then, "we" are doing it to the Kurds now. "We" have and are doing it to Alewi's now. Don't you see anything wrong here? Armenian gencide holds some clues for us. Where did the "Modern" Turkish state go wrong? What mistakes did they do? Why, why, why are we doing these horrific murders? Why are "we" still jailing Kurds who attempt to speak their mother tongue? Why do "we" shoot 14 year old innocent, unarmed kids on the street? Why do "our" army burns homes with people inside them? Don't you for a minute think these have roots in the Armenian genocide? Why do "our" army generals say, "What? Should we feed them instaed of hanging them?" before they murder underage kids by hanging them?

 

I said it before.. Like the Jewish women, after seeing what Israel today, wrote to her father, "Father, who have we become?" Turkish state, born similar to Israel, is living the results of its "Original sin" With its army reminding every citizen every nanosecond of the day that this state was born with blood, and that the army will ensure it stays constantly in a pool of blood.

 

We are prisoners of the sin our grandfathers have committed.

 

Regards.