Some Turkic elements in Armenian, Greek and Latin languages

[Rubo]

Building such museums by any one disgusts me, Does this mean the Holocaust museum also disgusts you? According to your statement it does. (If in doubt read your statement again) Which logically proceeds that you are a anti-Semite. Your cheap characterizations become reflection of the author.

[nairi]

Dear MJ,

 

Please don't get me wrong. I don't entirely disagree with you, but there are a few points I'd like to address.

 

1. Your experience with Turks: I live in a country with 385,000 conservative, if not extremist, Turks. Turks have five times as many organizations and institutions in Holland than Armenians have in America. If you meet a Turk here and you tell them you're an Armenian you have to be lucky that a) he/she knows nothing about Armenians, he/she is moderate towards Armenians. I repeat, "you have to be lucky".

 

2. I never claimed or said that ALL Turks are alike. There's a number of Turks I know that have (publicly) apologized and repented for their government's continued brainwashing program and the genocide that their ancestors committed. I respect them and would never confuse them with Turks who consciously deny the Armenian Genocide.

 

3. I can easily distance myself from the Genocide and its denial and not feel a lick of difference. But when I allow myself to feel the oppressed position Dutch Armenians, for instance, are in, it makes me sick to the stomach. It makes me sick to the stomach that everything Armenians try to do is thwarted one way or the other by these Turkish organizations and their many supporters.

 

4. By telling Turks that it's okay to not apologize, that we have already forgiven them, and that their denial makes no difference to us, gives them more reason to deny the Armenian Genocide and its consequences.

 

5. If denial of the Armenian Genocide, and the forms it has taken over the last 80 years should be ascribed to us, then Neo-Nazism should be ascribed to Jews, Gypsies, disabled, homosexuals etc. etc. I don't recall the last time Turks blamed ANYTHING on themselves. Therefore, why should we be so dumb to blame EVERYTHING on ourselves?

 

6. I never claimed to agree with everything the Armenian government thinks, says or does.

 

Nairi

[nairi]

Rubo jan, this is the museum I was talking about:

 

Museum to counter genocide claims to be constructed

 

Turkish Daily News

August 1, 2002

 

ANKARA -- The Committee for the Coordination of the Struggle Against

Baseless Genocide Claims has issued a written

statement to announce that a museum will be constructed to house and

display documents related to the so-called Armenian genocide claims. In

addition, 20,000 documents from the Ottoman State archives will be

translated into English and broadcast over the net to counter the

groundless claims.

 

The committee recently held its fourth regular meeting under the

chairmanship of State Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Devlet Bahceli.

The statement revealed information contained in the archival documents

about the so-called Armenian genocide claims and included suggestions

from several distinguished media officials for informing people about

the Turkish side of the story.

 

"Research institutes, including the Turkiyat Institute, will carry out

scientific studies to counter the baseless genocide claims and will meet

the needs of citizens who would like to learn the Armenian [language],"

the statement read. It was also pointed out that the committee's next

meeting will be held in October.

[Rubo]

Nairi jan

Thanks for the info. I have been keeping up with this development. It saddens me that some of our people would feel disgusted about Armenian genocide museum but feel equally supportive about Holocaust museum or at best play the deaf and dump game. This attitude is hypocritical. Our heritage and experience is no less important then that of Jews. I do not care what Turks would do in response. They have been swimming in crap for 85 years and their actions do not surprise me a bet.

[nairi]

Rubo jan, if "some of our people would feel disgusted about Armenian genocide museum..." refers to MJ, then you must have misunderstood the concept of this new museum. This is a museum that will be built by Turks in Turkey to prove that the Armenian Genocide is a lie. This has nothing to do with the Armenian Genocide museum in Washington. If I'm the one who misunderstood you, then I apologize beforehand.

[MJ]

Dear Nairi,

 

1. If you live in a country with 385,000 whatever Turks, and they are dedicated to whatever tasks, why would “you” be so dumb as to try to win against them on a stage where they have clear advantage. Additionally, why don’t you live in Armenia where Armenians are predominant majority, then you can pass whatever resolutions you may think of. Though, one has to notice that Armenians living in Armenia have not been so dumb as to pass meaningless resolutions. I think this partially sheds light on my stance in my attitude towards your argument #3. What is the reaction of the Dutch, by the way, that these to foreign elements come to the Dutch soil and bring with them their centuries old problems. Do Dutch fill annoyed with it? What is the implication of it? (Any insights, Elly?)

 

2. The insinuation of “forgiving Turks and letting them off the hook” is ridiculous, to the least. We are not in the position of “letting them off the hook,” because we have never had them “on the hook,” nor have ever been in the position to “have them on the hook.” Whether Turks will recognize Armenian Genocide or not, it has nothing to do with us forgiving them or not. I, personally, have forgiven them. Perhaps not for their own sake, because it wouldn’t make any difference to them, but for my own sake – it helps me to be a better and healthier person.

 

3. I couldn’t understand your point in paragraph 5.

 

4. I also don’t agree with everything that Armenian Government thinks and does. However, I think there are certain things that are its prerogative. I, in turn, as an individual, can deal with issues that individuals deal. The issues that are State issues, should be dealt with by a State.

[MJ]

By the way.. you have misunderstood me. I was saying that I am disgusted by the Armenian, Turkish, Jewish, etc, museums of Genocide or Holocaust or whatever you call it.

[Rubo]

mj

 

Argishti>Defeatist ideology that which Turkish deniers use often: Could you be bringing examples of commercial endeavors?

You have not proved your statements with facts! Does neo-nazi Holocaust denial fair argument? According to your faulty logic, it is. Ask the Jews if they tolerate Holocaust deniers. (It’s a laugh, need coffee?)

[nairi]

Dear MJ, moving around isn't as easy as you think. Besides I don't particularly like today's situation in Armenia.

 

Let me reiterate what I've said elsewhere in this forum. In a free world anyone should have the right to practice whatever culture, religion etc. without any oppression or fear from anyone. You may disagree with a monument for the Genocide. You may even protest against a national commemoration day. But it doesn't take away that many other Armenians feel the sincere need to attend such a commemoration. Who is anyone to say that they shouldn't be allowed? Or that they shouldn't feel this need? Or that it isn't sincere?

 

What you're saying is that we shouldn't fight for a free world because the overwhelming majority is against it. Is it because you're too chicken to face this majority?

 

Paragraph 5 is an answer to the first part of your first paragraph.

[MJ]

Your Highness,

 

Go get life...oops, I meant a throne...

[MJ]

Who is anyone to tell someone else what he/she should recognize and what he/she should not?

 

No, I am not. But are you too dumb to clearly understand the futility of your thoughts and what I am trying to convey?

[Rubo]

DEAR mj

Resorting to name calling just proves the weakness of your character and arguments. If you cannot debate in a civilized fashion then please don’t utter statements you can not handle.Cheers

[MJ]

Pathological ...

[nairi]

MJ, so you basically agree with the fact that Turks should continue with their denial policies and Armenians should just lay back and shut up. Meanwhile our country is blockaded, the Turkish army trespasses the borders every now and again, the Azeris are plannning a war against Artsax (even though the official Armenian position has been that of a peaceful solution), and what the heck let the Turks have the last bit of land we own as well while we're at it. Then we'll happily live ever after in diaspora and blame ourselves 'til kingdom come about all the ifs and buts we should or should not have done.

 

See, now I don't feel the same about your thoughts. There's thoughts you've expressed that I have learned from, other thoughts that confirmed mine, but every now and again, such as now, I disagree. This may seem futile to you, but hey, in a free world, you have all the freedom to qualify me as boring and useless as much as your heart desires.

 

Nairi

[Rubo]

These are the pinnacle examples of Mr.mj intellectual capacity. You have not proven any of your arguments.

 

Once again schizophrenia has taken over the active segment of the Hye Forum... It appears to me that it is a cyclical event...

 

Why not to spiral up to the next Darwinian level of our evolution?

 

And what should the adults driving like "vvvvvvvvvvvv,rrrrrr,vvvvvv......" with their mouths do?

 

Any more valuable insights?

 

Oh...firgive me , Sir. Didn't realize you were on a mission...

 

I feel compelled to say that I am disgusted with this thread.

 

Under a different mood, I would have considered your arguments about the handicap people as confession.

 

Don't you think, guys, it would be appropriate to open a thread "Khodja Hagaragian's and The Great Arghishty's Corner?"

 

Your Highness,

 

Go get life...oops, I meant a throne...

 

Plese send me your account number so that I make the tarnsfer...

 

Maybe, then, you will fill happier with yourself and get oof of my back... ( my favorite)

 

Argishti>It is quiet evident who exudes pathological utterances. cheers

[MJ]

Nairi,

 

Turks don’t ask nor they are short of my agreement in their continuation of denial. For me, their denial or acceptance is completely irrelevant – if they accept it, it would only make their nation a better one and liberate themselves with the heavy burden of their past and how others see them. If they don’t – worse for them. Either way, it has no relevance for me personally, but for Armenia it is better that she has better and more civilized neighbors then the opposite.

 

The rest of your statements are too hectic, I think.

 

1. I don’t recall the Ministry of Defense of Armenia declaring ever that the “Turkish army trespasses the borders every now and again.” Could you tell us please, where is this information originating from?

 

2. I am not aware of ” the Azeris planning a war against Artsax.” To the contrary, I think the Minister of Defense of Armenia has always discounted these types of decorations. Could you also allude where does this information come from?

 

3. About “Turks having the last bit of land we own as well while we're at it,” it is hard for me to understand the message you are trying to convey. Or if it is a counterargument, then please explain to what argument.

[elovna]

Is the humor section?

[elovna]

I meant... is this the humor section?

[MJ]

Yes...

 

It should be called Armenian Tragicomedy...

[elovna]

The Dutch people in general are not aware of what is going on, but if you talk to politicians, they very well know that there is a big problem that has to be solved and that it won't be easy to do so. I think that this subject needs to be presented to the public regardless of what will happen. People should know, so that they can make up their minds. By they way, I think I had too much portwine now and that I should stop posting and go to bed.

 

Bari gisher.

[Rubo]

I agree it is Humorous specially you Aghtchik got nothing to say and specially after mj> if the Genocide Recognition is becoming a political, academic, journalistic and commercial endeavor from one side, it is reasonable to expect or to tolerate, to the least, that its denial also may become such exercise?

Argishti>You have not proved your statements with facts! Does neo-nazi Holocaust denial fair argument? According to your faulty logic, it is. Ask the Jews if they tolerate Holocaust deniers.

[MJ]

Khodja,

 

Where are you...? I have found a good match for you...

[nairi]

Dear MJ,

 

1. I don’t recall the Ministry of Defense of Armenia declaring ever that the “Turkish army trespasses the borders every now and again.” Could you tell us please, where is this information originating from?

2. I am not aware of ” the Azeris planning a war against Artsax.” To the contrary, I think the Minister of Defense of Armenia has always discounted these types of decorations. Could you also allude where does this information come from?

 

Perhaps you should read the news more often and visit Armenia every now and again.

 

Either way, it has no relevance for me personally, but for Armenia it is better that she has better and more civilized neighbors then the opposite.

 

MJ jan, it is for Armenia that I am speaking.

 

Nairi

[nairi]

Okay Rubo, now you're pushing it. I didn't say anything about your last few posts, but I really couldn't hold my mouth after this one. Don't make me say more.

[MJ]

Nairi-Nairi,

 

That's not good, by at least being too presumptuous...

 

Also, direct questions warrant direct answers.