Some Turkic elements in Armenian, Greek and Latin languages

[sen_Vahan]

Mosjan,

ko kartsikov menk erbeve patrast klinenk? unenk gaxt (amen tesaki mardkanz - mtavorakanneriz brnaz , zinvoriz prtsaz), gahelutyun, vor sovorum e comerzia ev business, bayz voch divanagitutyun, razmakan gitutyun kam nman baner: Ev menk ayd ugerov uzum enk Turkiayi het "segan nstel" u "harz luzel"? nax ev arag, gone petk e irenz makardakin hasnel: bayz vonz???

Vahan

[SAS]

Vahan,

 

mite forumnerum en divanagitutyun kam razmakan gitutyun sovorum?

[MosJan]

VAhan jan BArekams norits em k@rknum petq e patrastvel, mez petq en der shat gortsonner sksyal mtavorakanerits - minch hasarak zinvor@ ~~~~ menq der patrast chenq iysor...

[Harut]

miayn C++, Shura, miayn C++!!!

[sen_Vahan]

Vahan,

 

mite forumnerum en divanagitutyun kam razmakan gitutyun sovorum?

 

Iharke, voch, SAS jan. Nkati unem, vor kani hayeri mez mas@ irenz erexekin talis en comerzia ev business sovorelu,menk chenk karog turkeri het gtnvel mi makardaki vra ev harz luzel nranz het:

Hima hayer' an@ndhat durs en galis erkriz, ev ov piti divanagitutyamb kam razmakan gitutyunov zbagvi - parz chi: SAS jan, da @ndhanur problem e, es el em durs ekel, kani vor im chemical physics-ov u lazernerov aranznapes mi ban chem karog anel Hayastanum: Ev in nman gahelner shat-shat kan tarber bnagavarneriz - ev ayd tvum divanagitutyan:

Vahan

[sen_Vahan]

Arpa jan, Mosjan,

 

Hamamit em dzez het: Aysor Hayastan@ ankaxutyun uni ev razmakan/divanagitakan haraberutyunner karog e tanel ayl erkrneri het: Bayz myus kogmiz el, chem haskanum, te inchi berez ayd ankaxutyun@?? Miguze, es tuyli mtazogutyun unem, bayz mievnuynn e chem haskanum, te mer erkir@ inch e shahum ankaxutyun unenalov, ete aysor gahelneri mez mas@ dursn en ev chen karoganum veradarnal, kani vor banak@ irenz spasum e Zvartnoz Odanavakayaniz: Chei asi, te ayd gahelner@ aynkan kamkiz tuyl en , vor vaxenum en gnan banak - uggaki, apaga chen tesnum ev chen uzum nman banakum zarayel:

Shat gahelner, voronk sovorum en tarber erkrnerum henz nuyn divanagitutyun@ kam ayl karevor baner, irenz kirarutyun chen gtni aydpisi erkrum: Es inks indz shat animast em zgum ayd tesaketiz:

Mosjan, du asum es, vor konkret aragarkner es sirum (ev da iskapes hoyakap e!), de ari Hayastani presidentin namak grenk (kam mi ayl migoz dzernarkenk), vor erkrum vergaznen ayd animast pak kagakakanutyun@, vor gahelner@ karoganan hangist ners u durs anel, vor mardik uzenan gnal Hayastan ev voch te paxnen:Haystan@ draniz miayn kshahi: Te che, gnalov mardik aveli u aveli en hiasrapvum ev chen el uzum voch gnal Hayastan, voch el lsel Nra masin:

Vahan

[MJ]

Dear Vahan,

 

Just one question:

 

Do you think that if Armenia was not independent, the economic and professional plight of our younger people would've been better at this time? Or do you think that they would've been better off by serving in somebody else’s army?

[sen_Vahan]

MJ,

I don't know what would happen if Armenia did not get the independence,first.I may guess but it won't change anyrhing. Second, I know that young people do not want to join the army whereas in Soviet time they did.

[MJ]

Vahan,

 

First, I disagree with you about the young people's readiness to join the Soviet army in the past. I happen to be a little older than you, I presume, and remember those times very well. One important observation is that at the time they had no choice - they could not leave the country and did not have even the luxury of contemplating weather to join the Soviet Army or not. There was no alternative. By your own admission, in our days other alternatives are available.

 

However, all this is even irrelevant. Armenia did not choose to be independent. It became so due to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Maybe this is one of the reasons that some people don't cherish its independence.

[sen_Vahan]

Vahan,

 

First, I disagree with you about the young people's readiness to join the Soviet army in the past. I happen to be a little older than you, I presume, and remember those times very well. One important observation is that at the time they had no choice - they could not leave the country and did not have even the luxury of contemplating weather to join the Soviet Army or not. There was no alternative. By your own admission, in our days other alternatives are available.

 

ALMOST ALL OF MY COUSINS JOINED THE SOVIET ARMY.AND NONE OF THEM THOUGHT TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY OR SOMETHING NOT TO JOIN.SECOND, NOW IF YOU ARE AROUND 18 OR MORE YOU CANNOT LEAVE THE ROA IF YOU DID NOT MEET THE MILITARY REQUIEREMENTS.AND THERE IS NO LUXURY.ONCE YOU SOMEHOW LEFT ROA (FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN YOU WERE 15 YEARS OLD) YOU CANNOT GO BACK BECAUSE YOU WILL BE FORCED TO JOIN THE ARMY.SO, EITHER JOIN OR STAY AWAY.

 

However, all this is even irrelevant. Armenia did not choose to be independent. It became so due to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Maybe this is one of the reasons that some people don't cherish its independence.

 

WELL, MORAZEL ES MARDASHAT ZUYZER' EREVANUM EV "ANKAXUTYUN,ANKAXUTYUN.....MIAZUM,MIAZUM...."?

People do not cherish its independence because they had to leave the country in huge numbers because of "no economy". And a lot of people today would be happy to leave ROA.

[MosJan]

Vahan jan yeek mi nor topic batsenq yev iynter iys masin zrutsenq / kartsum em iydpes arrdar klini topiki hamar / qanzi iyn / Some Turkic elements in Armenian, Greek and Latin languages.

 

-

[sen_Vahan]

I agree , Mosjan, how about "important about Armenia" in Republic of Armenia? Or choose something else

[MosJan]

Vahan jan anun@ karevor che - inch kuzes dir henst AR forumi mej - vstah enq bolors el mi ban unenq aselu suyn hartsi veraberyal

 

Movses

[MJ]

Vahan,

 

I don’t understand your argument or the testimony about your cousins. Sorry. I thought I was exactly saying that leaving the country was impossible in the Soviet Times.

 

I have to also let you know that other than some small details, there is not much that I have forgotten. Even the “Ankakhutiun, ankakhutiun…’ however, in case I didn’t make myself clear, I was saying that it was not “ZUYZER” which brought independence to Armenia.

 

I don’t have any strong arguments regarding your explanation of the reasons of people leaving Armenia and the further such potential possibilities. However, I fail to understand if you are trying to say that if “Margarita had not spilled the milk,” people would’ve felt happier, or you are trying to say something else which I still fail to understand.

 

P.S. BTW, could you turn the Cap Lock off, please?

[MJ]

Sorry, Movses. I didn't notice your previous suggestion before posting my reply to Vahan.

[MosJan]

Mj jan harts chi menka - yerb jamanak unenas terapoxi qo poster@ Ar - Forum - indz hamar djvara / mi dzerqov / nuyn@ kaseyi nayev VAhanin yev muysnerin heto yerb tsankanaq aseq k@jnjenq hner@.

 

Movses

[Arpa]

Originally posted by MosJan:

Originally posted by sen_vahan:

[qb]Mosjan,

ko kartsikov menk erbeve patrast klinenk? unenk gaxt (amen tesaki mardkanz - mtavorakanneriz brnaz , zinvoriz prtsaz), gahelutyun, vor sovorum e comerzia ev business, bayz voch divanagitutyun, razmakan gitutyun kam nman baner: Ev menk ayd ugerov uzum enk Turkiayi het "segan nstel" u "harz luzel"? nax ev arag, gone petk e irenz makardakin hasnel: bayz vonz???

Vahan

=======

VAhan jan BArekams norits em k@rknum petq e patrastvel, mez petq en der shat gortsonner sksyal mtavorakanerits - minch hasarak zinvor@ ~~~~ menq der patrast chenq iysor...

 

Sireliner MosJan yev VahJan. No, no this is not a "vakhjan/end". This is only the beginning.

Menq erbeg aysqan patrast chenq eghel mer hamayn patmutyan @ntatskqin.

Vahan laments the fact that we opt for the empirical sciences and tangible careers. True! Why would an Armenian study diplomacy when we had no diplomatic connection? Why would an Armenian study the science of war when we had no war department?

Today we have both. Wait a while and you will see that our military academies will overflow with candidates, our political science departments will have to turn down applicants. After all why would an Armenian boy/girl study something that has no propsect of employment!?

Throughout our entire history a student of poly-sci and military science had several options, they were whether to serve the Romans, the Persians, the Arabs, the Turk, the Russian ... did I miss any?

Por chi kshtatsni?

Gutse hima mi qich kshtatsni!!!

Forget the Diaspora. They still think Ghevond Yerets is our minister of war.

[MosJan]

Vahan jan bnavorutyamb yev te xarrnvatsqov yes aveli nax@xtrum em konkret ashxatanq - yete petq e iys kam iyn "Ashxatanq@" iysor anel patrast em, sirum em aveli anmijakan haraberutyun yev chem sirum zut xosqer shahadrel,

 

indz aveli hangist em zgum yerb mek@ konkret arajark uni / petq e anum enq / miyananq / hamaxmbvenq, xelq xelqi tanq iys kam iyn hartsi shurj yev Ikatar atsenq iyn. petq e glorenq - petq e glorel tanq- sakayn konkret ashatanq vori ardyunq@ HIMA karror enq tesnel, yev mnatsats ak@nkaliqner@ karor enq iysorva mer aratsi vra himmnenq.

urraki indz hamar djvar e veratsakan planavorel mi ban 50 tari hetoyi hamar yerb chgitem te varvas or@ inchpisin e, yev nuynsik chgitenq te mer uj@ irakanutyunum irenits inch e nerkayatsnum.

inch unenq yev inch chunenq...

 

yerb tesnum em mek@ konkret hakirj dzevov mi arajark e anum / yes patrast em miyanalu yev im mas@ nerdnelu.

[MosJan]

Arpa jan hamamit em sakayn chem uzum dzerqers tsalel yev nstel korqi / spasel / atum em spasel kochvats bar@ / chunem voch hamperutyun voch el jamanak vatnelu spaselu vra / uzum em konkret mi gorts vorn yes el karroranam mi ban anel.

 

isk spyurqin petq che morannal, spyurqum nuynpes kan shat u shat arjani yeritasardner vorontsits voroshin huysov em Hayastani HAnrapetutyun@ karorana nergravel yev tar ta vor masnaktsen HAyastani nerqin yev artaqin gortseri zargatsman@.

[aurguplu]

arpa,

 

1. that wasn't a monologue but a dialogue. both parties were clear in their positions. the fact that they didn't agree doesn't turn it into a monologue. it has just been a dialogue with no results. you do run such a risk when you get into a dialogue.

 

2. you haven't endured any turkish gobbldygook for a millennium. a millennium ago, you endured the sword (a sword is not gobbledygook, it is always very clear what it is), then you endured the rule (that was also very clear, i guess), then in the 19th century you endured a sharply deteriorating condition (that was also very clear, i guess), hamidian massacres (i won't ask whether these were clear or not), a brief partnership in the young turk regime in which you preferred to keep an ambiguous position), and then your involvement with the russians and the genocide.

 

any gobbledygook you might have endured dates from the post 1915-23 period, when the turkish state systematically denied what happened to your people. as i am sick and tired of repeating my position re the genocide and its denial once more, i won't get into that.

 

you have never endured any gobbledygook regarding the land issue: you had a very clear answer: no. as far as we are concerned there isn't one. you can create one of course, by putting your nation at great peril. the greeks tried it in 1919-22, and then in 150s-1974 (cyprus), and have found out that there are certain lines you just can't cross.

 

as far as you suggestion concerning the expansion of armenian military capability and the get even with us, i say you would be wasting your precious resources for a dubious adventure that will probably cost you more than it isa worth even if you win: it may very well be a pyrrhic victory. as turkey has no eyes on external soil in general and in armenia in particular, you would be wise to keep that in mind and concentrate on your efforts on rebuilding your country and having normalised relations and trade with your nations. who knows? you may even have peace one day.

 

the worst kind of military-bent person is the one who has no military experience or aptitude.

 

cheers,

[MJ]

[aurguplu]

[gamavor]

Dear Friends,

 

Don't forget that Ali is a turk. Honest, but turk.

He sees nothing wrong with the sword, massacre, opression, etc. as long as his anscestors were the authors of these crimes. His excuse? Well, they were turks too, by the will of God.

So if turks occupy lands, impose unhumane conditions on anybody else that is fine. It is regretfull but fine. If someone tries to retalied he is a terrorist or not sane.

Ali is smart but millitary unexperienced.

People learn from their mistakes, ....sometimes!

 

Cheers!

[MJ]

Yes, Ali. Everything you say here, comes across as justification for the Genocide and lack of remorse.

 

And then, it looks like, "now let's make a deal."

 

And the Genocide did not occur in the vacuum. It occurred as a culmination of seven centuries’ of oppression, non-centralized killings, rape, forced conversion, looting, stealing of identity and heritage, and so on.

 

I think you get the idea.

[Boghos]

Dear Ali,

 

It is quite a pity to read your posts having in mind that you are an alumnus of the United World College. I say that because as I probably told you, I am one myself.

 

I realize the merit of your contributions to this forum, which is in any case open to anyone that respect the rules, merit or no merit in their contributions, as far as I understand.

 

But facts are facts. The Armenian Genocide is a fact. Ottoman guilt is not up for discussion. Turkey has to deal with the legacy of the Otomman Empire and its own. And let me tell you the obvious: it is not a very nice one in anybody´s eyes, except for Turkey´s military and its nationalistic-on-the-verge-of-fascist population segment.

 

What we don´t need is someone with the usual inferiority complex manifesting itself as a pretense superior. Oh, wow Turkey is a big country, lots of weapons, fighters (maybe a bit disorganized, judging by what goes on in Afghanistan, but still a force to be reckoned with) Of course Armenia will not engage Turkey militarily. Of course Armenia doesn´t have any demands on Turkish territory. Of course states and peoples behaviour is circumstantial and the future is not set in stone. I suspect that you know all that but you choose to create havoc by misquoting or using diversionary tactics.

 

Quite sad, I must say.