To shave one's face

[Twilight Bark]

Dear Thoth,

 

It pains me to bicker like this, especially when it is thoroughly unwarranted. And it is not a matter of you being "wrong" or I being "right", or whatever. I am treating Nairi as a peer, rather than a fragile little flower. That isn't so terrible is it?

 

And what's with this MJ, Boghos stuff? How did they get dragged into this? If you have a bone with MJ, you can deal with it through e-mail, or perhaps a public virtual duel of some sort . But I was surprised to see you vent those hidden frustrations like that. And could you be kind enough to let me know whom I treated snottily, and why you judged it so? Granted, I don't usually act buddy-buddy, and say such things as "let's go get drunk and sing together", and often have a formal way of writing, I don't snob anyone. While I would be in good company being grouped with MJ and Boghos, I still dislike being lumped with others, especially when it is apparently done to associate me with actions that are not mine.

 

Whatever was crossing your mind when you raised your objection, I want you to know that I still like you and most of your expressed thoughts.

 

TB

[THOTH]

TB -

 

Well sorry I wasn't really trying to offend. I was mostly just playing around (with these last posts) - pulling your collective chains as it were. However my intitial ("don't be mean") comments were heartfelt by me - even if I thought you were making good points and I certainly didn't percieve that Nairi was doing anything but trying to make some sense of some things - and speculating perhaps. So she may have been off the mark in some areas - and you knew better - OK. Doesn't mean that she is necessarily wrong in all cases - we are expressing opinion and attempting to back it up/rationalize...again if you have certain facts/perspective then great - I am finding both of your inputs educational - though I tend to agree that some of her conclusions are questionable - but I'm no expert - but again - no harm in exploring/speculating - and who knows she just may surpise you with something you either weren't aware of or haven't thought of. And I understand that you think she is not approaching the issue academically or whatever - OK - so you point out where she is in error. Thats OK. To me your tone was (overly) patronizing....and though you claim hers was as well...I don't exactly see it that way - but OK - all is certainly within the realm of civil interaction and I had no intention of starting any sort of war or anything. I just felt badly for her due to your tone - thats all. I always find your comments worthwhile - and hers too BTW.

 

As for lumping you and MJ and Boghos...well to me, in general thats pretty good company. (I apoligize though - as you don't want to be "grouped" and I understand that) However I have recently observed (what seems to me) some similarities among all you guys in (negative) attitude of late (you mostly just in this thread...but also with Ali a bit as well...) - and yes I find it a little disturbing and unwarrented (from my perspective) - and I have made my opinion known. You (and others) feel differently I know. But I think you have taken me too harshly - I only meant a mild rebuke - and you disagree - so OK - we disagree. I think I understand why you have taken such a tone with Nairi - but I don't agree regardless (with the extent of negativity in your response). I'm not overly upset - not at all - and it seems you aren't either - so very good! LOL

[THOTH]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Twilight Bark:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Domino:

I think that TB non-friendly approch in explaining you, has not helped a lot.(specifically because of the unfriendly approch and not the explaination itself).

---

Dear Domino,

You are a technically literate person, so you'll appreciate this. Suppose you are solving a nonlinear equation by an iteration method called Friendly Iteration (FI). And after a few iterations your algorithm FI is coming back with the exact same number that you started with. You may reasonably decide that your FI approach has failed, and that perhaps a different approach is warranted. Or, depending on how much time you have available, you may simply utter something "unfriendly" about the problem and walk away. My walking away from the "stuck iteration" problem was disapproved by Thoth. Since he is a nice guy, I gave it another go. I am not sure I achieved "convergence" yet, but I surely depleted my emergency supply of patience.

 

And what is this hooplah about "friendly" and "unfriendly"? The most drastic thing I told Nairi was to take a brief break from "thinking", implying that I didn't think she was thinking straight. Gosh, what a horrendous thing to say! Poor, little, fragile Nairi; she can't take such gross abuse. Come on, what you and Thoth are doing is much more insulting to Nairi than anything I have said so far. Are you going to treat her as a peer or not?

 

Let it go. And re-evaluate.

 

TB

---

OK TB - I see your point. Don't agree (entirely) obviously (but I see what you are saying here)....also don't think we (Domino & I) are insulting Nairi (let us know Nairi if you think that we are...). She is at least trying and is not entirely without intelligence or insight - quite the contrary - she comes up with some very insightful/appropriate commentary most of the time - IMO. However some - such as yourself - on this forum - have a tremendous storehouse of accessable data - in your heads or wherever - and quite impressive reasoning ability - very impressive really - but you must understand that not everyone operates at your level - even smart folks. Sometimes you must give the rest of us some slack (and I know that you often do). Sorry that we are frustrating you so - what can be done? LOL

[Sip]

I think we should all get together and go have some pie one day.

[Twilight Bark]

I don't need to. We are considering an ethnos that always spoke an indoeuropean language to the best of our knowledge, the big Urartuan infusion notwithstanding (but Hayasa predates Urartu, making Urartuan component an "assimilated" one, rather than the "nucleus" of the ethnos). The present language is IE, the linguistic environment in which the "Hay" nation originated was IE. As I said too many times, with no apparent registration on your side, it is meaningless to talk about who adopted what concerning times when an Armenian nation did not exist. I do not understand why you fail to understand a simple concept like that. You are dragging the discussion into an anthropological one, which is not fruitful. We can be fairly certain that the anthropological composition of today's Armenians is significantly different from the nuclear group that first crystallized as the people of Hayasa, not the least because of the later Urartuan component. By such an anthropological definition of "Armenian", there are very few native words in Armenian, because the "other" ancestors probably outnumber those from the original Hayasa-Azzi province. That definition, although somewhat silly, is fine with me, as long as we all know what we are talking about.

 

As an aside, by the same definition, the Turkish spoken in Turkey has very few "native" words, because they are anthropologically almost entirely Anatolian/Near Eastern/Mediterranean, and whose ancestors did not "invent" Turkish. Compared with their case, Armenians have a lot sounder claim to define IE words as native, even with the silly definition we are considering right now.

 

Being "purely Armenian" and "exclusively Armenian" are two very different things. Perhaps you should mull over that a bit.

 

I didn't say you claimed that. I said you seem to be under the impression that Germanic languages are somehow the gold standard with which to compare. In any case, whether those languages have more or less non-IE words than Armenian has nothing to do with whether IE words in Armenian are "native" or not.

 

It had a "linguistically rich" environment, and it reflects that. But I don't know if I would be so ethnocentric and claim that Armenian is so much more special than all the other IE languages, although it would be nice if that were the case.

 

All IE languages have their "unique" characteristics that set them apart from other IE languages. But that has no bearing on whether IE words in Armenian should be defined as "native" or not.

 

What I have trouble with is why you chose to be so patronizing with so little understanding. But you'll grow out of it I am sure.

 

Armenians did not "borrow" PIE, and they did not borrow IE. That is becasue they did not "borrow" the Armenian they spoke at the time of Hayasa. They happened to be speaking whatever they were speaking at the time when the formation of a group called Hayasa-Azzi was precipitated by the political environment.

 

There is no single group that can claim that their ancestors alone were the "inventors" of indoeuropean. It was most likely a lingua-franca used by a variety of ethnic groups, probably all around the perimeter of the Black Sea, when it was a lake, before it got flooded via the Bosporus strait. Such an origin would also explain why there is no credible evidence for the "arrival" of the Armenians or even the Hittites into Anatolia (from east or west anyway).

 

Other people's learning from you can happen at unexpected times, rather than exactly when you think or wish it should happen. And it is more likely to happen when you have something correct to teach. Otherwise it is not "learning" but "misguiding". the time will come for it; let it happen by itself.

[Arpa]

So far:

 

Trashvel: (colloquial) from the Persian tarashidan. It can be used for face, head and body.

 

When we were writing about Drosh/Draush/Flag, it was indicated that there are two spellings, one with vo and the the other with o, and that the one with vo is more commonly used as in "droshm/droshmel"=stamp, brand, impress etc., one of the less prominent uses of "drosh, draush, drafsh" etc. was its use as (Persian)"darayish"=to draw, to etch, and eventually to sculpt, in other words to chisel away as is done in sculpting, to shave(away).

 

Now!

 

Is this why MosJan's face is like Adonis', trashvats, sculpted?

[Proud EXPAT]

I HATE it when Armenians use the word trashvil. It's NOT Armenian.

 

Why can't we just use saprvil/saprvel????

[Arpa]

«Արտա´շ ջան, թրաշդ անո´ւշ էղնի»:

ԵՂՆԻ ? When did the gumretsis start to speak Grabar? Like in ԵՂԻՑԻ ԿԱՄՔ ՔՈ/ Էղնի կամք քո?

You Will notice that the letter Ե sounds like YE only in between two vowels, like when we say "Կողբա Ելան/koghba yelan", but it is pronounced as Է/E between two consonnants.

"թրաշդ անո´ւշ էղնի"

Listen to words and see where the Ե is pronounced as YEH and where as E/Է as in "goghba YELAN" and "al EGHNIM".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OZN8BJWzsc&feature=related

 

 

http://www.armenianow.com/features/28380/armenia_gyumri_barber_shave

 

http://www.armenianow.com/sites/default/files/img/imagecache/600x400/barber-gyumri.jpg

Features | 18.03.11 | 16:03

TRASH? Do they speak English in Gumri?

Please forgive me. That is one of the best/worst samples of rabiz/rubbish/trash talk. When will we learn to speak Armenian??

BTW. The word seems to of Persian origin as my dictionary does not qualify it as being furkish. تراش

T’rash’d anush: A visit with Gyumri’s master blade man

 

NAZIK ARMENAKYAN

ArmeniaNow

By Gayane Mkrtchyan

ArmeniaNow reporter

Barber Hendo, after spraying ‘eau-de-cologne’, cools the face of a client by waving a white cloth, and says, “Artash jan, t’rash’d anush eghni” (literally meaning “Dear Artash, hope you enjoyed the shave”).

He carefully collects the hair on the floor with a broom before the next client sits on the barber’s chair.

Master Hendo is one of passing breed from the old school style when barbers used straight razors. Hendo still does, for clients who visit his small Soviet-era shop in the of Gyumri bus station. “My job has no future. I have trained three students, who never managed to master this job. They do haircuts, but cannot shave. There are very good tools now which ease the hairdressing process, but shaving is harder,” says 55-year-old Hendo (Henrik Hakobyan), and continues, “A master’s hand must be skillful, soft and fast.” A regular customer pops his head inside: “Aren’t you finished? I will be late.” “Melo, wait, I must finish with Hamo first, you will come later. Why did you come and make a noise here?” Hendo replies. Most of his clients are drivers of the bus station. Hendo asks the same amount of money for both shaving or cutting hair – 500 drams (about $1.40). Many drivers from Yerevan (who often drive to Gyumri) are also Hendo’s clients. Hendo’s razor is 20 years old. He does not take the modern-brand razors ‘Gillette’ and ‘Bic’ seriously. “The straight razor shaves more cleanly, than those ‘gillettes’. Gillette is a triple-blade razor. So it cannot cut side-whiskers equally,” he explains. Hendo, with a painter’s professionalism, puts shaving foam on driver Melo’s face with the help of a thick brush. And then he starts the shave, a two-step process. “I clean the thinner hair the second time. This time I shave backwards. Hair grows this way, so we move the razor the other way to clean everything,” Hendo explains. Hendo adjusted a self made head-set to his old armchair. “The modern ones [barber’s chairs] are not good, they fall apart in a year,” says the master, who has 30 years of experience in hairdressing. Hendo remembers with nostalgia the Soviet Leninakan (modern Gyumri) with its unique traditions. “Artash used to sit [on the barber’s armchair] and after getting up he would give both his and the next client’s – Aram’s fee. Aram stood up and paid again both for him and the next client, even though his fee had already been paid. It was a kind of tradition, but now people cannot afford doing it. I have shaved four people since this morning, but only one of them paid me, whereas the other three paid by ‘autumn barley’ [on credit]. Life in Gyumri is so hard that it is already a kind of tradition to pay on credit,” says the barber. “The earthquake broke Gyumri’s back, and then the collapse of the Soviet Union burnt people… Our government stupidly sold factories and the new owners said that the factories belong to them, so they can do with them whatever they want to do. Hence, they destroyed factories and sold them, as a scrap metal they gave part of it to Turks and the rest – to Iranians. Now they want to recover everything, but now millions are needed,” he says. High prices are topics of heated discussions among the barber and his clients. According to Hendo’s sociological data, 20 percent of Gyumri’s population is rich men. “And this year those 20 percent [of rich people] will become even richer. As for those poor people, they will become ‘live corpses’. Life became very difficult. People are afraid of even seeing a doctor. They prefer lying at their houses, than turn to a doctor. Gyumretsis are scared, they have even more diseases than organs,” Hendo jokes. Someone’s head again appear in the doorway, “Hendo jan, aren’t you finished?” “Be patient, man, I will call you,” Hendo says and goes on smiling. Exhibiting the sharp humor for which Gyumretsis are famous, Hendo recalls some “close shaves”. “You know, when it happens that I cut somebody’s face, I ask him to leave through the back entrance, so that people do not see him and do not say that Hendo is not a good master. “One day I cut one of the driver’s - Tiko’s – chin. In Yerevan his friends saw him and asked why he had been skimping on his payments. They said he’d better pay Hendo 500 drams, and he [Hendo] would shave properly. And Tiko replied, ‘Guys, he cut my face, took my money and asked to leave through the back!’,” Hendo jokes. When the master keeps silent, the silence is filled with the sound of blade against beard. Again a client’s head appears in the doorway, “Hendo jan, may I come in now?” Barber Hendo, after spraying the aftershave, cools the face of a client by waving a white cloth completing the latest in more shaves than he can remember. “T’rash’d anush eghni, akhper jan”. (My dear brother, may your shave be good). Then: “Next . . .”

http://www.armenianow.com/features/28380/armenia_gyumri_barber_shave

Edited March 19, 2011 by Arpa