Secular? Turkey?

[Arpa]

Swcular? Or is it sikiler?

Secular? My foot!. Does that mean murdering people for owning Bibles?

The Turks are doing an excellent job burying themselves in their own lies. They don’t need our help, thank you, except that, hopefully when they finally bury themselves we will be the ones to throw the first shovelful of DIRT.

Note that Gul’s wife and daughter wear that “Islamic scarf”.

Below, from CNN .

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/04/29/turkey.election/

Gul defiant as secular Turks rally

POSTED: 4:41 a.m. EDT, April 30, 2007

Story Highlights

• Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul vows to continue campaign for presidency

• At least 700,000 secular Turks gather in anti-government protests in Istanbul

• Friday's statement by military chiefs condemned by government, EU, U.S.

• Gul's candidacy has raised fears about threat to Turkey's secular political order

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ANKARA, Turkey (CNN) -- Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul has vowed to continue in his bid to become the country's next president despite opposition from lawmakers, business leaders and military chiefs and a massive public demonstration in Istanbul on Sunday.

Gul's nomination, supported by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has raised concerns among Turkey's secular establishment over growing Islamist influence within government.

In a parliamentary vote on Friday, Gul fell short of the two-thirds majority necessary to be elected after opposition lawmakers boycotted the process and called on Turkey's constitutional court to render it void.

On Friday evening military chiefs said in a statement they could intervene if the election process threatened to undermine Turkish secularism.

But Gul told reporters on Sunday: "It is out of the question to withdraw my candidacy. The Constitutional Court will make the right decision."

Influential business leaders expressed their dissatisfaction with the government on Sunday in a statement which called for early elections to "protect secularism and democracy," The Associated Press reported.

The statement by business group TUSIAD said: "The indivisible integrity of secularism and democracy lays the foundations of the Turkish republic, a sacrifice of one for the other is unthinkable. Turkey can healthily emerge from this process by lowering tensions and renewing the will of the nation."

On Sunday at least 700,000 demonstrators gathered in Istanbul, Turkey's largest city, to protest against Erdogan's Islamist-influenced government in defense of the country's secular political traditions, The Associated Press reported. Local media estimated that around one million people took part.

"Turkey is secular and will remain secular," flag-waving protesters shouted as they demanded the resignation of the government and called Erdogan a traitor.

Others chanted: "The roads to Cankaya (the presidential palace) are closed to imams."

"This government is the enemy of Ataturk," said 63-year-old Ahmet Yurdakul, a retired public worker, invoking the memory of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the founded of the modern Turkish republic. "They want to drag Turkey to the dark ages."

The rally was the second anti-government demonstration in two weeks after around 300,000 people gathered in the capital, Ankara, a fortnight ago.

"Neither Sharia, nor coup but fully democratic Turkey," read a banner carried by a demonstrator, in reference to Friday's statement by the military which attracted condemnation Saturday by Turkey's government as well from the European Union, the U.S. and human rights groups.

Justice Minister Cemil Cicek said Erdogan had spoken to Turkey's top general, Yasar Buyukanit, adding that the military statement was "not acceptable in a democratic order."

"The chief of the General Staff is answerable to the Prime Minister," Cicek said, AP reported.

 

EU expresses concern

In Brussels, EU enlargement chief Olli Rehn said it was watching events in Ankara with concern, Reuters reported.

"It is important that the military leaves the remit of democracy to the democratically elected government and this is a test case if the Turkish armed forces respect democratic secularism and the democratic arrangement of civil-military relations," said Rehn.

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Dan Fried called for democracy to be respected: "We hope and expect that the Turks will work out these political issues in their own way, in a way that's consistent with their secular democracy and constitutional provisions."

Turkish human rights campaigners also condemned the statement by the army, which has ousted four governments in the past 50 years -- most recently in 1997 when it overthrew an Islamist-influenced government in which Gul and Erdogan served.

"The statement has damaged our country's democracy and our state of law," said the Ankara-based Human Rights Association.

Mehmet Agar, leader of the center-right opposition True Path Party, told reporters: "Turkey's problems must be solved by civilian politics."

But some protesters on Sunday expressed support for the army's stance, AP said.

"In a country like Turkey, which is not fully a democracy, the role of the army is a little different," said 50-year-old civil engineer Haydar Kilic. "The army here likes democracy, we know that."

Mehmet Gunes, 39, whose wife (and daughter) was wearing an Islamic-style headscarf, said: "We support what the army said. It's a warning. My wife wears a headscarf -- we're not against that. We came here to stand up for a secular, enlightened Turkey. Our children's future is important."

 

Emergency talks

Erdogan and Gul held emergency talks on Saturday following Gul's failure by 10 votes to secure his election in Friday's parliamentary session.

Parliament members are slated to vote a second time next Wednesday. A two-thirds majority again will be needed to elect a president in the second round. If voting goes to a third round a simple majority will do.

Opposition lawmakers want Erdogan, who leads the Justice and Development Party, to call an early general election instead, according to journalist Andrew Finkel in Ankara.

The probability that Gul, whose wife wears the traditional Muslim head scarf, will become the president -- possibly bolstering the role of religion in politics -- has caused unease in the vastly secular nation.

"We don't want a covered woman in Ataturk's presidential palace," said Ayse Bari, a 67-year-old housewife, during Sunday's protests, AP reported. "We want civilized, modern people there."

"They have to hear us, because we are the majority of the country. We are 70 percent," said Emine Hacioglu, 35.

-- CNN's Talia Kayali in Atlanta and journalist Andrew Finkel in Ankara contributed to this report.

Copyright 2007

Edited April 30, 2007 by Arpa

[Zartonk]

A reported million marched in defense of secularism. That's 1/60 of the population. Most of the remaining percentage are still quite Muslim. This is "the good march", but only if the public was really as secular as the republic.

[Arpa]

A reported million marched in defense of secularism. That's 1/60 of the population. Most of the remaining percentage are still quite Muslim. This is "the good march", but only if the public was really as secular as the republic.

Don’t underestimate that 1/60. See the latest developments where scores have been killed.

Remember that the mighty SU was brought down by a mere 1/1000. Not to forget that its immediate demise was caused by those so called riots in Yerevan where the long banned Yeraguyn, the Karmir, Kapuyt Tsirani :ap: was defiantly hoisted.

I have pictures of that. Yet some of my "friends" said that the third color(another lighter shade of karmir) was defiantly and treacherously made to look less red, i.e Tsirani.

I have a flag of thatKarmir, Kapuyt ev Karmor bought at the Vernisage, ehen the vendor scolded me for wanting to buy that "anitsyal droshak". I explained to her that, there are so many Karmir, Kapuyt Tsirani but a flag with Karmir, Kapuyt ev Karmir will be a reminder of our dark days, and our victory over it.

Edited May 1, 2007 by Arpa

[Armenak]

Arpa, you forgot to include the Turkish <_< word for secular: Sekular.

[Zartonk]

Yeah, like the word for culture: kultur.

[Arpa]

Arpa, you forgot to include the Turkish <_< word for secular: Sekular.

Don't you see my headline topic "si*iler"?

[Arpa]

Yeah, like the word for culture: kultur.

Don't you mean "si*iltur"?

[Stormig]

That begs the question - what ARE the English words for secular and culture?

[Arpa]

Remember these days.

What the heck do we care you may say?

To not forget tat Armenia is a ME country, or in the least only a few miles away.

Look what is happening. Ms. Rice is sitting in the same room with officers of those “rogue/terrorist nation” like Syria and Iran. Above we saw how 1 million so called “sikiler” Turks are demonstrating. And now so called “sikiler” Israelis are demanding the resignation of their PM, heaping all their failures on one person, when little they know that their failure is not the fault of one person but an eventual, long overdue correction of current history, a history that assigned those two bullies of the ME as “peacemakers”. The world may finally have come to realized that those “camel jockeys” only ride their camels as touristic attractions while they drive Humvees and BMWs.

Is this the beginning of the end of that rotten Judeo-Ottoman empire?

It may be time that Me. Rice unlearn the Turkish and Hebrew languages and start learning Arabic and Farsi. Or, how about an accelerated course in Armenian??!!

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Israelis rally to oust Olmert

Story Highlights

• Demonstrators rally in Tel Aviv demanding Olmert's resignation

• Tzipi Livni says Olmert should make "personal decision" to resign

• Report said Olmert handled the war with Lebanon badly

JERUSALEM (AP) -- A mass rally in Tel Aviv is expected to draw tens of thousands of demonstrators calling for the embattled Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, to resign.

The campaign for Olmert's ouster shifted to the streets Thursday, with opponents calling for the

Find this article at:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/03/israel.protest.ap

Edited May 3, 2007 by Arpa

[Armenak]

That begs the question - what ARE the English words for secular and culture?

Nice try.