TURKEY, THE BIRD

[Arpa]

I was talking with someone of Italian heritage. The conversation turned into cuisine and we were comparing words describing different meats. We talked about beef, mutton, pork, chicken and finally about turkey. We got stuck since they could not remember what Italians call the bird. Fortunately I have a sizable Italian English/Eng-Italian dictionary. I opened it and my eyes virtually fell out of their sockets.

I have seen many explanations as to why the bird is called turkey, the most common being that its tassles are reminiscent of the red fez. This seems to be accepted by most. When I saw that the Italians call the bird "tacchino"(male)(pr. takkino) and "tacchina"(female) lights lit up and sirens rang.

Could an abbreviated form of the word "tacchi" (pronounced takki) be the basis for the English word?

In the meantime, this subject comes up during every Thanksgiving. I had observed that most of the languages that I am somewhat familiar with that poor dumb bird is called either something derogatory or at least given some alien sounding name.

The Arabs call it "habash" to denote Ehtiopia/Abyssinia. The French call it dindon (from India), many other languages make this distinction including the Armenian-"hndkahav"(Indian bird).

I ran a simple search about the origin of the word "tacchino" and look what I got;

http://www.emich.edu/~linguist/issues/7/7-174.html

[Boghos]

Dear Arpa,

 

Let's make things a tad more interesting. In Portuguese, turkey is "peru".

[Arpa]

Yes, I did notice that which again begs the question: Whys is that bird so disdained that everybody ascribes it to an alien culture.

Another thing that makes me doubt that bird had anything to do with the countrey Turkey is the fact that turkey is a native American bird and it was spread to Europe from there which had to be after Columbus, in the least. In fact the pilgrims saw it at Plymouth for the first time.

[Boghos]

The scientific name of the wild turkey is meleagris gallopavo. In Spanish, turkey is "pavo". As Arpa has already said in French it is "dinde" which points to the same ethymology as a number of other languages including Armenian, Turkish.

 

It is interesting however that among three important romance languages: French, Spanish and Portuguese languages the origins for "turkey" are clearly different.

 

Nice trivia question is: what country has the same name as a bird in one language, whereas the same bird is the name of a country in another ? I am sure that those that are better versed in English than me could write this in a nicer way.

[aurguplu]

re turkey

 

the bird was originally called "turkey cock" in english and did have something to do with us by some extension:

 

i think the story was something like a muslim corsair ship getting caught in the mediterranean and having a cargo of these birds which were originally imported from the americas or something like that.

 

in turkish the bird is called "hindi", and that either means that it came from india (which we know it didn't) or more probably has something to do with the confusion arising from the misidentification of the americas as india.

[Arpa]

That is exactly it as it is a fact that Columbus' intent to go west to get to the east(he knew about the roundness of the earth) sincerely thought that he had arrived in India, hence the erroneous appellation of the Native American as American Indian, Amerind or simply "indian".

I still find it fascinating the Italian word "tacchino/na". I have not been able to ascertain its etymology, it may as well be a "turkey and the egg" situation, i.e either "turkey" was a coruption of tacchino or visa versa.

I have been asking this for a long time and as yet I have to get a convincing answer; Why is that that poor dumb bird is so disdained that nobody owns up to it, everybody, in all the languages ascribe it to an exotic alien land. Why, for example the Americans don't call it America(n bird) as it is native American and was first seen there. What is it so deprecating about the bird that people find it difficult to identify with?

BTW. Glad to inform you that that beautiful bird(wild) has made a welcome comeback in my neck of the woods so much so that they even graze at my backyard.

PS. We also knew the bird as "julukh", obviously an onomatopoeic word. Here are some colloquial Armenian synonyms("hav" means bird);

hndkahav, hndouhav, hndkaqaghagh (cock), jurjur, kourkour, gorel, jolok, koulkoul, msrahav (Egyptian), qelqel, and jullukh.

 

As you can see most of them are based on sound.

 

What a "gobble-di-gook!!

[SAS]

Im electronayin anglo-ruseren "ABBYY Lingvo" baran@ targmanum e "turkey"

 

1.mattress

 

2.dim-wit, block-head, dolt, dunce

 

3.a nobody, nonentity

 

4.sluggish( slow, slow-moving, indolent, tardy) man

 

Hetaqrqir e, bari ays imastneri arajacum@ ardyunq e yevropacineri verbermunqin handep turqer@, te iskapes aydpisin en yeghel?

[nairi]

SAS,

 

This is what it says in the Dutch Van Dale (=Webster) for Turk, after inhabitant of Turkey:

 

And in the Penguin Dictionary of Proverbs (1983), among a few other proverbs there's also this one:

 

[nairi]

But maybe the definition of "turkey" in your sense has to do with the bird's behavior. "Turkey" also means a flop or failure. Is it because the poor bird with the foreign name is a dunce?

[Arpa]

Above we saw why that bird is known by so many different names by so many different people.

I didn't know that the bird is amember of the broader family of Pheasants.

---

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Fz7UvChu8sE/TO2bMuiBJWI/AAAAAAAAB4w/nDVgdTXfhSY/s400/turkey.jpg

Observe here the reproduction from an Aztec drawing;

http://www.wildturkeyzone.com/wildturkey/aztec.jpg

 

http://www.wildturkeyzone.com/wildturkey/species.htm

 

Note that Columbus named the bird “tuka/ tukki” without the R, unlike the Bostonians who call the (automobile) “car“ - “cah“.

Some say Christopher Columbus named turkeys "tuka," the Tamil word for peacock. Considering Columbus thought he was in India at the time of the alleged naming, not in the New World where he actually was, this definition seems fairly plausible. Another suggestion is that Luis de Torres, a physician who served under Columbus, named the bird "tukki," which translates to "big bird" in Hebrew. Some say the North American Indians called the bird "firkee."** If so, it's a word everyone else has mispronounced the past 508 years.

In 1519, Cortez and his fellow Spanish Conquistadors had found the Aztecs raising huexolotlin around their homes. The Aztec emperor, Montezuma, kept the turkeys in his famous zoo, it is said, as food for the other

**Now do you see why I call that land “furkey”??

------

 

The Spaniards soon carried the savored "el pavo" back to Europe where they quickly became a popular fowl and a choice dish for state dinners. The turkey was little larger than the traditional goose, with a lot more meat and a refreshingly new taste. These exotic birds were introduced at a time when America was called The Spanish Indies or the New Indies, illustrating the confusion in people's minds about the true location of this new land that Columbus had found. As a result, the Spaniards mistakenly called them "Indian fowl." As the Indian fowl was eventually acquired and raised throughout Europe and Asia, many languages, as well as others like Arabic and Hebrew, called the "Indian fowl" names like the "bird of India."

In 1530, English merchants trading out of that area of the eastern Mediterranean called the Levant but whom the English called "Turkey merchants" because that whole area was then part of the Turkish empire. The "Indian fowl" was served to and enjoyed by all. The English mistakenly named this fowl a "Turkey bird", or "Turkey cock".

 

Gobble gobble to you too.

Let’s…

talk furkey

to discuss a problem seriously with the intention of solving it The session was businesslike, and according to one official, “They talked turkey.”

----

What does “Cold turkey” mean?;

There are several explanations of the phrase's origin:

A narrowing of the meaning "suddenly or without preparation", from cold turkey being a dish that requires little preparation; originally used for heroin addicts.[3]

From the American phrase talk turkey meaning "to speak bluntly with little preparation".[4]

Some[who?] believe the derivation is from the comparison of a cold turkey carcass and the state of a withdrawing addict — most notably, the cold sweats and goose bumps. [4]

The phrase "Cold Turkey" is commonly used but the origins are now verified[citation needed] recent revelations have uncovered that the phrase was born after the Christmas/Thanksgiving holidays where alcohol consumption rose - the end of the leftover cold turkey from the family dinners signalled the end of excessive alcohol intake

 

 

All that gobbledygook about why the bird was named so in the English language, that it was named so for its red (fez-like) facial feature is nothing but “furkey droppings” . Why would a native American bird, that Europe did not know about until the 16th century named so??

Observe the red-fez face here;

http://www.northrup.org/photos/turkey/black-white-turkey%20(3).htm

 

We assume that the Armenian name “հնդկահաւ/hndkahav”, just as in many other language means the bird from modern day India. See below. It was named so based on the fact that it was a native American(Aztec) bird, that Columbus and others confused America with India. Therefore when we name the bird such we are referring to ancient (pre-Columbian) America.

 

 

At times we called that bird “ճուլուխ/jullukh” , obviously an բնաձայն/ onomatopoeic word and we assumed it was from that other language.

Some synonyms-

 

ՀՆԴԿԱՀԱՒ- Հնդուհաւ, հնդկաքաղաղ, ճուրճուր, ճուռճուռ, գորել, ճոլոկ, կուլկուլ, կուռկուռ, մսրահաւ, քելքել, ՃՈՒԼՈՒԽ

 

My apologies forx the length of thze article below. We have already seen the relevant highlights.

 

Ancient North & Central American History of the Wild Turkey

 

15th Century Aztec Drawing of a Wild Turkey

 

There are two types of wild turkey, both of which are strong fliers (up to 55 mph for short distances) and among the fastest runners (15-30 mph). One type is originally from Yucatan and Guatemala (Agriocharis ocellata; family - Phasianidae) and the other is from Mexico and the US (Meleagris gallopavo; family -Phasianidae). Fossil records have shown they were once much more widespread. They diverged from pheasants 11 million years ago and were likely distributed continuously from middle latitudes of North America to northern South America during the Pleistocene.

Turkey (Meleagris gallopavo), or "huexolotlin" in the ancient language of the Aztecs in Mexico was one of the first animals in the Americas to be domesticated. The Aztecs in Mexico considered "huexolotlin" so important, they dedicated two religious festivals a year to the birds. During the celebration, turkey eggshells which had been saved for months were strewn upon the streets to honor the god who favored them with such a plentiful source of food. The turkey was also one of the manifestations of Tezcatlipoca, the trickster god, who had been elevated to the highest position in the Aztec polytheistic pantheon. All year round, it was not uncommon for over 1000 turkeys a day to be sold in a busy Aztec market. There is evidence that turkeys and were kept in pens for their plumage. The natives used turkey feathers for necklaces, head adornments, and arrows.

Appreciation for the turkey was also evident in the Mayan culture where parts of the bird were used in sacred ceremonies. Its popularity among other tribes grew, and the turkey population had spread far beyond Mexico by the time the first European explorers set foot there.

In North America, tribes like the Navajo first encountered wild turkeys after they had trouble keeping the hungry birds away from the scanty crops they had scratched out of the desert. Losing the battle to bar them from the cornfields, they decided instead to feed the turkeys and fence them in. By barging in and refusing to leave, the invading turkeys unwittingly provided a controlled source of protein and ornamental feathers. Instead of pests, they became symbols of friendship and providence.

The Eastern turkey subspecies, Meleagris gallopavo silvestris, spread to the Northeast where nomadic Indians did not bother to domesticate the bird who enjoyed the abundant vegetation and thrived without agricultural welfare. Tribes like the Wampanoags hunted wild turkeys with bows and arrows. The turkeys were "called up" by imitating their calls, and then grabbed by a child hiding behind some logs or in a pit, or shot with bow and arrow.

Some say Christopher Columbus named turkeys "tuka," the Tamil word for peacock. Considering Columbus thought he was in India at the time of the alleged naming, not in the New World where he actually was, this definition seems fairly plausible. Another suggestion is that Luis de Torres, a physician who served under Columbus, named the bird "tukki," which translates to "big bird" in Hebrew. Some say the North American Indians called the bird "firkee." If so, it's a word everyone else has mispronounced the past 508 years.

In 1519, Cortez and his fellow Spanish Conquistadors had found the Aztecs raising huexolotlin around their homes. The Aztec emperor, Montezuma, kept the turkeys in his famous zoo, it is said, as food for the other animals. Cortez might have been served turkey mole poblano (mole of the people.) Turkey mole poblano is traditionally prepared with chocolate and chile.

The Spaniards soon carried the savored "el pavo" back to Europe where they quickly became a popular fowl and a choice dish for state dinners. The turkey was little larger than the traditional goose, with a lot more meat and a refreshingly new taste. These exotic birds were introduced at a time when America was called The Spanish Indies or the New Indies, illustrating the confusion in people's minds about the true location of this new land that Columbus had found. As a result, the Spaniards mistakenly called them "Indian fowl." As the Indian fowl was eventually acquired and raised throughout Europe and Asia, many languages, as well as others like Arabic and Hebrew, called the "Indian fowl" names like the "bird of India."

In 1530, English merchants trading out of that area of the eastern Mediterranean called the Levant but whom the English called "Turkey merchants" because that whole area was then part of the Turkish empire. The "Indian fowl" was served to and enjoyed by all. The English mistakenly named this fowl a "Turkey bird", or "Turkey cock". To compound the difficulties the English had with this immigrant fowl, at about the same time, the 1530s, Portuguese merchants reintroduced the guinea-fowl from West Africa, which had last been seen in England at the time of the Romans. As it was the same Levant merchants who brought this into the country, the guinea fowl was also known for a time as the "Turkey bird", though this confusion didn't last long. For example, the heraldic arms granted to William Strickland in 1550 featured "a turkey-bird in his pride proper" and the bird shown is quite definitely a proper turkey.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Arpa

[HijodeGagos]

The scientific name of the wild turkey is meleagris gallopavo. In Spanish, turkey is "pavo". As Arpa has already said in French it is "dinde" which points to the same ethymology as a number of other languages including Armenian, Turkish.

 

It is interesting however that among three important romance languages: French, Spanish and Portuguese languages the origins for "turkey" are clearly different.

 

Nice trivia question is: what country has the same name as a bird in one language, whereas the same bird is the name of a country in another ? I am sure that those that are better versed in English than me could write this in a nicer way.

 

I grew up using the word "guajolote" for turkey, which is a Mexican Spanish term taken from the Nahuatl "huexolotl," meaning apparently "large monster." Although I'm not familiar with the Nahuatl language and my source is hardly peer-reviewed.

[Arpa]

Once again we are the threshold of the Holiday Season. Tomorrow Thursday will be the Day of Thanksgiving, followed by Black Friday, perhaps an unfortunate name? In fact it means “black” as in profit v “red” as in loss.

If only I could be an Aztec Emperor for a day! My ardent wish is, has always been that this Holiday not be called by the “furkey” name of that noble bird.

When we were young we were urged to call Thanksgiving Day Փառաբանութեան Օր/Day of Praise.

 

See #10 above.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Arpa

[Yervant1]

Once again we are the threshold of the Holiday Season. Tomorrow Thursday will be the Day of Thanksgiving, followed by Black Friday, perhaps an unfortunate name? In fact it means “black” as in profit v “red” as in loss.

If only I could be an Aztec Emperor for a day! My ardent wish is, has always been that this Holiday not be called by the “furkey” name of that noble bird.

When we were young we were urged to call Thanksgiving Day Փառաբանութեան Օր/Day of Praise.

 

See #10 above.

I declare you the Arpa Emperor for one day!