52%

[Takoush]

Don't know which Armenian families from which Armenian communities you're talking about, but other than the one in Armenia, every one I've been to treats women as equals -- from Lebanon to Canada to San Francisco (Western Armenians) to France. (I haven't been to Iran, so I can't speak of it; Iranian-Armenian women do seem to be on the dominant side in the relationships in the U.S. though, perhaps hinting at an "emancipation" when coming to the U.S.)

 

(Լիբանանահայ կիներուն շատերը նոյնիսկ in-home սբասուհի/սբասուհիներ կ'ուենան, եւ ոմանք թագուհիի մը վայելած կեանքէն պակաս չէն ապրիր...)

Shahan; I am speaking mostly about the Armenians from Armenia. Specifically what I read in here they say that they treat their women very harshly, btw; beatings, severe beatings and in some cases even burning hands, etc. etc. etc. Now I am not saying all of the Hayasdancis are like that, of course not. But the majority (which means 60% or more) of women are mistreated by their men. "Shad kesh vijag".

 

If we speak about the diasporan Armenians, the older generation; some carried their ancient ways towards their families. Which meant the women were subservient to men and thus regarded as second class citizens. But eventually that wore off and of course the newer generation do not treat their wives or their little girls any different than themselves or the men in their life.

 

{Ի միչի այլոց, ես ալ Եգիպտահայ եմ եւ Եգիպտահայերն ալ շատերը իրենց տանը սպասուհիներ կունենային: Սակայն ես Ամերիկայ կապրիմ ժամանակէ մը ի վեր եւ բայց երբէք չեմ բաբաքիր տանը սպասուհի ունենալ: Կը հաւատամ այն ասաձուածքին, "Թէ մարդ իր տանը թէ ծառան եւ թէ (աղան) կամ Հայերէնով (տէրն ու տիրականը) պէտք է ըլլայ}:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[Takoush]

I wish I had a daughter

 

Ed, Btw; when your son one day says to you (papa I am getting married), you will then surely gain a lucky and a beautiful daughter.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[Takoush]

come to my home and I'm not Hayastant-si, I'm Hye who happens to come from Hayastan, Hayastana-Hye

And since you are a good cook and a great husband, then you are one of those Hayastancis that are very special men who treat their women like gold! Right?

 

[Arpa]

Do you guys know what մարրդակերութիւն/cannibalism is?

It is, when one cannot bite the real enemy, will bite their next of kin. When one cannot "fight city hall" will fight their own loved ones.

It is manifested in animals when they are restricted to high stress and frustration.

When onoe's masculinity, manhood is challenged, when one, as a man, a husband and father cannot provide, one turns on the next person in sight, i.e their spouses or children.

When one cannot fight Ankara will creat fights between Hnchak, Dashnak and Ramkavar. When one cannot fight the Turk will create fights between Yerevan, Beirut and Glendale.

Day after day it is manifested in ghetos where black will prey on black, when Armenian, who cannot bite the real enemy, will prey on Armenian, and so on.

Edited June 24, 2007 by Arpa

[Takoush]

I see what you're saying Arpa. In other words the men are poor and stressed out with the corrupted higher up regime in Armenia, and the men being the stronger gender are abusing their women. That is sad, very sad. But why take it out on the weaker gender? It still seems extremely unfair and a diplorable state of affairs.

 

Though at this point it cannot be helped until the corrupted regime starts wearing off and becoming less and less, so that the poor will start becoming lower middle class, then middle class etc. etc. Until economy becomes better and the corruption hopefully starts diminishing.

 

I hope and pray that we'll see that day!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[Anoushik]

But the majority (which means 60% or more) of women are mistreated by their men.

Where did you get that statistic?

[Takoush]

Where did you get that statistic?

Right in here. It was I believe in a topic in reference to Armenia's women being grossly abused, say about 60% or so.

 

[ED]

QUOTE

A recent sociological survey says 60 per cent of Armenian men and 83 percent of women are in favor of having women in politics. The percentages have tripled since a similar report five years ago.

 

 

 

Anahid,

 

read the post by Arpa again, if this is your referance then I would say you missread and missunderstood

Edited June 25, 2007 by Edward

[Shahan Araradian]

Do you guys know what մարրդակերութիւն/cannibalism is?

It is, when one cannot bite the real enemy, will bite their next of kin. When one cannot "fight city hall" will fight their own loved ones.

It is manifested in animals when they are restricted to high stress and frustration.

When onoe's masculinity, manhood is challenged, when one, as a man, a husband and father cannot provide, one turns on the next person in sight, i.e their spouses or children.

When one cannot fight Ankara will creat fights between Hnchak, Dashnak and Ramkavar. When one cannot fight the Turk will create fights between Yerevan, Beirut and Glendale.

Day after day it is manifested in ghetos where black will prey on black, when Armenian, who cannot bite the real enemy, will prey on Armenian, and so on.

Arpa,

You tend to mix different issues together.

 

Talking about domestic abuse among Հայաստանահայs does not mean we are "fighting" Հայաստանահայs. This isn't a war of us vs. them. This is addressing real problems with real people. And it seems to be a cultural issue more than anything. And yes, Հայաստանահայ culture is different in some aspects than Western Armenian culture (e.g. Lebanon or Canada) and sometimes different from Իրանահայ culture -- and, obviously, there are similarities in common between all of the above, too, such as a shared history and language.

[Shahan Araradian]

Shahan; I am speaking mostly about the Armenians from Armenia. Specifically what I read in here they say that they treat their women very harshly, btw; beatings, severe beatings and in some cases even burning hands, etc. etc. etc. Now I am not saying all of the Hayasdancis are like that, of course not. But the majority (which means 60% or more) of women are mistreated by their men. "Shad kesh vijag".

I see. Յստակ չէիր գրութեանդ մէջ: Շնոր. բացատրութեանդ համար:

 

If we speak about the diasporan Armenians, the older generation; some carried their ancient ways towards their families. Which meant the women were subservient to men and thus regarded as second class citizens. But eventually that wore off and of course the newer generation do not treat their wives or their little girls any different than themselves or the men in their life.

Yes. In terms of cooking and raising the kids... But not in terms of violence towards them as a cultural phenomenon!

 

{Ի միչի այլոց, ես ալ Եգիպտահայ եմ եւ Եգիպտահայերն ալ շատերը իրենց տանը սպասուհիներ կունենային: Սակայն ես Ամերիկայ կապրիմ ժամանակէ մը ի վեր եւ բայց երբէք չեմ բաբաքիր տանը սպասուհի ունենալ: Կը հաւատամ այն ասաձուածքին, "Թէ մարդ իր տանը թէ ծառան եւ թէ (աղան) կամ Հայերէնով (տէրն ու տիրականը) պէտք է ըլլայ}:

Ես ալ չէի ուզէր տունին մէջ ապրող սպասուհի ունենալ (բացի եթէ շատ գեղեցիկ է՝ անշուշտ... ): Բայց այդ մէկը անձնական որոշում է...

 

Ի՞նչ է կարծիքդ «robot» ունենալու տունին մէջ, ինչպէս այս մէկը: Կարծեմ թէ $120,000ի կը ծախուիկոր եւ ապագային փոքր ինքնաշարժի գինով պիտի ծախուի եւ «անձնական ծառայ»ի ոեւէ գործերը պիտի կատարէ:

Edited June 25, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[karnoug]

I see. Յստակ չէիր գրութեանդ մէջ: Շնոր. բացատրութեանդ համար:

Yes. In terms of cooking and raising the kids... But not in terms of violence towards them as a cultural phenomenon!

Ես ալ չէի ուզէր տունին մէջ ապրող սպասուհի ունենալ (բացի եթէ շատ գեղեցիկ է՝ անշուշտ... ): Բայց այդ մէկը անձնական որոշում է...

 

Ի՞նչ է կարծիքդ «robot» ունենալու տունին մէջ, ինչպէս այս մէկը: Կարծեմ թէ $120,000ի կը ծախուիկոր եւ ապագային փոքր ինքնաշարժի գինով պիտի ծախուի եւ «անձնական ծառայ»ի ոեւէ գործերը պիտի կատարէ:

you guys are funny...what a different scope of subjects!

[Harut]

zamalchi!!! zhenshina!!!

[Takoush]

yeah well..... ALLAH OU AKBAR YA HA&*&^^*U&*&*..... kezi.!!!!!!!!

[Takoush]

Anahid,

 

read the post by Arpa again, if this is your referance then I would say you missread and missunderstood

No it wasn't on this thread. I never misunderstand!

 

Ed, it was on a different thread. I meant to say it was on this Forum; but not on this particular thread.

 

If memory serves me right it was either on Armenia's or Artsax's thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[Yervant1]

If I'm not mistaken this is the thread you guys are talking about.

 

ARMENIA'S SILENT VICTIMS

By Gayane Abrahamian in Yerevan and Gavar

 

A1+

[12:17 pm] 20 December, 2006

 

Thousands of women endure beatings, lacking the means to protect

themselves.

 

Almost half of Armenia's women have suffered domestic abuse, say

researchers, yet this disturbing problem is being hushed up because

of traditional attitudes.

 

"Armenian women suffer violence, but they are afraid and keep silent,

as they don't believe that anything can be done about it," said

Consuelo Vidal, United Nations resident coordinator in Armenia at

the launch of a 16-day programme Campaign Against Gender Violence

that continues until December 16.

 

For 13 years, Hasmik Hakobian has been married to a man from a

traditional Armenian family in the town of Gavar around 100 kilometres

from Yerevan.

 

She was just nineteen when her father married her off to a young man,

whom she'd only ever seen from the window of her house.

 

"I have a black eye permanently so the neighbours have long stopped

asking me what the matter is," said Hasmik. "Happiness for me means

not being beaten and blood not gushing from my nose."

 

Hasmik said she was beaten for the first time three days after her

wedding, and since then she has lost count of the number of times

she has suffered abuse.

 

"I was pregnant then,' she recalled. "I was baking bread. I don't

know what my mother-in-law had told my husband, but he was mad with

rage when he rushed into the bakery. He snatched the rolling pin

from my hands and hit me on the back and head with it. I came round

in hospital, having already delivered the baby."

 

Hasmik decided to leave her husband, but her father refused to take

her back home, saying that wives were always beaten by their husbands

and advising her to put up with it and raise her child.

 

Ethnographer and sociologist Mihran Galstian said that traditional

denigrating attitudes towards women in Armenia has made such violence

possible. Armenian folk proverbs actively encourage beating by

promoting the idea that "a woman is like wool - the more you beat it,

the softer it becomes" or "a woman is made to cry".

 

Officials and parliamentarians also refuse to acknowledge there is

a problem.

 

For example, Armen Ashotian, a member of parliament from the governing

Republican Party, said, "Domestic violence is not a feature of our

families. I think that people who want to raise this problem are really

not bothered by the issue but just want to get new grants. They are

lowering the image of Armenia for the sake of their own pockets.

 

"There are occasionally cases of it, but domestic violence is not on

a big scale in our society. They shouldn't present Armenia as some

kind of African tribe, where people eat one another."

 

Data collected suggests otherwise. In 2004-2005, the Sociometer Centre

for Independent Sociological Studies conducted a poll of 1200 women

in Yerevan and eight towns and eight villages. Forty six per cent

said they were exposed to violence in their family, a quarter in the

presence of their children.

 

"Our officials refuse to admit that violence does exist in Armenian

families and that serious measures need to be taken to fight it," said

Susanna Vardanian, director of the Women's Rights Centre in Yerevan.

 

"Moreover, they accuse others of destroying our traditionally strong

families in order to get grants."

 

"Unfortunately, many see the abuse of women as normal.

 

The belief that violence is an integral part of married life originates

in early childhood: first a girl is beaten by her brother, then by

her husband, and she comes to think that that's the way it should be,"

said Adibek Aharonian, director of the Sociometer centre.

 

According to Sociometer, 45 per cent of the women suffering abuse

in their families keep quiet about their problem. Only 0.3 per cent

resort to divorce, and no more than 0.4 per cent contact the police.

 

Vardanian said women had no faith in the police to protect them and

they were afraid of the consequences, "After the police leave, [a

victim] may be subjected to still greater violence, as it's shameful

to wash your family's dirty linen in public."

 

Gulnara Martirosian (not her real name) now lives in an old people's

home in Yerevan, although she is only 45. Her 25 years of married

life were an endless series of fights not only with her husband,

but also with his mother and brother.

 

"Anyone who felt like it could beat me," she told IWPR. "If something

was wrong in the house, I was the one who got the blame. They pounced

on me and beat me - all together. Once I tried to defend myself,

I grabbed a chair and hit my husband over the head with it."

 

This incident, which happened in 2002, cost Gulnara her sight.

 

"I hit him and darted out of the house, but there was nowhere to run

- my parents are dead, I have no relatives, and I sought refuge in

my neighbour's house," she went on. "My husband came for me there,

and when he saw me, he splashed acid in my eyes. I remember my face

burning, the pain was so bad I lost consciousness. I was taken to

Yerevan and operated on there, but my sight never returned."

 

No one from the family comes to see Gulnara and she says her children

have been told that she is dead.

 

"I couldn't stand up for my rights, as I had no money, no relatives to

run around the courts for me. That's how my life has passed," she said.

 

Since the Centre for Women Rights opened seven years ago,

more than 10,000 women, including over four thousand victims of

domestic violence, have called its hotline, asking for help. Another

organisation, the Motherhood Foundation, has been open for four years

and has dealt with 3,000 women, who said they were exposed to abuse.

 

"These are rather high figures for Armenia, considering that women

suffering violence tend to seek help from their relatives and friends,

and only those in a hopeless situation turn to organisations like

ours," said Anna Badalian, a psychologist at the foundation.

 

IWPR randomly polled ten women in Yerevan on the street. Four of them

said they had been beaten by their husbands more than once. And there

was a clear difference in outlook between the generations.

 

"If couples divorced because of beatings and abuse, there would be

no families left in Armenia," said accountant Satik Kintoian, 78.

 

"I remember my grandfather saying that a man, when choosing a wife

for himself, should beat her first, and if she cowered in the corner,

that meant she would make a good wife, and if she ran away, then

she wouldn't.

 

"I was beaten and loved too. They say the more he beats you, the more

he'll love you. I have no regrets about my life. I'm not saying that

a wife should be beaten every day, but when she crosses the line,

she should have a beating."

 

Zaruhi Minasian, a 26-year-old translator, takes a different view. She

said she has never been subjected to physical abuse but she has

experienced psychological pressure.

 

"I have no respect for men who want to prove themselves by taking it

out against women," she said.

 

"That only proves that these men are weak."

 

Gayane Abrahamian is a correspondent for Armenianow.com.

 

[Takoush]

If I'm not mistaken this is the thread you guys are talking about.

Yes Yervant jan; Thank you and I was going to display or refer this here to them; but there was another thread as well that mentioned that 60% of women were being abused in ROA. I don't remember who put it out there but I read it and I've been looking now for a while and I can't seem to find it.

 

Well Yervant, the one you just displayed is also giving a lot of numbers.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi