Armenia In Nato

[irlandahay]

"Armenian Army to Meet NATO Standards by 2015

 

March 01, /PanArmenian.Net/ The commitments undertaken by Armenia heading toward the European integration are considered in complex: reforms in the defense sector, military planning and budget, RA Deputy Defense Minister, General Lieutenant Artur Aghabekyan stated at the EAPC seminar on "Economic Aspects of Security: Improving Governance of the Defense Sector". In his words the elaboration of the concept of RA national security started this year. "The national doctrine will be ready in 2007, the military one - in 2008. Purchase of new military equipment and training of specialists in accord with the NATO standards will be launched in 2008. Presently two Armenian officers are being trained in the U.S. two more officers will go there next year. Thus, by 2015 our army will meet the NATO standards," Aghabekyan noted.

 

When touching upon the Armenian-Russian military cooperation Artur Aghabekyan noted that the participation in the Armenia-NATO Individual Partnership Action Plan (IPAP) does not conflict with military relations with Russia. "The national security doctrine will include Armenia's relations with Russia, Turkey and NATO. One does not leave out the other. Armenia proceeds from the situation in the region and the peaceful settlement of the Nagorno Karabakh conflict," the RA Deputy Defense Minister stated."

 

i dunno,

im for armenian progress in all ways includng military wise

 

but this is no good.

turkey is in nato, azerbaijan is attempting to get into nato.

semms to me like a way to control armenia to calm down in its freedom movement...

 

and nato is basically the worlds superpowers trying to use small republics in theyr own personnal interest.

 

i dont think this is good for armenia!

[skhara]

for or against?

 

I'm not for it unless the alternatives are worse in the geostrategic standpoint.

[irlandahay]

I'm not for it unless the alternatives are worse in the geostrategic standpoint.

 

no but think about it for a sec...

 

if armenia joins, turkey is already part of it and azercrapjan is trying to get in...

nato is doing this to keep peace between old soviet republics...

 

basically if we join, it will take away all our rights to demanding our lands and will force us to return them to azercrapjan...

 

this is not good and i dont think any armenian will stand for that!

 

theyr just trying to take advantage of a poor caucasus nation for theyr own personnal profit!

 

its sickening!

[gamavor]

The only good (I repeat the ONLY good) thing about Russians is the Russian made armament. It is relatively cheap, reliable and superior to any western made military equipment. NATO could not and will not guarantee stability or peace in the region. The only positive effect of future membership of Armenia into the alliance I can think of is more transparency in government dealings and security for potential western investors. Other than that.. it is balooooony.

[irlandahay]

The only good (I repeat the ONLY good) thing about Russians is the Russian made armament. It is relatively cheap, reliable and superior to any western made military equipment. NATO could not and will not guarantee stability or peace in the region. The only positive effect of future membership of Armenia into the alliance I can think of is more transparency in government dealings and security for potential western investors. Other than that.. it is balooooony.

ok thats not true...

 

m16 is far superior any modern western weaponry is far superior then any stupi t72 tank or ak-47 or stupid migs...

 

the only good is its cheap.

 

armenia doesnt need al sorts of military technology...we have spirit, thats why azeris and turks will never be done with us! never!

 

we know why we fight and we are strong!

 

LONG LIVE A FREE HAYASTAN!

[gamavor]

Dearest Irlandahay, I'm far from being military expert - I’m just reiterating what the experts say. Just do some search and will find at least dozen of WebPages prizing the Russian weaponry and mostly it comes from Western experts.

 

 

For example in a latest "dog fight" between F-16's piloted by American pilots and Indian (Russian made) SU-31, the Americans couldn't score even once against the Su's. Later when they reviewed the navigation and radar records of the supposed "hits" , Indian pilots scored every time they sighted F-16 and the opposite, whenever F-16 sighted the SU's they couldn't record even one hit.

 

As for reliability, here I have some experience and I can assure you that if you plunge M-16 into water, rolled it the sand or dirt and than try to produce a shot, all you will hear is "Click, click". Yes, M-16 is a good and precise machine gun, but too sophisticated and too fussy.

 

Do the same with Kalashnikov and bang! The moment you put the magazine back it will work.

 

If I have time I will write about Armenia and Nato in more serious manner.

 

Later!

[tigranisbasileus]

ok thats not true...

 

m16 is far superior any modern western weaponry is far superior then any stupi t72 tank or ak-47 or stupid migs...

 

the only good is its cheap.

 

armenia doesnt need al sorts of military technology...we have spirit, thats why azeris and turks will never be done with us! never!

 

we know why we fight and we are strong!

 

LONG LIVE A FREE HAYASTAN!

 

No need for Armenia in NATO...already Turkey doesn't belong there. The only reason it was admitted is so the USSR couldn't enter it in the PACT. NExt thing you know, we'll be debating the entry of of Hayastan in the EU! That's funny!

[Harut]

Do the same with Kalashnikov and bang! The moment you put the magazine back it will work.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=91...2952&q=ak47

[gamavor]

Harut, are you spying on me

[gamavor]

As to Armenia's membership in NATO...well, it is not that easy!

 

Firstly, there are number of countries who are models in terms of societal development in the present world that do not belong to NATO and some of them are geographically located in areas where the North collides with the South and the East with West, but yet they are doing good without membership in NATO.

 

NATO membership is an expensive one that Armenia in her present state cannot afford. Increased security can only be achieved by a domestic military doctrine that would render no choice for any possible aggression from any of our neighbors and in the same time will ease the tensions in Caucasus created by the communist monsters that divided Armenia after the Genocide and left large Armenian populations outside the current borders of Armenia.

 

NATO membership is more important for the Armenian Diaspora rather than Republic of Armenia. This is the only way we can get our lands back, however the question is "do we need them at this time"? Could we absorb more land, build viable society in the occupied by Turkey Armenian lands? Can we repopulate Western Armenia? The answer is clearly NO! The Diaspora has enough resources which if utilized property can help Armenia stand on her feet, but it is too early to take back what is ours.

 

Armenia is a small (very small) country but as Gumretsy would put it, Armenia is the center of the world- literally. With a medium range ballistic missile you can shit up all of Europe, Middle East, Russia, and Central Asia.

 

A response attack on Armenia with WMD would have the boomerang effect. It is like pissing against the wind.

 

At present Armenian army is recognized as the second best in the post soviet territory after the Russian army. I think a 50K modern and professional army with high mobility combined with super modern anti-aircraft defense systems and coupled with WMD would satisfy Armenia's security needs for long time. And I think having a national defense doctrine and program is the better choice of Armenia at present rather than joining expensive clubs like NATO.

[gamavor]

NExt thing you know, we'll be debating the entry of of Hayastan in the EU! That's funny!

 

No, but NO thanks! Maybe some other time. Europe for Europeans, Armenia for Armenians and Turks for Central Asia!

[skhara]

At present Armenian army is recognized as the second best in the post soviet territory after the Russian army.

 

Russian army sux.

 

Artsakh's army is actually the best in the former SU.

[Armenak]

No need for Armenia in NATO...already Turkey doesn't belong there. The only reason it was admitted is so the USSR couldn't enter it in the PACT. NExt thing you know, we'll be debating the entry of of Hayastan in the EU! That's funny!

You want a real laugh? Look how long Greece has been in the European Union and then take a look at the rural towns and villages there. Heck, walk around Athens and observe the hundreds of stray dogs that roam around the city.

[gamavor]

I plan to retire in Armenia and I don't want to have turks, pakis, arabs, anglos, jews, mexicans, rednecks and other dignitaries as my neighbors. For Christ sake keep Armenia out of Europe!

[tigranisbasileus]

I plan to retire in Armenia and I don't want to have turks, pakis, arabs, anglos, jews, mexicans, rednecks and other dignitaries as my neighbors. For Christ sake keep Armenia out of Europe!

 

I agree with Gamavor about Armenia in Nato but not for his xenophobic reasons

[Yervant1]

I agree with Gamavor about Armenia in Nato but not for his xenophobic reasons

I feel for you he forgot to add the greeks on his list.

[Arpa]

Every time I see stories about Armenia and NATO it feels like a recurring nightmare, a dejavu.

Does anyone remember the words to that song. I can’t remember except for the refrain; “Yeghbayr dardzan Hayastan Azerbaijan….lalalala”. Those were during those heady days of intoxicating sovietization when perennial adversaries were made to sign non-aggression pacts. That was before 1988.

Turkey has been a NATO member for quite some time, and it is touted as one of the most aggressive “staunch ally“. You mean Armenia must sign a non-aggression pact with Turkey as a precondition to induction into that “club”? Must Armenia forego and forget all issues with Turkey, like the Big G, reparations, repatriation, return of native lands…. and more?

Will some of our geniuses write another song with words like; “Yeghbayr dardzan Hayastan Turk-astan”?

OK, alright. Greece is also a member of NATO, a “yeghbayr” of Turkey, but it has not stopped either of them from exchanging military action, aerial aggression of each others’ territorial integrity, neither has it stopped Turkey from forcefully invading Greek-Cypriot lands.

Once again. What will the preconditions be for inducting Armenia into that club, that den of inequity, read ‘lack of equality‘?

[phantom22]

With Armenia a member of NATO, the Turkish strength will be more greatly counterbalanced. Greece and Armenia can act as one unit to lobby for greater equality of decisionmaking.

 

 

Every time I see stories about Armenia and NATO it feels like a recurring nightmare, a dejavu.

Does anyone remember the words to that song. I can’t remember except for the refrain; “Yeghbayr dardzan Hayastan Azerbaijan….lalalala”. Those were during those heady days of intoxicating sovietization when perennial adversaries were made to sign non-aggression pacts. That was before 1988.

Turkey has been a NATO member for quite some time, and it is touted as one of the most aggressive “staunch ally“. You mean Armenia must sign a non-aggression pact with Turkey as a precondition to induction into that “club”? Must Armenia forego and forget all issues with Turkey, like the Big G, reparations, repatriation, return of native lands…. and more?

Will some of our geniuses write another song with words like; “Yeghbayr dardzan Hayastan Turk-astan”?

OK, alright. Greece is also a member of NATO, a “yeghbayr” of Turkey, but it has not stopped either of them from exchanging military action, aerial aggression of each others’ territorial integrity, neither has it stopped Turkey from forcefully invading Greek-Cypriot lands.

Once again. What will the preconditions be for inducting Armenia into that club, that den of inequity, read ‘lack of equality‘?

[Arpa]

With Armenia a member of NATO, the Turkish strength will be more greatly counterbalanced. Greece and Armenia can act as one unit to lobby for greater equality of decisionmaking.

Abou Ben Moshe. Please forgive me for disturbing your deep REM session.

“May your tribe increase”.

Do you know the following poem?

"Abou Ben Adhem"

 

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)

Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,

And saw, within the moonlight in his room,

Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,

An Angel writing in a book of gold:

 

Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,

And to the Presence in the room he said,

"What writest thou?" The Vision raised its head,

And with a look made of all sweet accord

Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord."

 

"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"

Replied the Angel. Abou spoke more low,

But cheerily still; and said, "I pray thee, then,

Write me as one who loves his fellow men."

 

The Angel wrote, and vanished. The next night

It came again with a great wakening light,

And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,

And, lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest!

-- By Leigh Hunt.

“The names of those who love the Lord”?

Lord Mehmet?

Please don’t wake up. It is not time yet. Stay in that lalaland stuopor of Sleeping Beauty. WE will wake you up when it’s time. When the Cold War is over, that is when the West realizes that Russia is NOT the heir to that Cold War adversary SU, and that Turkey is NOT a buffer zone anymore.

We will wake you up when NATO resolves the disputes between those long standing allies like Greece, Cyprus and Turkey.

We will wake you up when NATO resolves that long standing dispute between Ankara and Yerevan and Western Armenia will be opened for the likes of you to come and reestablish their ancestral “khoja-hoods”.

Until then; “Rockabye baby on the tree top…” ,“lullabye, and good night , with roses bedight…”, “Qun yeghir balas, acherd khup ara..”

[phantom22]

Most of this backwardness remains inthe US military and US internal think tanks (CIA and FBI).

 

You can not imagine the idiocy that persons of this stripe have handed me. They think that the Soviet Union is still intact in reality and that the present state of affairs is only a mirage.

 

 

 

Abou Ben Moshe. Please forgive me for disturbing your deep REM session.

“May your tribe increase”.

Do you know the following poem?

"Abou Ben Adhem"

 

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)

Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,

And saw, within the moonlight in his room,

Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,

An Angel writing in a book of gold:

 

Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,

And to the Presence in the room he said,

"What writest thou?" The Vision raised its head,

And with a look made of all sweet accord

Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord."

 

"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"

Replied the Angel. Abou spoke more low,

But cheerily still; and said, "I pray thee, then,

Write me as one who loves his fellow men."

 

The Angel wrote, and vanished. The next night

It came again with a great wakening light,

And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,

And, lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest!

-- By Leigh Hunt.

“The names of those who love the Lord”?

Lord Mehmet?

Please don’t wake up. It is not time yet. Stay in that lalaland stuopor of Sleeping Beauty. WE will wake you up when it’s time. When the Cold War is over, that is when the West realizes that Russia is NOT the heir to that Cold War adversary SU, and that Turkey is NOT a buffer zone anymore.We will wake you up when NATO resolves the disputes between those long standing allies like Greece, Cyprus and Turkey.

We will wake you up when NATO resolves that long standing dispute between Ankara and Yerevan and Western Armenia will be opened for the likes of you to come and reestablish their ancestral “khoja-hoods”.

Until then; “Rockabye baby on the tree top…” ,“lullabye, and good night , with roses bedight…”, “Qun yeghir balas, acherd khup ara..”

[irlandahay]

No need for Armenia in NATO...already Turkey doesn't belong there. The only reason it was admitted is so the USSR couldn't enter it in the PACT. NExt thing you know, we'll be debating the entry of of Hayastan in the EU! That's funny!

 

hey tigranes! your back!

 

where have you been? and how is stavros?

[irlandahay]

Dearest Irlandahay, I'm far from being military expert - I’m just reiterating what the experts say. Just do some search and will find at least dozen of WebPages prizing the Russian weaponry and mostly it comes from Western experts.

For example in a latest "dog fight" between F-16's piloted by American pilots and Indian (Russian made) SU-31, the Americans couldn't score even once against the Su's. Later when they reviewed the navigation and radar records of the supposed "hits" , Indian pilots scored every time they sighted F-16 and the opposite, whenever F-16 sighted the SU's they couldn't record even one hit.

 

As for reliability, here I have some experience and I can assure you that if you plunge M-16 into water, rolled it the sand or dirt and than try to produce a shot, all you will hear is "Click, click". Yes, M-16 is a good and precise machine gun, but too sophisticated and too fussy.

 

Do the same with Kalashnikov and bang! The moment you put the magazine back it will work.

 

If I have time I will write about Armenia and Nato in more serious manner.

 

Later!

 

i have done some research gamavor...

 

and bow my head in shame for you are right!

sorry for doubting you

 

but sure...ak beats m16, but western millitary technology is far mroe advanced, and so far...the united states is winning in every front...

 

but for the ak you are right

[gamavor]

but sure...ak beats m16, but western millitary technology is far mroe advanced, and so far...the united states is winning in every front...

 

but for the ak you are right

 

Dearest Irlandahay, just to remind you that the so-called "Stelt" bomber was downed over Yugoslavia with anti-aircraft cannon from the 50's.

 

No doubt the American military technology (especially communications and precision guided technology) is far superior over Russian analogs, but...think about it. When you go on a war you don't think about "collateral damage". It is the opposite - the more (damage) the merrier. The Katushas and their modern version BM-21 are the most imprecise piece of artillery that was ever invented. Out of 40 pipes loaded with reactive missiles only 1 hits the target. The rest in 99% of the cases go astray and create the leaving hell for which Katushas become famous.

[irlandahay]

Dearest Irlandahay, just to remind you that the so-called "Stelt" bomber was downed over Yugoslavia with anti-aircraft cannon from the 50's.

 

No doubt the American military technology (especially communications and precision guided technology) is far superior over Russian analogs, but...think about it. When you go on a war you don't think about "collateral damage". It is the opposite - the more (damage) the merrier. The Katushas and their modern version BM-21 are the most imprecise piece of artillery that was ever invented. Out of 40 pipes loaded with reactive missiles only 1 hits the target. The rest in 99% of the cases go astray and create the leaving hell for which Katushas become famous.

 

LOL! IN ANY CASE!!!!

 

this is bout nato...but gamavor, clearly you know more about this then i so its settled, i bow my head to your intellectuel superiority

 

but anyways. hey gamavor, we can need your help on this!

 

go on www.middleeastinfo.org/forum

 

active and used by turks very often, we have assyrians and kurds defending us but turks keep spreading theyr bull shit!

 

i invite anyone interested to join and help me and my fellow armenians on the forum to defend ourselves and armenia!

 

the turks keep spreading such crap its unbelievable, but i need help! it would feel good to have someone i know from this forum to help me!

 

gamavor jan, your help would be greatly appreciated!

[Arpa]

Dear Irlandahay, please don’t visit those sites, and even more, do not get embroiled in so called debates.

The more we do the more we lend credence to their nonsense. As a rule, never engage in debates with Turks, the more we do the more they change their strategy and come up with more ridiculous ideas. For example if one were to debate with them about the origin of the name of the city of Van they may come up with such ridiculous arguments that it is a Turkish town and a Turkish word based on “hayvan/beast”, and more garbage.

Please advise your Assyrian and Kurdish friends to stop engaging in fruitless debates as well. Urge them to stop the “talk” and start the “walk”. The Kurds have been massacred and decimated by the “all powerful” Turkish military for several decades now, and as it seems the end is not in sight. Urge your Kurdish friends to learn a lesson from the latest saga in Lebanon where the other neighborhood bully learned that, even with the latest western military technology they could be defeated, humiliated and ask for international intervention and protection.

Tell your Kurdish friends to stop the talk and start to walk. Do they want to be Kurds or Mountain Turks? And once those Kurds and Assyrians throw off the Turkish yoke and liberate their so called lands, then we will negotiate with them.

LOL! IN ANY CASE!!!!

 

this is bout nato...but gamavor, clearly you know more about this then i so its settled, i bow my head to your intellectuel superiority

 

but anyways. hey gamavor, we can need your help on this!

 

go on www.middleeastinfo.org/forum

=======

gamavor jan, your help would be greatly appreciated!