DominO123 Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 (edited) Sip, let me explain you this mathematically. Be A, all the universes Jesus lived in in the same time before he died. Be E, all the universes in which Jesus died when he died. Be A-E the universes Jesus lived in after he died. Jesus sacrified E. Edited July 19, 2006 by QueBeceR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Sip, let me explain you this mathematically. Be A, all the universes Jesus lived in in the same time before he died. Be E, all the universes in which Jesus died when he died. Be A-E the universes Jesus lived in after he died. Jesus sacrified E. As if Djrak's explanation was not complicated enough now this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 "Moses" who? You mean MosJan? If you still believe that there actually was a Moses then you must be a good customer for a "slightly used bridge in Brooklyn". Cheap!! in the best case scenario i can split a topic - so by the powers invested in me by Garo and my ForumMembers, I now Split this topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 in the best case scenario i can split a topic - so by the powers invested in me by Garo and my ForumMembers, I now Split this topic Are you telling us that you won't be buying our used bridges anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) Can someone please explain to me how Jesus dying "for us" is a sacrifice? If He was the Son of God (or just "God" as some claim), why would dying for God's message be any sort of sacrifice? I mean I would understand if He gave up something special to die but He was going to heaven so what could possibly compare to Heaven that would constitute the tradeoff a "sacrifice"? Also, all these slogans of "Jesus died for our sins" ... how did He die for "our sins"? Didn't He die for His own benefit to go to Heaven? The concept of sacrifice in the Bible is the idea of an offering that is for the purpose of obtaining forgiveness and for satisfying the demands of God's justice. The significance and effectiveness of Jesus' sacrifice was not dependent upon how much He was "giving up." It was dependent on the fact that He was God and was also man, a perfect man without sin, who was of the race of Adam but did not have the sinfulness of Adam's race. This made it possible for his blood sacrifice to obtain redemption for us by His suffering the punishment of death in our place. By faith in Him, we therefore, receive the forgiveness of sins and His righteousness before the Father. In addition, you also must realize that though He knew He would be raised from the dead, He was still a man, and the suffering underwent was tremendous. PM me if you still have questions.. Edited July 21, 2006 by sSebB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 You are going to hear from Seb you mister. Sip I told you, you are going to hear from Seb. Now do you get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Sip; if you are not going to call me names, I'll tell you from what I know. God send his only son to this world so that His son through His teachings and His way of living and behaviour towards people and also animals show the world how God wants us to live and wants us to love one another; but also to always follow Gods rules and also the Ten Commandments. Jesus died on the cross at the ripe age of only 33 and He died by bearing all our sins upon Himself. It took Him I believe about 3 hours to die; but during that time, I believe He experienced all the hellish consequences that us people would've bear while He was on the cross. Those 3 or 3+ hours, it felt like 30 years for Him; because He felt extreme emotional and spritual pain while He took upon Himself all our sins, so that we the human kind would be able to go to heavan rather than being condemned to go to hell as it was the case before Jesus came to this earth. God did all that. ... So if I understand you correctly, the "sacrifice" of Jesus was the few hours he suffered horrible pain while he was dying on the cross? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 ... the book was written in metaphores ... god is a symbol ... arpa im tired of your provocative and insulting posts! Those are not the positions that the Church holds. I think that's why Arpa is "insulting" the church. I would definitely agree with you but I do not agree at all with the church. If you don't believe me, just ask sSebB to tell you what he believes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 His own free will gave his life and died on the cross to go down to hell and offer the same salvation to ppl trapped there then was raised becaused he reversed the law of death he was life and he could not die, so death could not have any power over him, and that is how whoever believes in him will also be saved from th etrap of sin and death. ... So at first Jesus went to Hell after his death? I understand what you are saying (I think) but I don't understand if you are saying Jesus sacrificed something or not. Was there a sacrifice on the part of Jesus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 The concept of sacrifice in the Bible is the idea of an offering that is for the purpose of obtaining forgiveness and for satisfying the demands of God's justice. The significance and effectiveness of Jesus' sacrifice was not dependent upon how much He was "giving up." It was dependent on the fact that He was God and was also man, a perfect man without sin, who was of the race of Adam but did not have the sinfulness of Adam's race. This made it possible for his blood sacrifice to obtain redemption for us by His suffering the punishment of death in our place. By faith in Him, we therefore, receive the forgiveness of sins and His righteousness before the Father. In addition, you also must realize that though He knew He would be raised from the dead, He was still a man, and the suffering underwent was tremendous. Strangely enough, this is probably the best explanation of what I asked so far. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 So if I understand you correctly, the "sacrifice" of Jesus was the few hours he suffered horrible pain while he was dying on the cross? He gave His life and His blood to redeem for us which was punishable by death (not just to suffer bodily death, but the death of our souls through eternity). By dying on the cross He made it possible to cleanse our sins to appear righteous in the eyes of God. I thought I made it clear before that Jesus died on the cross within a few hours, but during that time He felt tremendous emotional sufferings that made Him feel more like 30 years and not just a few hours of sufferings. He bore all that to cleanse our sins forever, however when we believe in Him and have faith in Him, we'll appear to God as righteous men so that we will be acceptable in the eyes of God when we finally appear in front of Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 So at first Jesus went to Hell after his death? yes, he had to. whoever died went to hell or hades, Jesus being a complete human died on the cross and descended to hades but having lived a sinless life and being life itself death could not hold him there so he was raised and raised everyone who believed and who were waiting for the Christ there. I understand what you are saying (I think) but I don't understand if you are saying Jesus sacrificed something or not. Was there a sacrifice on the part of Jesus? Ofcourse, He gave his life, he took our sinful nature and lived a life without sin because he stayed connected to the Father thru teh Holy Spirit. He, in his own free will, obeyed the Father and did not do what he wanted but what the Father wanted, he gave his life on the cross and was separated from the Father for a little while so he could die (otherwise it was impossible for him to die). God couldve called a whole army of angels and destroyed the entire nation of Jews, Romans, or created 10 other planets just like this in a split second. But he couldnt because he is just. His righteousness doent allow that. He sacrificed His only son for the entire humanity. His love reached that level of sacrifice. Hope that makes it clearer for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 3- man sinned and caused the entire creation to fall (animals eating each other, deserts, volcanos, diseases, etc..) Here's where everything falls apart. Why did man sin? If man was created from God's image and placed into the wonderful paradise to live harmoniously with nature and God, then how could man sin? It must've come from the within of man, from man's nature that God created. It doesn't make sense, for it means that God created man to sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Here's where everything falls apart. Why did man sin? If man was created from God's image and placed into the wonderful paradise to live harmoniously with nature and God, then how could man sin? It must've come from the within of man, from man's nature that God created. It doesn't make sense, for it means that God created man to sin. anoushik jan: True God created man, but He didn't make man to be like robots, He created man to have their own mind and be an entity of their own (having each their own character and the free will and mind); but if you also recall in the Bible in the beginning of the Genesis, God made it clear to Adam and Eve not to eat the fruits from one particular tree and they believed in Satan and they did it anyway. It was after that that they felt the nakedness and the shamefulness of them being naked. That's how God found out that they have disobeyed. But, in a nutshell, God yes created men, but he also created them to have a free mind and a free will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 (edited) Actually Adam and Eve didn't so much believe in Satan, but mostly they were tempted by Satan to act in a certain way to have them disobey God. Satan wishes was to make God's creation disobey God and have them suffer as they have and still do; unless as it stands now, if they believe in Jesus and God and to be saved that way. But like I said before, God created men to each have his/her own free will and individual minds. But to also obey Him and His rules to gain success, goodness and happiness through eternity. Edited July 22, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Strangely enough, this is probably the best explanation of what I asked so far. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 How can one still believe in Adam and Eve with all the advances in cellular biology, evolutionary discoveries etc., either one is totally disconnected with reality or has a a significantly under developped cerebral cortex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 How can one still believe in Adam and Eve. Biblites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 How can one still believe in Adam and Eve ... This thread is not about whether one believes in all the things Christianity proposes. It's specifically about the mind-set of Jesus (aka God, aka Son of God, aka Lord, ...) and what the explanation is about his "sacrifice" <-- the specific definition of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 (edited) How can one still believe in Adam and Eve with all the advances in cellular biology, evolutionary discoveries etc., either one is totally disconnected with reality or has a a significantly under developped cerebral cortex. You want to call anyone under developed cerebral cortex CALL IT TO YOURSELF Domino EFENDI YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE A DISCONNECTED CEREBRAL CORTEX to call me that when you are ANTI CHRIST YOURSELF I was in good faith giving satisfaction to Sip for his question IN GOOD FAITH. Shame on you QUEBECER Domino and start another war against me. Edited July 22, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 This thread is not about whether one believes in all the things Christianity proposes. It's specifically about the mind-set of Jesus (aka God, aka Son of God, aka Lord, ...) and what the explanation is about his "sacrifice" <-- the specific definition of that. I thank you Sip for setting the facts straight!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.