sen_Vahan Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Hi All, Below is a question a friend of mine from Istanbul sent me asking about the 1923 Budapest meeting. If someone knows a source please let me know. "I have been looking for a reference but wasn't able to find out. This is a report that was given to the Tashnak committee by the first prime minister of Ermenia, Katchaznouni. The meeting was held in 1923 in Budapest. The Turkish sources claim that he defends the Turks in 1915 events. I want to make sure that the Turkish sources are not manipulating what he said. " Thanks, Vahan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Hi All, Below is a question a friend of mine from Istanbul sent me asking about the 1923 Budapest meeting. If someone knows a source please let me know. "I have been looking for a reference but wasn't able to find out. This is a report that was given to the Tashnak committee by the first prime minister of Ermenia, Katchaznouni. The meeting was held in 1923 in Budapest. The Turkish sources claim that he defends the Turks in 1915 events. I want to make sure that the Turkish sources are not manipulating what he said. " Thanks, Vahan Oh boy, the famous manifesto. I've managed sometimes ago, to get the translation published by Darounian in 1955, which is the version the Turks rely on. I have tried to have a hold on the original published in 1923, in its Armenian original, I never found it. Even though, I have not directly requested from the National Library of Armenia, I have placed a photocopy request from an Interloaning system, and in the fields, I have claimed that it had it,(National Library of Armenia) so that it could be verified, I had a failed result. I later, continued in my quest, and submitted for The National Library of Russia, with the same results. I have also researched and researched, through Turkish authors who have used him(few are those that have used him), so that I email them and request from what library they got it. But, they have all relied on the 1955 version translated from Darounian. The problem is that Darounian is not a reliable sources for anything that concerns tha Dashnaks, he hated them, and he admitted hating them, and this since childhood, (since he had witnessed the butchery of Archbishop Tourian by Dashnaks). Also, there are some mistakes in the translation version, which I hardly doubt could be present in its Armenian version(which seems impossible to access). Transcaucasia has nothing to do with the Ottoman Armenians, the Erzeroun congress content has nothing to do with what is reported in Darounians version of the manifesto, since that meeting concerned the Ottoman Armenians, and not those in Trancaucasus, who were in the juridication of the Russian Empire. Also, the part of the content of the manifesto used mostly by Turkish authors(more particularly by Ataov), are the first 7-8 pages, which are claimed to be verbatims. Not only we don't know where is an Armenian version, but also, we have no idea of who transcripted the speech(since they are said to be verbatims). I'd tend to believe that if the Armenian text really exist, it has been overblown by Darounian(as he did with his stories of those in the American administration who comploted with the NAZI), and also mistranslated.(like the Trancaucasia part, trying to drag the Ottoman Armenians, when they were even probably not included) There are many other aspects of the manifesto and Darounian, and also the fact that the supposed speech was given in a Bolshevic system, that had all the interest to alienate the Dashnaks. If anyone could find the Armenian version, it'll help. Armen, since you're in Armenia, can you do something about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen_Vahan Posted October 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 This is somewhat foggy. I wish he asked me this question a couple of weeks ago when I was in Armenia, I could perhaps use the libraries you mentioned. Oh boy, the famous manifesto. I've managed sometimes ago, to get the translation published by Darounian in 1955, which is the version the Turks rely on. I have tried to have a hold on the original published in 1923, in its Armenian original, I never found it. Even though, I have not directly requested from the National Library of Armenia, I have placed a photocopy request from an Interloaning system, and in the fields, I have claimed that it had it,(National Library of Armenia) so that it could be verified, I had a failed result. I later, continued in my quest, and submitted for The National Library of Russia, with the same results. I have also researched and researched, through Turkish authors who have used him(few are those that have used him), so that I email them and request from what library they got it. But, they have all relied on the 1955 version translated from Darounian. The problem is that Darounian is not a reliable sources for anything that concerns tha Dashnaks, he hated them, and he admitted hating them, and this since childhood, (since he had witnessed the butchery of Archbishop Tourian by Dashnaks). Also, there are some mistakes in the translation version, which I hardly doubt could be present in its Armenian version(which seems impossible to access). Transcaucasia has nothing to do with the Ottoman Armenians, the Erzeroun congress content has nothing to do with what is reported in Darounians version of the manifesto, since that meeting concerned the Ottoman Armenians, and not those in Trancaucasus, who were in the juridication of the Russian Empire. Also, the part of the content of the manifesto used mostly by Turkish authors(more particularly by Ataov), are the first 7-8 pages, which are claimed to be verbatims. Not only we don't know where is an Armenian version, but also, we have no idea of who transcripted the speech(since they are said to be verbatims). I'd tend to believe that if the Armenian text really exist, it has been overblown by Darounian(as he did with his stories of those in the American administration who comploted with the NAZI), and also mistranslated.(like the Trancaucasia part, trying to drag the Ottoman Armenians, when they were even probably not included) There are many other aspects of the manifesto and Darounian, and also the fact that the supposed speech was given in a Bolshevic system, that had all the interest to alienate the Dashnaks. If anyone could find the Armenian version, it'll help. Armen, since you're in Armenia, can you do something about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Nice to see you back. I wish you did. Interloaning have limits, more so when they have to decipher "weird" Armenian characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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