Turks

[TigranG]

There is a big difference between being a Turk (Turkic) and being Turkish. Turkish means that you are from Turkey, a person who barely has Turkic genes, most Turkish people are a mixture of Armenian/Greek/Persian/Arab blood, Turk means you are Turkic (relating to Central/East Asian ethnicity). People misuse these words all the time.

As for the Turkic ethnicity,

Turkic people originated in western China, Chinese history recorded this fact, which exists in Central Asia till this day, that Turks originated form a wolf who saves a boys life and gives birth to the Hsiung-nu people in west china, who were pushed west to Altai mounatain where they became subjects of their Mongol cousins, and gained the name Turuk/Turk, thus the turks and mongols were under the banner flagg of the wolf at one point...

Turks and Mongols were at one point undistinguishable in both race and culture... Their languages both belong to the same linguistic family tree and relate to one another. Original Turks were of Mongoloid/Chinese race who eventually conquered and mixed with caucasians in central Asia. Till this day, deep rooted words which are not borrowed, exist in the "Turkic" language which reflect the origin of western China...

 

For example the word for water in Turkic is "SUI" in Mandarin Chinese its "SHUI" and in Cantonese Chinese its "SUI" as well... Also turkic words such as Dong=freezing, Vadi/Wa di=lowland, bey/bo=father's brother, ajia/jie=sister/female relative, Tan/Dan=sunrise, are the same in Chinese language...

 

Unlike middle eastern Trurkish people, Most central asian Turks till this day contain about 50% of their original east asian genes, and the original Turkic motherland which is western China, is still inhabited by Turkic speaking populations, an area called Xinjiang...

 

Turkey is a fake Turkofied country which is not even Turkic in genetics at all, except for few % of the population..........

Edited September 22, 2005 by TigranG

[vava]

And some sort of factual basis for the above is.... ?

[Anoushik]

Turkic people originated in western China, Chinese history recorded this fact, which exists in Central Asia till this day, that Turks originated form a wolf who  saves a boys life and gives birth to the Hsiung-nu people in west china, who were pushed west to Altai mounatain where they became subjects of their Mongol cousins, and gained the name Turuk/Turk, thus the turks and mongols were under the banner flagg of the wolf at one point...

style_images/master/snapback.png

[TigranG]

Factual bases are the Chinese and Mongolian accounts about the roots of the Turks and the Huns, not to mention the languistic and the anthropologiacal facts...

[M_Karazov]

Factual bases are the Chinese and Mongolian accounts about the roots of the Turks and the Huns, not to mention the languistic and the anthropologiacal facts...

 

The Turkic people of Central Asia/Xinxiang are Mongolic people while Turkish people in Turkey are Caucasian/Greek decent. Remember places like Constantinopel had huge populations. That's why Turkey is based on 2 things: religion and language, for the rest it is a country, according to Turkish people 87 and a half ethnic group, the half refering to gypsies.

[kakachik77]

Karazov, are you russian?

[M_Karazov]

Karazov, are you russian?

 

Yes, but I am from the city of Ust-Kamenogorsk (now Oskemen) although I live in Europe.

[Vanetsi]

Joseph [one of the Khazar kings] then proceeds to provide a genealogy of his people. Though a fierce Jewish nationalist, proud of wielding the "Sceptre of Judah," he cannot, and does not, claim for them Semitic descent; he traces their ancestry not to Shem, but to Noah's third son, Japheth; or more precisely to Japheth's grandson, Togarma, the ancestor of all Turkish tribes.

 

Untrue! Where do they get this connection? The Turks are of Mongolian descent. Even the word "Turk" was originally used as the name for a faction of Mongolians. Although it is true that Ottoman Turks have a lot of Armenian--the real descendants of Togarmah (partly)-- and Greek blood, it is incorrect to say that Togarmah is the ancestor of all Turkish tribes.

 

Its around the middle of the page-- a little below.

 

"God's Covenant People"

Zionist Webpage

Edited December 11, 2005 by Vanetsi

[Arpa]

Wait till they find a way to turkify Haik, Ara, Anahit and Vahkn.

If we insist on justifying our armenianness based on our imagined connection to that drunken idiot Noah, so can they.

[kakachik77]

Yes, but I am from the city of Ust-Kamenogorsk (now Oskemen) although I live in Europe.

 

Hi Kazarov,

this probably should be a different thread. Do you see the kettle exploding in Russia and an ethnic war starting anytime soon? Some of the news I read is scary but again I have no idea what is going on in reality.

[gamavor]

There is NO other culture or race so mixed as the so-called Turks! No matter how hard they try to deny it a large percentage of their initial tribesman were of Semitic origin. A lot of them (not that many as we wish or somebody else is trying hard to infuse for political reasons) are of Indo-European origin. Mostly Armenians, Greeks, Kurds and lots of Osetian, Persian, Celtic, Slavic, Albanian, etc. blood.

 

As I said all of these is immaterial since if a person chooses to be a Turk, he is a Turk.

 

As to their biblical geneology....it is just regretfully laughable

 

For those of you who read Russian, here is a Biblical geneology of the different races. There is a mention of Ashkenaz as protogenetor of the Scandinavians, which comes as no surprise since Ashkenaz comes from Gomer and Gomer from Jafet. The Khazars living around Caspian sea were of Ashkenazic decent, and their Judaism is not inherited but adopted.

 

БИБЛЕЙСКАЯ ГЕНЕАЛОГИЧЕСКАЯ ТАБЛИЦА

 

1. Потомки Иафета.

 

| ГОМЕР - (пафлогонийцы)

| | АСКЕНАЗ (скандинавы - Швеция, Норвегия, Дания)

| | РИФАТ (французы, кельты, шотландцы - Франция, Англия, Шотландия)

| | ФОГАРМА (армяне - Армения)

|

| МАГОГ (скифы - Скифия)

ИАФЕТ -|

| МАДАЙ (мидийцы - Мидия)

|

| | ЕЛИСА (греки - Греция)

| ИАВАН | ФАРСИС (фарсийцы - Испания)

| | КИТТИМ (Кипр)

| | ДОДАНИМ (троянцы и родосцы - Троя, Родос)

|

| ФУВАЛ (иберы, грузины - Иберия, Грузия)

| МЕШЕХ (каппадокийцы - Каппадокия)

| ФИРАС (фракийцы, даки, геты - Фракия, Дакия)

 

 

2. Потомки Хама.

 

| СЕВА (африканцы - Мероэ)

|- ХУШ -| ХАВИЛА (гетулы)

| | САВТА

| | | ШЕВА

| |- РААМА -| ДЕДАН

| |

| | САВТЕХА (эфиопы - Эфиопия)

| | НИМРОД (вавилоняне - Вавилон)

ХАМ -|

| | ЛУДИМ

| | АНАМИМ

|- МИЦРАИМ -| ЛЕГАВИМ (север Африки)

| (египтяне - | НАФТУХИМ (земли возле Пелузия)

| Египет) | ПАТРУСИМ (Верхний Египет)

| | КАСЛУХИМ (филистимляне)

| | КАФТОРИМ (Крит)

|

|- ФУТ (ливийцы, Ливия)

|

| | СИДОН (финикийцы, Финикия)

| | ХЕТ (хетты, империя Хеттов)

| | ИЕВУСЕЙ (иевусеи)

|- ХАНААН -| АМОРРЕЙ (аморреи)

| ГЕРГЕСЕЙ (гергесеи)

| АРКЕЙ (аркеи - финикийский город Арка)

| СИНЕЙ (синеи)

| АРВАДЕЙ (арвадеи)

| ЦЕМАРЕЙ (цемареи)

| ХИМАФЕЙ (химафеи)

 

 

3. Потомки Сима.

 

|- ЕЛАМ (еламиты и персы - Елам и Персия)

|- АССУР (ассирийцы - Ассирия)

|

| |- ФАЛЕК (евреи, арабы, идумеи,

|- АРФАКСАД -|- САЛА -|- ЕВЕР - | аммонитяне, моавитяне)

СИМ -| |- ИОКТАН

|

|- ЛУД (лидийцы, Лидия)

|

| | УЦ (Трахонита и Дамаск)

|- АРАМ | ХУЛ

| ГЕФЕР (бактрийцы, Бактрия)

| МАШ (мисанейцы)

[M_Karazov]

Hi Kazarov,

this probably should be a different thread. Do you see the kettle exploding in Russia and an ethnic war starting anytime soon? Some of the news I read is scary but again I have no idea what is going on in reality.

 

Excellent question! And more important then this topic probably))) Why, because 2 million Armenians live in Russia and are influenced by these issues.

 

I believe, and with me millions of people, the situation in Russia is really tense. There are few regions were there are no rumours about separation from the federation as a result of having to pay too much tax to the federal governement or ethnic tensions, and not just between Russians and non-Russians. Two months ago,

federal troops had to intervene between Kalmyks and Chechen residents in Kalmykia after several people died during ethnic clashes. So in general there is a lot of insecurity which create these tensions.

 

For Armenians the most important events are in Moscow and Stavropolsky and Krasnodarsky Krai of the Southern Federal District since the vast majority is living here. Of course there are incidents in these regions, in Moscow with skinheads and in the SFD with Cossacks like mentioned on fsumonitor, although I believe these people (of fsu monitor) are retards and not providing any solutions. But what is important to remember, Russians have no traditions of dislike towards Armenians, opposed to feelings about people from certain other Caucasian countries. Armenians in Russia are contributing much more then most other groups.

 

So what's important for Armenians in Russia is how to differentiate themselves from other Caucasians and that influential Armenian figures build good community relations with Russian and other Slavic groups like Cossacks (who originate from Ukraine). And this is essential and possible since the good historical relations between both countries and in the public opinion of most Russian Armenians are not overrepresented in crime like people from countries in the region.

Edited December 14, 2005 by M_Karazov

[gamavor]

Karazov, sorry my friend but what the so-called "skinheads" (slavic nazis is oxymoron itself, since Hitler considered you less than sub-humans) are doing in Moscow against non-Russians inevitably affects the attitude of those same non-russians towards russians living outside Russia (West included).

 

The fact that such gross violations of human rights are a response against criminal behavior of certain groups is a lame excuse.

 

Armenia and Russia as countries have always been friendly not because we love you guys (and vice verse) but because we need each other. Russian imperialism is equally devastating to the Armenians as it is the Turkish one. I think your government should re-think the way it treats the ex-soviet republics.

 

One of the reasons why there are so many Armenians in Russia is exactly the double face politic practiced by the Russian government even before the revolution. Russia never ever sincerely wished independance for Armenia. All she did is 'impera ad divide'.

[kakachik77]

thanks for your response Karazov, I will respond in more detail about my opinion but now I have to study for an exam.

 

Gamavor, your points are good but today it's better to think about solutions for the safety and well-being of Armenians' in Russia rather than analyze historical facts, 2 million is a lot of people.

Edited December 12, 2005 by kakachik77

[gamavor]

thanks for your response Karazov, I will respond in more detail about my opinion but now I have to study for an exam.

 

Gamavor, your points are good but today it's better to think about solutions for the safety and well-being of Armenians' in Russia rather than analyze historical facts, 2 million is a lot of people.

 

 

I agree it is a big number! Wouldn't it be nice if all of them can contribute to Armenia instead of Russia? Russia is a rich country. Armenia is poor.

[M_Karazov]

Karazov, sorry my friend but what the so-called "skinheads" (slavic nazis is oxymoron itself, since Hitler considered you less than sub-humans) are doing in Moscow against non-Russians inevitably affects the attitude of those same non-russians towards russians living outside Russia (West included).

 

The fact that such gross violations of human rights are a response against criminal behavior of certain groups is a lame excuse.

 

Armenia and Russia as countries have always been friendly not because we love you guys (and vice verse) but because we need each other. Russian imperialism is equally devastating to the Armenians as it is the Turkish one. I think your government should re-think the way it treats the ex-soviet republics.

 

One of the reasons why there are so many Armenians in Russia is exactly the double face politic practiced by the Russian government even before the revolution. Russia never ever sincerely wished independance for Armenia. All she did is 'impera ad divide'.

 

First of all, I do not like or agree with skinheads myself, I don't know if you assume that, neither do most Russians. But because most Russians have the opinion that crime is commited more by Caucasian groups, there is not the same response against skinsheads as in other countries, unfortunatelly....

What I wanted to say was: Russian DO NOT have the idea are much involved in crime as they have about groups from other parts of Caucasus.

 

But we have to be careful not to expand dislike among whole nations, just keep it restricted to a few extrimists, that's bad enough allready. I don't care too much for public opinion in the West about Russia or Russians because they don't know anything about CIS. For instance they talk about "Russian" mafia in NYC. I don't know what is Russian about them (Jews from Odessa), all I know is that they are from the same nationality as the people who collect all the facts about ethnic violence in Russia(FSU monitor). I am saying that I am interested in a safe environment for Armenians in Russia, especially since Armenians treat Russians well compared to many other groups.

 

Look, violence is never a solution and these skinsheads are criminals, but the fact is that crime is having a negative effect on many Russian people, like drugs addicts and prostitution. The solutions are in law and order, family values and Orthodox religion.

 

And we have to do it ourselves, since the governement in more interested in an imperium then in the welfare of the people. What I mean is that Armenians and Russians on an individial level and local level, in Moscow and SFD should get to know each other and cooperate.

Edited December 12, 2005 by M_Karazov

[gamavor]

Look, violence is never a solution and these skinsheads are criminals, but the fact is that crime is having a negative effect on many Russian people, like drugs addicts and prostitution. The solutions are in law and order, family values and Orthodox religion.

 

And we have to do it ourselves, since the governement in more interested in an imperium then in the welfare of the people. What I mean is that Armenians and Russians on an individial level and local level, in Moscow and FSR should get to know each other and cooperate.

 

Well said Sir!

 

Welcome to HyeForum!

 

 

 

[kakachik77]

I agree it is a big number! Wouldn't it be nice if all of them can contribute to Armenia instead of Russia? Russia is a rich country. Armenia is poor.

 

Gamavor jan, people working in Russia contribute the most to Armenia via remittances as well as direct capital investments by some wealthy Russian Armenians (exp. North Avenue in Yerevan, check out where the money is coming from). More money flows to Russia from Armenia than from US. If Armenia wants to be a self-sufficient country without any economic support, it has to be like Japan during the 20th century - most of all think about the well being of the country, as opposed to the pockets of few puzati. This kind of mentally we will never obtain, unless if there is a revolution and people who take over are young educated armenians from around the world who REALLY care about the well-being of the nation and not what kind of car they drive.

[kakachik77]

Karazov, btw welcome to the forum!

 

Einstein once said "If I succeed in my experiments the Germans will call me a German and the French will call me a world citizen. However, if I fail the French will call me a German and the Germans will me a Jew!"

 

why did I bring this up? Indirectly this relates to the politics that the major powers play, the spin doctoring etc. Now, we have a Russia today that is largely an undemocratic country, with large income disparities and people are hungry and jobless and feel left out from the system while few are building palaces made of gold and buying soccer teams in London. How do they protect their power? Ohh, wait those poor Caucasian migrants, let's involve them in some crime and tell our people that whatever is wrong in Russia today is because of THEM! So this is how a Azeri cucumber salesman at a Russian farmers' market has been labeled a criminal. Why? Because certain governement entitiy has given them power to dominate the market industry for a hefty sum in return and the Russian peasant has been left out of the market. This way the government officials both make money and have someone to turn to if people come complaining - the dirty migrants. This rhetoric has been used in America so much particularly in regards to cheap agricultural labor used with Mexican migration, when we all know that it is really the American farmers that mostly benefit from this labor - low cost labor leads to more profit for them. And this applies to the construction industry in Russia etc where majority migrants work in.

 

No nationality should be threatened (perhaps except for Chechens since there is direct war) in "civilized democratic" Russia. Skinheads are sponsored by the government to spread havoc and create the tension in order for people to forget who the real problem is - the few that have the money.

 

When Armenians were building jet airplanes the protect the mother Russia they were called heroes, today they are called xachik or whatever (at least it is not gyavur "infidel" as were labeled by Young Turks). So I hope you got my point.

[M_Karazov]

Thanks both of you for welcoming me and I must agree with you on many things you said.

What you are writing is rooted in economical, sociological and historical sciences which many ordinary people have no clue about. Not so long we knew all abot class struggles, now nationality struggles are presented like being such a common thing. Like with everything important, ones in a while problems erupt, but they should not be exploited by the authorities, like is happening now.

 

And especially in a multinational country like Russia to stimulate ethnic problems is like playing with fire and can get out of hand totally. Coming back to your question about ethnic/separatists tensions in Russia, I would like to give you the whole picture. Russia consists of 7 federal districts, there are about 50 oblast (provinces), 20 autonomous republics for minority people and 5 krai (province containing minority autonomous regions.

 

The SFD has by far most serious problems, everybody knows about the situation in North-Caucasus and in Krasnodarsky and Stavropolsky Krai with xenophobic governors.

 

It should, however, not be an excuse for ordinary people not too live together in normal, friendly relations.

And IMO people Armenians and Russians should visit each others churches and cultural institutions and learn to get to know one another personally. That is the best solution to oppose troublemakers and also the most natural.

[M_Karazov]

This is what Moscow should be known for!!

 

Celebrations in Moscow earlier this year:

 

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4986/100002au.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4826/100018eo.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2673/100026zv.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6836/100041bc.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/740/10031736tg.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6876/10031743yj.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6956/10031786hr.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3153/10031911fw.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6900/10031929mh.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3755/10031941jt.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1027/10031962jr.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6364/10031994hb.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1604/10032447hz.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/4085/10033562da.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2449/10033814br.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/4138/10033867wj.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/851/10034441pm.jpg

Edited December 14, 2005 by M_Karazov

[Arpa]

I only opened the first two of those URLs and got the idea.

 

Is M O S C O W spelled the same as C H U R C H?

 

When are we/they going to shed those ridiculous halloween costumes and dress in trousers, shirt and tie like the rest of us?

Maybe then we will connect. Until then Moscow and Ejmiatisin can play those childish "dress-up" games to their "souls'" content.

[Boghos]

We, Armenians are specialists in mixing up Christian values with values for Christians.

[M_Karazov]

I only opened the first two of those URLs and got the idea.

 

Is M O S C O W spelled the same as C H U R C H?

 

When are we/they going to shed those ridiculous halloween costumes and dress in trousers, shirt and tie like the rest of us?

Maybe then we will connect. Until then Moscow and Ejmiatisin can play those childish "dress-up" games to their "souls'" content.

 

Hahaha!!! I agree that it is a very overdone, but I hope you get the picture. What I mean is that Moscow should be naturally more associated with the integration of the many parts of its history. Like take the best of Orthodox(bad choice of pictures by me actually, these are Old-Believers, same like Molokans in Armenia who are much more traditional, but in general thrustworthy, people then your average Moscovite) religion, the communist period (fair distribution of income) and post-soviet period with many new business opportunities and hopefully equal changes for everybody.

 

I think all post-soviet countries have to do a lot of soul searching for a new and progressive identity and combine this with the best values from its heritage. This is sometimes difficult and that's why some people import ideologies alien to the reality and nature of their countries like Wahabism in Chechnya and facism in Moscow. I don't know if this identify search, but also exploitation by political parties, has created extremists in Armenia as well, I only see about this in Slavonic and Islamic republics of CIS. What's your opinion about this??

[kakachik77]

Karazov,

 

I agree that both nationalities have to find more about each other. And when Russians do find out about Armenians, they might be pleasantly surprised to find out that your great Christian culture would not be there without Armenian direct influence via Byzantine Empire. Do you know how many Armenian emperors the Byzantine empire had?????? Passage from a book

"Byzantium - The Empire of the New Rome" by Cyril Mango.

 

'Among the new immigrants the most prominent, however were the Armenians, many of whom arrived without being forced to do so. The Armenians were excellent soldiers, and the Empire deprived of its Illyrian recruiting ground needed them badly. In fact, the immigration of Armenians had started in the 6th century, and from the reign of Maurice onwards they formed the backbone of the Byzantine army....Unlike the slavs, however, the Armenians quickly rose to prominent positions, even the imperial throne and dominated the military establishment throughtout the Middle Byzantine period.' p. 26.