Armenian Tamanian Division

[Armenian Highlander]

As I recall the Allies did win the First World War and in fact, did let Turkey swallow the first republic.  We didn't have to wait till WW2, we were already screwed.

 

Good point my friend. I guess simple logic eludes many people. Also, don't forget what the "noble victors" did, and are still trying to do, to Nakhijevan and Artsakh. If the "Allies" had their way, there would not be any Armenia to speak of.

 

I, personally, think that Armenia would have been better off had the Germans won the Second World War. In my opinion, the Germans were very aware of the strategic value of the Caucasus and, thus, would not have turned the Caucasus region into a Turkic stronghold. Moreover, the Third Reich did not have any problems with Armenians, whom they concidered Aryans. Contrary to popular belief, the Third Reich only had problems with Jews and Communists. In other words, unlike Stalin, who went on a rampage killing millions of his own countrymen, the Germans had good taste.

 

Unfortunately, however, Germans looked down at the Slavic poulation as sub-human. I think this unwarrented hotility towards Slavs eventually led to their final destruction. Anyway, this is all hypothetical and we could discuss this, to no avail, until kingdom come.

 

Getting back to the topic at hand: If it was not for some miscalculations of the Nazi leadership, coupled with the <> stubborn determination of the Russians, the Third Reich would have won the war hands down - regardless of how much money, manpower and materials USA pumped into the war effort.

[Artsakh]

No. the germans whould have killed them (Drastamat Kanayan and company ), and forced Armenia into their own administration or even worse: let turkey swallow Armenia for once and forever! one should never have any illusions when it comes to nation-killers: the nazies.

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I don't think the Nazis would have killed Dro. On the contrary, he was awarded medals by the German army. This guy was such a warrior that the Germans themselves nicknamed him the "Hyra hunter". It would nice if you didn't speak of Armenia and say "Let turks swallow Armenia". Would you wish the same for your family and yourself?. The nazis are the nation killers???? What exactly are the turks?they taught the Nazis everything they needed to know. And i am guessing that you are not referring to the Jews, because surely we all know that they are not a nation. So which nation are they killers of?

Edited May 16, 2005 by Artsakh

[Artsakh]

who deleted my post and why? what is this censorship all about?

[ED]

I did, and was made invisible

 

Why? for offensive language!!

I will make it visible again so you can edit it, failure to do so will result in another warning

 

You must realize, if you want to post here you have to learn to conduct your self according to CODE OF CONDUCT of this forum.

 

PS. I could have warned you without this post, so edit your post which was made invisible

 

Edward

Moderating team

Edited May 16, 2005 by Edward

[vava]

Further to Edward's note:

 

Racist and/or discriminatory material will not be tolerated here. Those of you who feel compelled to disseminate your propaganda will quickly find yourselves removed from our memberlist. If you wish to talk about Armenians, you're more than welcome. On the other hand, if you are so one track minded that all you can speak of are jews, I'm sure there are other forums (white supremists, neo-nazis, etc.) that will welcome you with open arms. You've been cautioned.

[shaunt]

Historically, Russia has always solved Europe’s problems.  The Golden Horde, Napoleon, and various other threats to Europe have always been stopped at Russia.  No army stands a chance against the Russian burn policy.

 

I'm sorry, the Golden Horde was no longer in existence as a political unit when Ivan the Terrible began his conquests of the Mongol khanates. And the Golden Horde ceased being a threat to Europe far before they were defeated by the Russians.

 

So the Napoleonic Wars ended with Napoleon's failed expedition to Russia? Need I remind you that Napoleon returned to Paris, and was able to raise another grand army?

 

I just resent the fact that Americans continually downplay the contributions of Soviet divisions like the Tamanian in order to bolster their Capitalistic ideals.  Ever since WW2, the justification of the U.S. foreign policy revolves around "spreading democracy", omitting the fact that if communism/socialism spread they would lose access to global markets.  Let us be honest with ourselves, the Soviets contributed far more in terms of resources.  Yes, the allies did supply them, but without the Soviet man power they would have lost.

 

Americans do not downplay Soviet contributions, but people like you do downplay the contributions of the Western world. And you know what, without a Western front to worry about, the Germans would've slaughtered whatever remained of the Russians, and with good cause too.

 

PS: TMNT, my original comment on Soviet soldiers raping German women had nothing to do with downplaying Soviet contributions to the war. It's part of my view of how biased praise and blame, and morality are. Plus, I'm mega Germanophile (Prussophile would be more precise).

Edited May 17, 2005 by shaunt

[Anahit]

We didn't have to wait till WW2, we were already screwed.

 

“BEING ALREADY SCREWED” AND “getting more screwed” are different things… I can’t imagine worse case than thinking of the nation-killers, the Nazi Germany, winning the war and ARMENIA ( tu, tu, tu Astvaz chani) somehow benefiting from it along with Germany! I hate repeating myself, but again: one should never trust/have any illusions when it comes to killers!

 

I, personally, think that Armenia would have been better off had the Germans won the Second World War.

 

Vay, Astvats im!!!!! Amboxj marmnovs doxum em ays mtkic….

 

In my opinion, the Germans were very aware of the strategic value of the Caucasus and, thus, would not have turned the Caucasus region into a Turkic stronghold.

 

Maybe yes, maybe not. They might have as well “traded” it for another good region in the world… Anyway, thanks USSR and others and every every single person who fought against Germany and stopped them!!!!

 

It would nice if you didn't speak of Armenia and say "Let turks swallow Armenia". Would you wish the same for your family and yourself?.

 

I MEANT: “germans would have let turks swallow Armenia”,!!!!!! My family members WERE KILEED BUY THEM!

 

The nazis are the nation killers???? What exactly are the turks?

 

YES. THE SAME.

 

And i am guessing that you are not referring to the Jews, because surely we all know that they are not a nation.

 

I am, BUT NOT ONLY. WHY NOT ???????????

 

I always though and think that people who don’t have “borders”___countries___are also nations: AZG. MAYBE THERE IS A BETTER WORD IN ENGLISH U COULD TELL ME, BUT EVEN IN CHINESE IT’S THE SAME: NATION=民族 AS WELL AS国家。

 

I have heard and read some armenians saying they wish nazies had won. I COULDN'T , CAN'T & NEVER WILL BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND HOW CAN ARMENIANS, WHO KNOW WHAT IS A GENOCIDE EVER THINK LIKE THAT! Let the souls of the killed ones forgive them...

 

 

 

fixed the quotes

Edited May 17, 2005 by Anahit

[shaunt]

Further to Edward's note:

 

Racist and/or discriminatory material will not be tolerated here. Those of you who feel compelled to disseminate your propaganda will quickly find yourselves removed from our memberlist. If you wish to talk about Armenians, you're more than welcome. On the other hand, if you are so one track minded that all you can speak of are jews, I'm sure there are other forums (white supremists, neo-nazis, etc.) that will welcome you with open arms. You've been cautioned.

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About time.

 

Please direct all anti-semites over to stormfront.org.

[vava]

....

I always though and think that people who don’t have “borders”___countries___are also nations: AZG. MAYBE THERE IS A BETTER WORD IN ENGLISH U COULD TELL ME, BUT EVEN IN CHINESE IT’S THE SAME: NATION=民族 AS WELL AS国家。

 

I have heard and read some armenians saying they wish nazies had won. I COULDN'T , CAN'T & NEVER WILL BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND HOW CAN ARMENIANS, WHO KNOW WHAT IS A GENOCIDE EVER THINK LIKE THAT!  Let the souls of the killed ones forgive them...

fixed the quotes

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Azg, nation, race, it all means the same thing fundamentally. Anahit, I agree with you 100%.

 

Btw, do you speak chinese? Wow. that is impressive

[vava]

About time.

 

Please direct all anti-semites over to stormfront.org.

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Shaunt, feel free to report offensive posts if you do so happen to see them. The mods can't always be on-line

[TMNT]

Good point my friend. I guess simple logic eludes many people. Also, don't forget what the "noble victors" did, and are still trying to do, to Nakhijevan and Artsakh. If the "Allies" had their way, there would not be any Armenia to speak of.

 

AH, good to see your back.

[Boghos]

France capitulated in a metter of days.

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Which reminds me of the "how many...does it take" type joke: how many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris ? Nobody knows, it has never been done.

[Anahit]

Btw, do you speak chinese? Wow. that is impressive

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Yes, Vava jan, I do speak chinese, i even study in chinese. and i really love chinese language!

[armjan]

Yes, Vava jan, I do speak chinese, i even study in chinese. and i really love chinese language! 

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the thnig that confuses me about chinese is that they have 300 gizalion bazillion characters and each character can be interpreted as a phrase(combination of characters ). So how can one learn chinese in a finite amount of time?

I don't get it , would u plz elaborate!

Edited May 19, 2005 by armjan

[Azat]

that is because it is not 300 gizalion bazillion it is 450 gizalion bazillion. You had just missed almost 50% of the characters and that is why everything was confusing...

[Armenian Highlander]

Which reminds me of the "how many...does it take" type joke: how many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris ? Nobody knows, it has never been done.

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Well, actually you have brought up a good point.

 

However, the essential reason why the French, at times, surrender their cities to the enemy is because they don't want them destroyed while "defending" it. French citites are perhaps the finest in the world, and the French know it. The French also know what happenes to such cities during war time. A similar situation happened with Rome. The Germans gave up Rome so that it would not be destroyed by American bombers.

 

Anyway, if it was not for the French, Americans would not have gotten their idea for independence. If it was not for the French, Americans would have not been able to fight the Brits off. Throughout history the French have been one of the finest fighting forces in Europe. Look at the Crusades, look at Napoleon, look at the French Legion.

 

Its time to put aside stupid American propaganda and start enjoying some French Fries (which are not French by the way).

[gamavor]

Its time to put aside stupid American propaganda and start enjoying some French Fries (which are not French by the way).

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They are Belgian in origin I think. If it were not the French, Americans wouldn't have had statue of Liberty.

 

As to the American propaganda, stupid Americans love to say that if it weren't the Americans, French would have speak German now, forgeting that if it weren't the Soviets, Americans for sure would have speak German or Japanease.

Edited May 19, 2005 by gamavor

[Anahit]

the thnig that confuses me about chinese is that they have 300 gizalion bazillion characters and each character can be interpreted as a phrase(combination of characters ). So how can one learn chinese in a finite amount of time?

I don't get it , would u plz elaborate!

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Will be more than happy to. You see, it is said and believed all over the world, that Chinese is “THE MOST DIFFICULT LANGUAGE” to learn, or at least “very very difficult”. IT IS NOT TRUE! When I say it is a very easy language, people react: “yes, for you, you are good at languages, you like studying… bla bla bla”. Ectually, the only difficulty acuars with people who have problems with sounds: “slux chunen” like we say in Armenia, cause Chinese language (mandarin) has 4 (as said, but, actually 5 if we count the natural tone too) tones. So if one can’t even distinguish the tones he hears, of course he can’t pronounce them correctly as well. And THAT is the most important thing. For example “MA” pronounced in 5 different tones has completely different meanings. That’s also why there are always subtitles in Chinese MTVs .But when it comes to grammar… oh, nothing to learn AT ALL (well, 99%, if u rather) !!!! There are no tenses, no… how you say it in English… “xonarhumner”… u just add a word, like “yesterday” or “tomorrow” and the same sentence. Or just the same sentence, only put “ma” in the end, and it becomes interrogative sentence… very very easy!

As for the writing…. Well, here u need quite a good memory, and must write often! Every time when I leave China for vocations (2-3 months) I forget how to write lots of characters, BUT I NEVER FORGET HOW TO READ, OR WHAT THEY MEAN: it stays in the brain for ever, I guess. Even Chinese people, even my professors forget how to write certain characters, if they don’t use it often, so it is fine here there are bunch of characters, that are used A LOT! After u get to know them, 90 % of others are just consist of this characters, their “keys”… do I make any sense to you?? I hope i do… here is an example: “一”（ONE） “人” （PERSON ）put both together， and u get “大”（BIG）。 "田" FIELD & "力" strength， put together， u get 男 man/male。Yes, each of the characters can have, and DO HAVE few meanings. Some of them even have different pronunciations… but u get used to it.

What I love about this language is, that u don’t just read letters, but get a hole story from each character! I can always explain myself better in Chinese, especially in written Chinese, thanks to characters, then other languages. Characters have deep meanings, each of them is a story, SOMETHING, not just a word, that wouldn’t mean much if used all alone… one character can be more than enough to explain the most complicated state of somebody/something.

Oh well... i am getting annoying, i guess,so these much for now, I hope I made some sense

By the way, I have learnt Chinese in China from the very beginning, for 4 years : actually have BA in chinese. But 4 years is too much, 1-2 is fine FOR GOOD STUDENTS!!!!!! Bad students will easily learn to speak, but forget about writing or reading.

[Boghos]

Well, actually you have brought up a good point.

 

However, the essential reason why the French, at times, surrender their cities to the enemy is because they don't want them destroyed while "defending" it. French citites are perhaps the finest in the world, and the French know it. The French also know what happenes to such cities during war time. A similar situation happened with Rome. The Germans gave up Rome so that it would not be destroyed by American bombers.

 

Anyway, if it was not for the French, Americans would not have gotten their idea for independence. If it was not for the French, Americans would have not been able to fight the Brits off. Throughout history the French have been one of the finest fighting forces in Europe. Look at the Crusades, look at Napoleon, look at the French Legion.

 

Its time to put aside stupid American propaganda and start enjoying some French Fries (which are not French by the way).

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I have nothing against the French. I also think that American anti-French hysteria is overdone. Naturally the anti-American sentiment that prevails in the European continent also stems partially from ignorance.

 

But to say that if were not for France the Americans "would not have gotten their idea for independence" is not only factually wrong but defies logic. It is like saying: "Oh, now that I read a book I will fight for independence", this world only exist in romanced versions of history and its cinematic illustrations.

 

Crusades ? Yes, what about them? French Legion? what about a mercenary force sponsored by the state?

 

France has countless admirable offerings. We need not invent more.

[Anoushik]

Ectually, the only difficulty acuars with people who have problems with sounds: “slux chunen” like we say in Armenia, cause Chinese language (mandarin) has 4 (as said, but, actually 5 if we count the natural tone too) tones. So if one can’t even distinguish the tones he hears, of course he can’t pronounce them correctly as well. And THAT is the most important thing. For example “MA” pronounced in 5 different tones has completely different meanings.

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That's pretty interesting. Could that account for why so many Asians have perfect pitch, namely the Chinese and the Vietnamese? I read somewhere that the Vietnamese language also uses tones.

[Anahit]

That's pretty interesting. Could that account for why so many Asians have perfect pitch, namely the Chinese and the Vietnamese? I read somewhere that the Vietnamese language also uses tones.

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Yes, everybody says so. Vietnamese also has 5 tones. Cantonese (chinese, mainly spoken in HongKong and Guangdong province [Canton] of China) has even 7 tones!!!

[Anoushik]

What exactly do you mean by 7 tones? Does that mean that the word "Ma" could be pronounced 7 different ways?

 

... now I am not that surprised anymore when my Chinese classmates describe to me the incredibly tough Aural Skills (ear-training) they had to endure in China! What we do in the U.S. is nothing compared to their musicianship training

[Harut]

long live Chinese speaking Armenian Tamanian Division...

[shaunt]

Do you mind defining what an "anti-semite" is?

 

First off, Arabs are semites. In such case, Jews must be "anti-semitic" because they hate Arabs.

 

Secondly, would opposing Jewish organizations who, driven by greed, work against the recognition of the Armenian Genocide by the US Gov't be considered as Anti-semitism?

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Anti, from the Greek "anti," meaning opposite. Semite, a member of a Semitic speaking group of peoples.

 

And yeah, Jews can definitely be anti-semites too. And no, opposing them is no problem. But most people are doing more than showing opposition.

 

PS: Being Jewish means more than accepting certain religious doctrines.

[skhara]

Its time to put aside stupid American propaganda and start enjoying some French Fries (which are not French by the way).

 

Never! They shall forever remain Freedom-Fries to me!! I shall never forgive the frogs for betraying our democracy-spreading president. Long Live Democracy! Dam them freedom hating haters! Off to the SAMsCLUB to purchase some cheap French wine, which I will of coarse be pouring down the sewer. Feel Free to come take pictures.

Edited May 21, 2005 by skhara