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A Gender Issue Or A Religious Matter?


Siamanto

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Milan bans Da Vinci parody

 

Sophie Arie in Rome

Friday February 4, 2005

The Guardian

 

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/red/blue_pics/2005/02/04/lastsupper3426236werwerere3.jpg

 

The Last Supper advertisement for Marithé and François Girbaud

'A tribute to women' ... The Last Supper advertisement for Marithé and François

Girbaud

 

 

Scantily clad women help sell cars. And there's nothing wrong with using the odd man in a G-string to advertise shoes.

 

But when a clothes company tried presenting a group of well-dressed women in a Last Supper style pose, their poster campaign was banned in Milan.

 

The poster, by French fashion house Marithé and François Gribaud, is a version of Leonardo da Vinci's work with an almost all-female cast. Angelic-looking women clad in the company's "casual chic" pose around a long table as Christ and his apostles. One man, John the Apostle, sits on a woman's lap, his torso bare and jeans riding low.

 

The poster has been plastered on walls, billboards and magazines in New York and Paris for weeks. In Milan, where Leonardo's fresco is preserved and the influence of the Vatican is never far away, city authorities have banned it.

 

Their decision follows a ruling by the city advertising watchdog last month. This Last Supper "inevitably recalls the very foundations of the Christian faith", said the Istituto di Autodisciplina Pubblicitaria. "This kind of image, with a high concentration of theological symbols, cannot be recreated and paro died for commercial ends without offending the religious sensitivities of at least part of the population."

 

"One of the women apostles is kissing the naked torso of a man, which just makes the imitation more offensive. As does the use of Christian symbols like the dove, the chalice and the position of the fingers of the female Christ."

 

....

 

The company says the image is not offensive but a tribute to women. It was inspired by Dan Brown's bestseller The Da Vinci Code, which suggests that the figure of John in Da Vinci's masterpiece is actually Mary Magdalen in disguise.

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,12...1405751,00.html

Edited by Siamanto
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I'll make sure not to make a scene next time we have our get-together. Not to mention that the seating appropriated by Leonardo and the West might be inaccurate, according to a few historians who have other contemporary accounts of such seating, where the master of the table is not seated in the middle.
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I'll make sure not to make a scene next time we have our get-together. Not to mention that the seating appropriated by Leonardo and the West might be inaccurate, according to a few historians who have other contemporary accounts of such seating, where the master of the table is not seated in the middle.

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i will make this short.

i can't/niether would want to call a black person as a N*gger, why, b/c that is offensive to them.

but when it comes to christianity/religion in general, this kind of intollerance is tolerated, double standard.

 

it's really simple, if a budda statue means something to someone else, why the hell would i want to degrade it? if it means something to them, let them have it and do with it however they please. it's not any of my biz.

 

i predict shortly, we're gonna have a comment from someone who doesn't believe in christianity saying, "well, how is the image derogatory?"

if you have to ask, then you wouldn't understand/accept the reasoning.

 

as far as the accuracy of the portrait of the last supper, again, it's what the portrait means/signifies/resembles and not that Jesus was facing eastward sitting 3 ft away from bob hope.

Edited by armjan
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"The Last Supper" is a painting, not a photograph, and, even if it were, by this sort of a reaction - as in "banning" an ad by an institute for "autodiscipline" - a lot of people will be tickled to assert their right to freedom of expression, even if in the commercial world, and carry out more similar acts to become "the talk"...

Overall I think it stinks as an ad, but no-one is putting it or the urinated image of Christ on the crucifix in a church. Moreover, people have to realise that "others" are not "out there to degrade" their everything. No-one has a copyright on the posture of the seated Buddha, the Mermaid in Copenhagen, the Thinker, or Leonardo's figures in The Last Supper.

 

I say, to top it all, let the advertiser turn that ad upside down. http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10875&hl=

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"The Last Supper" is a painting, not a photograph, and, even if it were, by this sort of a reaction - as in "banning" an ad by an institute for "autodiscipline" - a lot of people will be tickled to assert their right to freedom of expression, even if in the commercial world, and carry out more similar acts to become "the talk"...

Overall I think it stinks as an ad, but no-one is putting it or the urinated image of Christ on the crucifix in a church. Moreover, people have to realise that "others" are not "out there to degrade" their everything. No-one has a copyright on the posture of the seated Buddha, the Mermaid in Copenhagen, the Thinker, or Leonardo's figures in The Last Supper.

 

I say, to top it all, let the advertiser turn that ad upside down. http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10875&hl=

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the difference between photo and paiting is not what's important.

it's what it resembles that is being degraded.

 

you got the big guy "explaining Passover in terms of his own sacrifice for the sins of the world."

 

the picture subsitutes J.C. with some confused anorexic chick, and u got some guyz ass crack showing while he's feeling some other chik, and a bunch of girls about to engage in lesbian/orgy with their feet crossing, not to mention the flat chested girls with thier chests exposed.

who you bang/how/why has no place in the last supper.

 

and all this freedom of expression bull, come on, freedom of speech & expression should be complemented with respect and tolerance for different beliefs, so it's a cop out to say that it infringes freedom of expression.

 

"Moreover, people have to realise that "others" are not "out there to degrade" their everything."

-that's niave. there are ppl with agenda's that have deep hatred towards christian faith, homo's are an example.

 

a copyright is a term used in law for accountablity & liability. it has no place in faith or human feelings.

so the word NIG*ER isn't copyrighted, but try to mention this at work and i assure you will be fired to say the least.

 

when was the last time you saw Budda sucking on a banana? christians are open-season b/c everyone can mock J.C. but almost never have I seen King David(Judiasm/Moses), Mohammad(islam), or budda purposely degraded.

Edited by armjan
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The ad is designed to get people's attention, and obviously it has.

 

Yet, no hedonist could do more damage to Jesus' image lately than the Church itself.

 

How many children have been sexually abused? Tens of thousands!!!!! And the hierarchy of the Church looked the other way, condoned it. Most of those abused are still keeping quiet, feeling shame for what they had little control over.

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The ad is designed to get people's attention, and obviously it has.

 

Yet, no hedonist could do more damage to Jesus' image lately than the Church itself.

 

How many children have been sexually abused? Tens of thousands!!!!! And the hierarchy of the Church looked  the other way, condoned it. Most of those abused are still keeping quiet, feeling shame for what they had little control over.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

the perputators of these crimes have been few in #. I don't consider these ppl to be of true conviction.

 

but none of these things are supported/condoned in the christian faith. to be honest, I can't imagine how this sort nonesense could have been tolerated among the faithful.

moreover, the role of the church through human history has been to abolish the sexual/physical exploitation of children. simply look back at the biggest proponents to abolish child labor and sexual exploitation of children.

 

a few of Catholic Churches accomplishments...

In 92 the Catholic Church ran:

- 5,478 Hospitals with 4,500 million patients treated;

- 27,281 Homes for the aged, homeless, and handicapped;

 

7,102 Orphanages, 9,293 Nurseries, 97,823 Special Centers for Social Services, 8,216 Matrimonial Advice Centers... and practically "billions" attended in their "homes", for sickness, aged, children, emotional problems, marriages, drugs, alcohol...

 

80,612 Elementary and Primary Schools; 6,400 Colleges and Universities...

 

A total of 1,077,754 persons with the "votes of poverty, chastity, and obedience"...neither one has a bank account, and neither one gets married, to be full time available, totally dedicated to serve God and the neighbor

 

not to forget the amazing deeds of mother teresa and countless others.

 

to be honest with you, if they are helping the needy why is that such a bad thing. when was the last time these critics took a homeless person off the street, or helped a drug addict overcome thier addiction. most sit in their homes & living rooms, thinking about all the things that are wrong with the world yet none of them do a damn thing tryin to better someone's life if it disturbes their convenience and interests. how do i know this? look around, everybody is workin 24/7 and so preoccupied chasing after material wealth.

 

u c, I don't care if they don't do it, as long as they recognize that there are those who give up thier own dreams to help the needy. And i am not only talking about christians, I am talking about any one that is compelled by their faith to act upon easing someone else's pain.

 

Just to give u a quick example, I know of 1 person who visited thailand recently as a tourist and he witnessed the sexual exploitation of young girls, and he decided to move there permanently & teach in the local schools in hopes of raising awareness and help those through the circumstances.

Edited by armjan
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to add a few more comments to what armjan has said above.

 

Catholic church is the biggest land owner in the US. Yet not a penny in property tax.

 

Catholic church is the biggest owner of hospitals. And they are not hospitals for free or anything, 100% for profit. Yet not a penny in taxes. go to Glendale Advantised and tell them you dont have money but you would like to get a procedure done and see how many minutes it takes for the security guard to come and kick your ass in the street.

 

Universities for profit. and not a penny in taxes.

 

i have no issue with for profit organization, in fact the opposite i love them, but please dont make it sound that it is done out of the goodness of their heart.

 

and yes it is thue that the church is against the abuse of any kind of children and it was not the church but the people employed by the church(this does make the church indirectly responsible but that is not why i think the churc was wrong) but what really sucked was that the church tried to cover it complete and instead of reporting all the criminal behavior all they did was cover it up and move these horrible crimes to other cities. Sick...

----------------------------------------

as for the ad it did exactly what it was designed for, get our attention.

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and all this freedom of expression bull, come on, freedom of speech & expression should be complemented with respect and tolerance for different beliefs, so it's a cop out to say that it infringes freedom of expression.

 

"Moreover, people have to realise that "others" are not "out there to degrade" their everything."

-that's niave. there are ppl with agenda's that have deep hatred towards christian faith, homo's are an example.

style_images/master/snapback.png

These ads do nothing more than expose the insecurities of certain persons. I see the ad, make the connection, think it sucks like so many others out there, turn away, forget about it. You see it, freak out, go on about it, bore me. I don't find it degrading. I don't get delighted that someone out there has freaked and cried "No fair!"...

I won't even go into the homophobic BS.

Moreover, if indeed there are people who want to hurt sensitivities, you've just given them what they desired. Just turn the other cheek and go on with your life.

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to add a few more comments to what armjan has said above.

 

Catholic church is the biggest land owner in the US.  Yet not a penny in property tax.

 

Catholic church is the biggest owner of hospitals.  And they are not hospitals for free or anything, 100% for profit.  Yet not a penny in taxes.  go to Glendale Advantised and tell them you dont have money but you would like to get a procedure done and see how many minutes it takes for the security guard to come and kick your ass in the street.

 

Universities for profit.  and not a penny in taxes. 

 

i have no issue with for profit organization, in fact the opposite i love them, but please dont make it sound that it is done out of the goodness of their heart.

 

and yes it is thue that the church is against the abuse of any kind of children and it was not the church but the people employed by the church(this does make the church indirectly responsible but that is not why i think the churc was wrong) but what really sucked was that the church tried to cover it complete and instead of reporting all the criminal behavior all they did was cover it up and move these horrible crimes to other cities. Sick...

----------------------------------------

as for the ad it did exactly what it was designed for, get our attention.

style_images/master/snapback.png

Not to mention that Spain, who Christianised the Americas on behalf of the Vatican, has no-one left to apologise to, having killed off at least two civilisations in their quest to convert the New World - how rosy - but that's a story for another day.

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Catholic church is the biggest land owner in the US.  Yet not a penny in property tax.

 

and yes it is thue that the church is against the abuse of any kind of children and it was not the church but the people employed by the church(this does make the church indirectly responsible but that is not why i think the churc was wrong) but what really sucked was that the church tried to cover it complete and instead of reporting all the criminal behavior all they did was cover it up and move these horrible crimes to other cities. Sick...

----------------------------------------

as for the ad it did exactly what it was designed for, get our attention.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

yes, i think the cover up was a load of nonesense & is absolutely disgusting. Shame on all those involved to support an evil act against those poor innocent children.

 

I thought the government was the biggest land owner in the U.S?

I didn't know that the CC owned so much, and I wonder why they dont' pay a penny in property tax. do u know y?

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"I see the ad, make the connection, think it sucks like so many others out there, turn away, forget about it."

then y r u wasting our time starting a thread on it.

 

I won't even go into the homophobic BS.

1.homophobic word came out of you not me. it's a reflection of u'r thought process, not mine.

 

2.the words lesbian and homo(homosexuals) are not derogotory. I didn't say anything derogatory about them. read my post, better yet i don't care if you read it, as long as u provide proof for your false accusations. believe me, you will know when i say something derogatory about these ppl.

 

3. if someone speaks out against it, then you call them homophobic, but if they speak to support it, u call that progressive. I reject your deposit on this logic/lack of.

 

4.the same freedom of expression you were out to defend(the artists), you are crying "No Fair" after reading my response. think about it.

 

my response above was simply describing what i saw in the picture that you posted. whether u agree or disagree, i don't live with u so i don't care if u agree or not.

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yes, i think the cover up was a load of nonesense & is absolutely disgusting. Shame on all those involved to support an evil act against those poor innocent children.

 

I thought the government was the biggest land owner in the U.S?

I didn't know that the CC owned so much, and I wonder why they dont' pay a penny in property tax. do u know y?

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Sorry I did assume aside from the government as just the public highways alone would surpass all the land owned by the Roman Catholic Church. By the way second is McDonald's after the church.

 

As for taxes I am not sure what law it is but there is a law that allows non profit organizations and religious organizations to not pay taxes, thus also donations to those organizations are tax free. Maybe someone who knows will write why. It may be the separation of church and state but I am not sure.

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Not to mention that Spain, who Christianised the Americas on behalf of the Vatican, has no-one left to apologise to, having killed off at least two civilisations in their quest to convert the New World - how rosy - but that's a story for another day.

style_images/master/snapback.png

It is almost surrealistic to see how a member of the most genocidal and barbarian Nation of looters accuses another Nation for having "killed ..at least two civilsations."

It is true that the Spaniards have committed many atrocities; but, it is also true that all across Latin America

there still exists many Native American regions/villages where the Spanish is inexistent and not learned.

Furthermore, in many countries of Latin America Native Americans are still a Majority!

 

How many Armenian, Assyrian or Greek regions/villages still exist in TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey?

What an "aneres" hypocrite! Hem ouyouz, hem yav@z!

Edited by Siamanto
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It is almost surrealistic to see how a member of the most genocidal and barbarian  Nation of looters accuses another Nation for having "killed ..at least two civilsations."

It is true that the Spaniards have committed many atrocities; but, it is also true that all across Latin America

there still exists many Native American regions/villages where the Spanish is inexistent and not learned.

Furthermore, in many countries of Latin America Native Americans are still a Majority!

 

How many Armenian, Assyrian or Greek regions/villages still exist in TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey?

What an "aneres" hypocrite! Hem ouyouz, hem yav@z!

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Hypocrasy is about double standards, and I fail to see any double standards displayed by Stormy, since she recognise any crimes including those pereptrated by her nation.

 

Every members of this board should be treated based on what they say and not their ethnicity.

 

As for "most barbarian," it is understandble that each group want to consider its genocide as the worst, it is in the human nature.

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Hypocrasy is about double standards, and I fail to see any double standards displayed by Stormy, since she recognise any crimes including those pereptrated by her nation.

 

Every members of this board should be treated based on what they say and not their ethnicity.

 

As for "most barbarian," it is understandble that each group want to consider its genocide as the worst, it is in the human nature.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

La patrie se defend! :)

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Paranoia? The possibility did not occur to me!

Do you sense paranoia in yourself? :)

As for myself, shall/do I have reasons to be paranoid? :)

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From when paranoia is a possibility that occur to someone? I thought it was an uncontroled emotion. Or perhaps am I reading too much between the lines? :)

 

No! there is no reason for you to be paranoiac, but if questioning my honesty here wasn't sarcasm, I don't see any other possibility. :P

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...it was an uncontroled emotion. Or perhaps am I reading too much between the lines?  :)

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How would you call that? For lack of a better word, shall we call it "paranoia?" :)

 

 

 

 

but if questioning my honesty here wasn't sarcasm, I don't see any other possibility.  :P

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An infinite numbers of Universes and no other possibility? What are the odds? :)

 

It would have been "perceptive" of you to notice the sarcasm :); but, when did I "question your honesty?"

"Do I sense paranoia?" :)

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