Azat Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6653824/site/newsweek/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 (edited) Azat, Aren't you taking it a bit too literally? "Fairy tales" are necessary to "package" and "market" a Philosphy, a Thought System or a Software Product. But, shouldn't we distinguish the package/ad from the product? Would Managers and Salesmen understand a highly technical Design Document? No! Of course, I'm not justifying or criticizing those "fairy tales." But, let's not confuse the ads and the product! I'm not religious, but I find that Christianity offers much more than the "fairy tales" we learn as a child! Edited February 21, 2005 by Armen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Azat, Another question: are "fairy tales" necessarily "negative?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted February 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) I have never said it is negative, but the idea of a man in the sky doing things is a fairy tale till there is proof. If I question your religion maybe you can question my religion (Atheism). Edited February 21, 2005 by Armen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) If I question your religion maybe you can question my religion (Atheism). style_images/master/snapback.png You see Anoushik. Edited the quote: Armen Edited February 21, 2005 by Armen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armjan Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6653824/site/newsweek/ style_images/master/snapback.png where are the facts to justify the other notions?they seem to be opinions. now whether truth behind it or not is a personal decision to make. Edited February 20, 2005 by armjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 You see Anoushik. Edited the quote: Armen style_images/master/snapback.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6653824/site/newsweek/ style_images/master/snapback.png I read the whole thing earlier tonight. Isn't it interesting how people don't scrutinize much about angels appearing before people's eyes and God talking to people but wonder how Mary could have been a virigin giving birth to Jesus? Azat, I liked the article. Thank you It's always nice to learn something new, like reading about the pagan traditions and the custom to make the births of great leaders seem like divine births. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 I read the whole thing earlier tonight. Isn't it interesting how people don't scrutinize much about angels appearing before people's eyes and God talking to people but wonder how Mary could have been a virigin giving birth to Jesus? As far as virgin births are concerned I posted something here recently http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10579 Azat, I liked the article. Thank you It's always nice to learn something new, like reading about the pagan traditions and the custom to make the births of great leaders seem like divine births. style_images/master/snapback.png And as for pagan traditions (or any other traditions) it does not mean that Christians copied such traditions. It is actually the opposite. There have been divine births in the history before and after Jesus's birth, and some traditions will of course imitate it for whatever reason. When there is widespread ignorance many things get abused and corrupted. That does not mean everything is a lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 If you ask me, "divine birth" or "immaculate conception" sound like very fancy terms for basically saying "unplanned pregnancy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 If you ask me, "divine birth" or "immaculate conception" sound like very fancy terms for basically saying "unplanned pregnancy" style_images/master/snapback.png You don't know much, do you? No wonder nobody asks you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraHye Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 What are the definitions of divine birth and immaculate conception Sip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 What are the definitions of divine birth and immaculate conception Sip. style_images/master/snapback.png Hey, hey.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 All I know (which may not be much), is that I think if I lived 2000 years ago, I might have been able to convince a girl to announce Immaculate Conception to her parents rather than tell them what really happened and how the condom just slipped because I was an idiot ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 All I know (which may not be much), is that I think if I lived 2000 years ago, I might have been able to convince a girl to announce Immaculate Conception to her parents rather than tell them what really happened and how the condom just slipped because I was an idiot ... style_images/master/snapback.png That's only a speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 (edited) All I know (which may not be much), is that I think if I lived 2000 years ago, I might have been able to convince a girl to announce Immaculate Conception to her parents rather than tell them what really happened and how the condom just slipped because I was an idiot ... style_images/master/snapback.png Shush Sip! You don't know much! :) Don't you know we are surrounded by theo-scientists here? Is that an oxymororn??!! Long before the invention of the condom-mondom the stories were that a young lady had sat down on the wet floors of the hamam in the early morning right after the male bathers had left, who may have left some tell tale traces of semen in the the sip I mean soup. And of course the original inventors of "immaculate conception" had stories like the "wind penetrating the water" and the "fire consuming the wind". That is how Zeus and Hera would conceive Hercules. Not to forget Aramazt caressing Anahit's hair and conceiving Vahagn. And to think that after 4000 years there still may be those among us who still beileve that babies come from a cabbage patch. We should leave them alone lest they wak up and discover the god given sciences of anatomy and physiology. Edited February 21, 2005 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 (edited) Just a reminder of scientific facts http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10579 . I can understand why many people don't believe what they can't see, but apparently some people don't believe even if they see. Talk about dogmas and rigid indoctrination... Edited February 21, 2005 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armjan Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 (edited) its fair to say that if u had been divine(in biblical sense), then perhaps you would have had a divine birth(from a biblical sense) and you wouldn't be complaining now Edited February 22, 2005 by armjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 (edited) Folks, wouldn’t it be more dignified (and humanistic) to consider Jesus as an exceptional human being, one of the greatest philosophers in the history and the founder of a most influential and humanistic religion, instead of making him a supernatural character from folklore? Moreover, this story has distinct connotations with the Greek myth of Perseus. Acrisius, King of Argos, had a daughter named Danae. The oracle of Delphi told Acrisius that Danae's son would one day kill him. To prevent this from happening, Acrisius locked Danae in a bronze tower so that she would never meet any men and have children. Danae was very beautiful, so Zeus got interested. He transformed himself into a shower of golden rain and sneaked into the tower were and "poured" his love on Danae. Soon Danae gave birth to a boy, Perseus… Edited February 22, 2005 by Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Folks, wouldn’t it be more dignified - and humanistic, to consider Jesus as an exceptional human being, one of the greatest philosophers in the history of mankind and a fouder of a most influential and humanistic religion, instead of making him a supernatural character from folklore whose mom was, moreover, a cheat? style_images/master/snapback.png Absolutely and amen to that! I hate when people try to associate all this hocus pocus divine God bull crap to someone as great as Jesus. Jesus didn't need no God to be the greatest human to have ever lived and anyone who claims otherwise ... well, I'll kick you in the nu*z Oh maybe I should listen to Arpa more often and shush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armjan Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 (edited) "Jesus didn't need no God to be the greatest human to have ever lived" -where do we start with this one, better yet, let me not yeah u go do that Edited February 22, 2005 by armjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Folks, wouldn’t it be more dignified (and humanistic) to consider Jesus as an exceptional human being, one of the greatest philosophers in the history and the founder of a most influential and humanistic religion, instead of making him a supernatural character from folklore? What matters is the truth, not what may appear more dignified to subjective human beings. It is not that being divine is less dignified, but for some reason it seems so to you... The issue at hand is that you are considering being divine an impossibility. I don't even know how you define divinity itself, but one would be hard pressed to ask why you consider divinity impossible. Is it because you know all things that are possible and divinity not being one of them makes it impossible? Why is Jesus considered divine? First of all, because he declared to be so, and based on his utterly unselfish and honest life one can simply trust in all of his words if not anything else. Secondly, it is obvious from his short life, acts and deeds and teachings, and also miracles. Let's not be such fools to believe that a multitude of people who witnessed the miracles are fools, and we that were not present are smarter to know better. Don't you think that people 2000 years ago could also doubt? It does not really take intelligence to doubt, as anyone can doubt in a second. In fact, many people who heard of Jesus's miracles that did not see themselves doubted, and never saw a miracle. Nobody is inventing stuff here. The Gospels are not invention, they are recordings of what happened. Should we believe in anything that has been written? Not really, there are also myths that were written, but the myths were written as myths, not to cheat people. It is not so hard to tell by the way a scripture is written to tell if it is meant to be a record or a myth. The nature of Gospels is so that they are not written as myths, but testimonies of what happenend. True there are contradictions and inaccuracies too for obvious reasons, but they hold largely true. Moreover, this story has distinct connotations with the Greek myth of Perseus. Acrisius, King of Argos, had a daughter named Danae. The oracle of Delphi told Acrisius that Danae's son would one day kill him. To prevent this from happening, Acrisius locked Danae in a bronze tower so that she would never meet any men and have children. Danae was very beautiful, so Zeus got interested. He transformed himself into a shower of golden rain and sneaked into the tower were and "poured" his love on Danae. Soon Danae gave birth to a boy, Perseus… style_images/master/snapback.png So, again we can speculate a lot of things, but nothing more than speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 (edited) Let's analyze Sip's thinking here a little bit, to reveal how qualified he is to express authoritative opinions on religious stuff And I perfectly understand Armjan's post, in that he doesn't see any chance that you are getting the point. I hate when people try to associate all this hocus pocus divine God bull crap to someone as great as Jesus. Your statement is contradictory here. So if I believe in your words you accept Jesus as someone great, yet you use words such as "bull crap", "hocus pocus" which no doubt have derogatory meanings. So, even if you really accept Jesus as a great human being, it is bizzarre that you find the need to use disrespectful words related to him. I think you need to have some introspection on this matter to figure out what you really feel. Jesus didn't need no God to be the greatest human to have ever lived and anyone who claims otherwise ... well, I'll kick you in the nu*z You are talking plain ignorance here. Obviously you don't have basic knowledge about Jesus. What does it mean "Jesus didn't need no God"? Doesn't it sound absurd? Have you read anything in the Gospel's about Jesus, what he said, what he taught, what he died for? Where did you learn this kind of stuff about Jesus, and what makes you think that you know about the subject enough to have an opinion that has a chance to be right? Oh maybe I should listen to Arpa more often and shush style_images/master/snapback.png Yeah, I am sure you could learn a very sound "shush"... Edited February 22, 2005 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Sasun, do I have to draw you a diagram? Just look at what Jesus has been able to accomplish and how many sheep are following him blindly! I really admire him and I think he was THE greatest human to have ever lived. He would have had to be to make such an impact on so many people. And crediting all his greatness to "God" just takes away from his real greatness! He had a vision, he had a philosophy, and he found a way to make it a lasting one. If you find "derogatory" things in what I say, so be it. But sometimes it hurts to realize how many people have been "fooled" and for how long! The beauty of it is, that his message was a good one to begin with so it's not a complete loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Absolutely and amen to that! I hate when people try to associate all this hocus pocus divine God bull crap to someone as great as Jesus. Jesus didn't need no God to be the greatest human to have ever lived and anyone who claims otherwise ... well, I'll kick you in the nu*z Oh maybe I should listen to Arpa more often and shush style_images/master/snapback.png I thought Bush was the greatest human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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