Anoushik Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Today I was watching "Investigation Into the Invisible World", a documentary from 2003 on the Sundance Channel. Icelanders were discussing their beliefs and encounters with fairies, trolls, elves, angels, ghosts, God, gods, aliens . It was very interesting (well, at least for me). The people in the documentary were so convinced that elves and angels existed and that they actually had contact with them that it occured to me that this documentary was staged. But then I think that there are large number of people who honestly believe that they saw and experienced supernatural occurings. I'm wondering why these things are not discussed more in our daily world (ex. news, shows) if so many people experience things that cannot be explained? Is it because the vast majority of us know very well that there are no such things in our world and have never really existed in our world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 People tend to call things they don't understand or can't explain as "supernatural". But if in fact something exists, then it must by definition be natural. Supernatural things just can't exist by the definition of the word itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 People tend to call things they don't understand or can't explain as "supernatural". But if in fact something exists, then it must by definition be natural. Supernatural things just can't exist by the definition of the word itself style_images/master/snapback.png http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=7306 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 People tend to call things they don't understand or can't explain as "supernatural". style_images/master/snapback.png ... and as evil, which should be feared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 People tend to call things they don't understand or can't explain as "supernatural". But if in fact something exists, then it must by definition be natural. Supernatural things just can't exist by the definition of the word itself style_images/master/snapback.png Yes! And No! Natural mean, something that could be explained by natural laws. Not everything does and is right now predictable. You could reply and say that it is because of our limited knowledge, and I will just shut up. Suppose that we are a computer generated reality, and the one behind his computer is bored and introduce few new rules and events, would you call that natural? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Um... OK, I wasn't clear. I meant why we don't see ghosts, angels, fairies, even God being discussed in our daily lives? Why should only a couple out of millions of people have this experience of seeing ghosts and communicating with angels? In one part of the program a hospital photographer who usually photographs women giving birth said that she's also witnessed death a lot because she's in the hospital so much. And she said that she's seen ghosts quite often wandering through the hospital, and her experience was not unique in the town where she lives. And she said that the movie "The Sixth Sense" was a great example of people in the States not talking about these experiences while people in Iceland are more used to talking about seeing ghosts and don't consider ghosts being anything unnatural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 I meant why we don't see ghosts, angels, fairies, even God being discussed in our daily lives? Why should only a couple out of millions of people have this experience of seeing ghosts and communicating with angels? style_images/master/snapback.png We can see too, if we really want to and are willing to train ourselves to perceive finer vibrations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 (edited) We can see too, if we really want to and are willing to train ourselves to perceive finer vibrations. style_images/master/snapback.png Then why don't we want to? Especially when we constantly search for excitement and adventure, why don't we want to get deeper into that invisible world? Edited January 11, 2005 by anoushik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Then why don't we want to? Especially when we constantly search for excitement and adventure, why don't we want to get deeper into that invisible world? style_images/master/snapback.png Because we don't seriously try. We think about it for a few minutes, hours, maybe even for a day and then forget about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Then why don't we want to? Especially when we constantly search for excitement and adventure, why don't we want to get deeper into that invisible world? style_images/master/snapback.png I agree with Sulamita. Anoushik, ask yourself - why don't you want to? Are you busy? Is it something unimportant? Uninterersting, boring, difficult, scary, etc...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 We can see too, if we really want to and are willing to train ourselves to perceive finer vibrations. style_images/master/snapback.png Maybe you should ask Sasun what he has been smoking. Is he sharing that pipe, loaded with LSD and peyote with that hashish head John, who wrote the book of Revelation, aka Hallucination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Maybe you should ask Sasun what he has been smoking. Is he sharing that pipe, loaded with LSD and peyote with that hashish head John, who wrote the book of Revelation, aka Hallucination. style_images/master/snapback.png You are too ignorant and too pretentious at the same time, the best thing for you is to shut up and mind your business where your "authoritative" opinion was not asked. I have told you on several occassions quite politely, but you don't understand it, neither you deserve... so, once again, shut up and mind your business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Then why don't we want to? Especially when we constantly search for excitement and adventure, why don't we want to get deeper into that invisible world? style_images/master/snapback.png Because the is no SCIENCE that can prove that they exist. Only fate and when you try to ask questions of people who see these ghosts and God and such they can NEVER prove you wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefertiti Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Then why don't we want to? Especially when we constantly search for excitement and adventure, why don't we want to get deeper into that invisible world? style_images/master/snapback.png Have you ask yourself, why do we want to? Human kind gets bored from reality itself and enters the invisible world. Why believe in supernatural? Why not honor, love, virtues, etc.. Have you noticed people are more proud (selfish) then honorable (selfless). The weaker the soul the deeper they dig into invisible world. Illusion, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 (edited) The weaker the soul the deeper they dig into invisible world. Illusion, that's all. style_images/master/snapback.png Nefertititi, it seems that you have not had any experiences having to do with the worlds beyond. But I am just curious, how do you know that it is an illusion? If you can't see something then it is illusion? What if you saw something, lets' say an angel or other things that you think do not exist. Would you still believe that it is an illusion? What if you could talk to the angel? BTW, you have a belief about the soul: what is a soul to you? Edited January 12, 2005 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Because the is no SCIENCE that can prove that they exist. Only fate and when you try to ask questions of people who see these ghosts and God and such they can NEVER prove you wrong. style_images/master/snapback.png Azat, you are right, the sciences that we commonly know cannot prove anything. That's because they are physical sciences. In theory already they would not be able to prove anything metaphysical, immaterial. On the other hand, there is a science called spiritual science, which does not deal with the physical world but nevertheless methodology quite similar to scientific methodology. For example, in physical sciences we tend to believe something to exist if we can see it repeatedly. The Sun exists because we have all seen it, and we can see it again and again. Nobody will fail to see it as long as they have eyes. In spiritual science too, there is an eye that can see things that ordinary eyes cannot see. Everyone has this eye, except it is closed and dormant, hence we don't see anything else than the physical. But once this eye is open, you will see the suns and moons of the worlds beyond, and you will never fail to see them as long as they exist. Others can also see the same things just like you do, which is further proof that they exist. It is no less reality than the reality commonlhy known. You can see it, I can see it, everyone can see it if we really open our eyes. Currently our state is the state of a blind man. Blind men don't see any sun or moon, hence they have to believe others, or have faith in their words. Something that they maynot always do. So are we, we may believe in angels, or we may not believe. That has nothing to do with reality. The only thing we can be sure about is knowing first hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefertiti Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Nefertititi, it seems that you have not had any experiences having to do with the worlds beyond. But I am just curious, how do you know that it is an illusion? If you can't see something then it is illusion? What if you saw something, lets' say an angel or other things that you think do not exist. Would you still believe that it is an illusion? What if you could talk to the angel? BTW, you have a belief about the soul: what is a soul to you? style_images/master/snapback.png My beliefs are more rational, realistic then imaginative. That's me. Those who see angels, they believe in them so strongly that they actually visualize them. It won't happen to me, Fortunately or Unfortunately Soul is your inner dept as long as you are alive.. It moves you, the source of emotional world in the body. I can go on and its just my belief. There are no right or wrong answers, everyone has his/her own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 That is exactly what I do not believe in Sasun. I don't believe in things that a person cannot show me. Spirituality is not a science, people call it a "science" to give it more weigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Those who see angels, they believe in them so strongly that they actually visualize them. style_images/master/snapback.png You see, that's the problem. You and many others think that some people can visualize an angel and think that they saw an angel. This is what you believe, but is it what actually happens? While it is a possibility, there have been many instances where the person neither thought about nor bothered to imagine an angel, but saw one anyway, in quite normal circmstances. And why do you assume that you can tell reality from imagination, but others somehow are not successful doing it and confuse imagination with reality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 (edited) That is exactly what I do not believe in Sasun. I don't believe in things that a person cannot show me. Spirituality is not a science, people call it a "science" to give it more weigh. style_images/master/snapback.png Azat, please close your eyes, I will show you an apple. Can you see it? No. You must open your eyes, then you can see. And by the way, spirituality is not what I am calling science, but there is a spiritual science also, which basically is practice certain practices. Edited January 12, 2005 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefertiti Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 That is exactly what I do not believe in Sasun. I don't believe in things that a person cannot show me. Spirituality is not a science, people call it a "science" to give it more weigh. style_images/master/snapback.png I'm on this with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefertiti Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 You see, that's the problem. You and many others think that some people can visualize an angel and think that they saw an angel. This is what you believe, but is it what actually happens? While it is a possibility, there have been many instances where the person neither thought about nor bothered to imagine an angel, but saw one anyway, in quite normal circmstances. And why do you assume that you can tell reality from imagination, but others somehow are not successful doing it and confuse imagination with reality? style_images/master/snapback.png its very obvious reality and imagination.. Sasun jan I can refer you to some people whose imagination will blow your mind, but they are heavily on drugs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 (edited) Sasun, I'll tell you what the problem is with your spirituality business. It is not testable. You say one will see if one opens his or her spiritual eye and start to see ... well, that is not how science works. Science can predict things and it is testable. The spiritual model does not predict anything and is not testable and therefore is useless. And that is what I believe Azat means by "show me". He doesn't mean show me as in explain something that has already occured, but "show me" as in predict the outcome of something non trivial using spirituality. I highly doubt you or anyone else can do with spirituality what one can do with science. Call it "physical" if you wish but I would say the opposite of physical in this sense is "imaginary". Edited January 12, 2005 by Seapahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Sasun would 100 people who have these "eyes" with which they can see this God be able to identify the exact same person as God. What I mean is that we all can identify an apple or Movses(if we all have met him few times) or a car or any object that exists. Will these 100 people be able the same God.(since there is one right?) I have a feeling that if there was a study the one God that these people identify will be vastly different from one another because to me it is a figure in their imagination and it has evolved in their head over time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 I'm on this with you! style_images/master/snapback.png just this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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