Turkey's Accession To Eu

[Maral]

Dear friends,

 

In a couple of days, the leaders of the EU will decide wether to accept Turkey as a member State.

 

Below you will find a link to an online petition about Turkey's accession to EU, take a few moments to fill it please (a.s.a.p.), and forward it. it highly important!!

 

(In French)

 

http://www.expression-publique.com/express...dresse=turquie2

Edited December 13, 2004 by Maral

[Nakharar]

Dear friends,

 

In a couple of days, the leaders of the EU will decide wether to accept Turkey as a member State.

 

Below you will find a link to an online petition about Turkey's accession to EU, take a few moments to fill it please (a.s.a.p.), and forward it. it highly important!!

 

(In French)

 

http://www.expression-publique.com/express...dresse=turquie2

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Most of us don't realize but we are actually doing our best to get the Turks into the EU.

[Maral]

how?

[Nakharar]

A negative reaction will lead to a positive one. It's what they call the law of dialectics.

[Maral]

that makes no sense..wonder if that's the way the world turns though..

[sev-mard]

that makes no sense..wonder if that's the way the world turns though..

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Unfortuately I think that it is sometimes. Seemingly the opposite of what you(other people) want happens. Yes el chem haskanoom, but it's kind of a sad feeling. I just take our election here stateside as an example of that. There is always a push against any position, hence the existence of the law as stated by Nakharar.

[Sasun]

I have conflicting views about Turkey's potential membership in the EU. Sometimes I think it is good for Armenia, and sometimes I think it is not good for Armenia. I don't think it is clear at this point what't best for us.

[Armen]

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-...6-390791,0.html

 

For French reading people ... Consider giving a short summary.

[alis]

Parev,

 

 

N'oubliez pas d'etre present le 17/12 a Bruxelles pour la manifestation pour dire "Non" a l'entrée de la Turquie dans Union ..

 

@+

[Arpa]

I have conflicting views about Turkey's potential membership in the EU. Sometimes I think it is good for Armenia, and sometimes I think it is not good for Armenia. I don't think it is clear at this point what't best for us.

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Sasun,

You may not know this but "your slip is showing".

You represent the typical Armenian who has no idea what follows.

CONFUSION!!!

Once the Genocide is recognized 99% of Armenians will go out of business. 99% who have based their "raison d'etre" on the "cause celebre" of Genocide.

We have never given it a thought to what will ensue once the Genocide is recognized. Based on some peoples' perception that our "identity is based on the Genocide". Oh! How I hate that! What kind of identity is that? Is that an identity of "yeghbayr dartsan Hayastan-Turkastan"? An identity of martyrdom? An identity of defeat and subjugation? An identity of a beggar?

 

Once that happens we might as well close down this forum as there will be nothing to talk about.

[Armen]

What kind of identity is that? Is that an identity of "yeghbayr dartsan Hayastan-Turkastan"? An identity of martyrdom? An identity of defeat and subjugation? An identity of a beggar?

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Is that an identity of a ***? OK, OK Arpa I will not say the magic word.

[Siamanto]

Associated Press Worldstream

December 12, 2004 Sunday 1:19 PM Eastern Time

 

French politicians oppose Turkey's EU membership

 

PARIS

 

 

France's centrist leader said in an interview published Sunday that

Turkey has shown repeatedly that it is not part of Europe, while a

right-wing politician urged voters to reject the European Union

constitution to keep Turkey out.

 

Turkey "does not belong to Europe, and shows that in multiple ways,"

said Francois Bayrou, head of the centrist Union for French

Democracy, in the Le Journal du Dimanche newspaper.

 

It "militarily occupies Cyprus, a European state, and refuses to

recognize it," Bayrou told the weekly paper. "It (opposes) any

recognition of the Armenian genocide, maintains practices that hurt

the status of women."

 

The remarks came days before European leaders are to decide whether

to open negotiations with Ankara.

 

Right-wing politician Philippe de Villiers told Radio J that a "no"

vote in France's planned referendum on the European Constitution

would be useful in helping to prevent Turkey's membership.

 

It would be a "vote of precaution for those who don't want Turkey" in

the EU. If the EU constitution is defeated, he said, "that will level

everything."

 

The French political class is deeply divided over the question of the

admission of poor, majority-Muslim Turkey to the EU, which currently

has 25 members.

 

EU leaders are to meet Thursday and Friday to decide on opening

membership talks with Ankara.

 

President Jacques Chirac supports Turkey's EU membership, while Prime

Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, a centrist, is skeptical and Chirac's

party, the Union for a Popular Movement, is opposed.

 

Chirac has warned against politicians' mixing the referendum and

Turkey's membership.

 

"These are two problems that have nothing to do with each other," he

said recently.

 

The referendum is to be held likely in the final six months of next

year.

 

Chirac has said that French citizens also will have the "final word"

on Turkey's entrance through a referendum when the time comes - and

if EU leaders agree to start membership talks.

 

 

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg99004.html

[Siamanto]

Christian Post, CA

Dec 11 2004

 

Netherlands Churches Urge Conditions on Turkey's EU Membership

 

The Council of Churches in the Netherlands said Turkey must recognize

religious minorities within its borders before entering the European

Union (EU)

 

 

The Council of Churches in the Netherlands said Turkey must recognize

religious minorities within its borders before entering the European

Union (EU), news agencies reported Friday. In an open letter to the

Netherlands Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende the council said the

fact that Turkey is a predominantly Muslim nation was no bar from

membership, but stressed the EU should insist it recognize Syrian,

Orthodox and other religious minorities.

 

 

"It is important that all religious minorities gain the right to

build and maintain buildings such as churches and monasteries, to set

up theological training, to speak and teach in their own language,

and to be free in carrying out diaconal and other church-related

activities," the council, which comprises Protestant, Roman Catholic

and Orthodox churches. Currently, Turkey still does not formally

recognize the Syrian Orthodox minority living within its borders.

 

The council of churches also said in their letter that it would be a

"confidence-building sign" by the Turkish authorities if it publicly

admitted the genocide of Armenians in 1915 by its predecessor, the

Ottoman Empire. According to sources, books about the massacre are

banned in Turkey.

 

Turkey, which has waited 40 years to become a part of Europe, has

made EU membership its top priority. As the European Union decides

whether to open membership talks with Ankara, Turkey's Prime Minister

Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a devout Muslim, is reportedly keen to project

a positive image of the country's treatment of minorities.

 

In a bid to showcase Turkey as a country that respects religion,

Erdogan inaugurated a church, a synagogue, and a mosque on Wednesday.

The inauguration was made possible only after Turkey changed laws

that restricted the opening of houses of worship other than mosques

to boost its chances of EU membership.

 

Most recently, the European Commission voiced support for Turkey's

bid to join the EU and expressed hope for a "positive outcome" at a

summit next week, but warned that recognition of Cyprus is crucial to

Ankara's hopes, AFP reported Friday.

 

Currently, Turkey recognizes only the Turkish Cypriot enclave in

north Cyprus, while the rest of the world views the Greek Cypriot

government in the south, which joined the EU in May, as the sole

legitimate representative of the whole island.

 

 

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg98948.html

[DominO123]

I don't understand what is the point of bringing the genocide everytime Turkey & EU is brought out.

 

I do believe that it is for the best interest of Armenia that Turkey get in the EU, and do believe that the Armenian Genocide should not play in the decision of whatever or not Turkey should be part of the EU. BUT!!

 

I am against Turkeys accession, that it recognise the genocide or not, will not change my position.

 

Turkey's militaristic system has no place in Europe, Turkey is even not in Europe geographicaly... neither Turkey's militaristic system could be changed(that's what Araturks modern Turkey is), and neither can we change where Turkey is geographicaly. There are many other reasons, but I think those two alone are enought to support my position.

[Nakharar]

Sasun,

You may not know this but "your slip is showing".

You represent the typical Armenian who has no idea what follows.

CONFUSION!!!

Once the Genocide is recognized 99% of Armenians will go out of business. 99% who have based their "raison d'etre" on the "cause celebre" of Genocide.

We have never given it a thought to what will ensue once the Genocide is recognized. Based on some peoples' perception that our "identity is based on the Genocide". Oh! How I hate that! What kind of identity is that? Is that an identity of "yeghbayr dartsan Hayastan-Turkastan"? An identity of martyrdom? An identity of defeat and subjugation? An identity of a beggar?

 

Once that happens we might as well close down this forum as there will be nothing to talk about.

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Hush Arpa! If the secret gets out the Turks will recognize the genocide in no time.

[Sasun]

Armenia Hails French Push For Turkish Recognition Of Genocide

 

www.armenialiberty.org

By Emil Danielyan

 

Armenia praised on Tuesday France for pledging to seek Turkish recognition of the 1915 genocide of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire during anticipated negotiations on Turkey’s membership of the European Union. Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian said he believes Ankara’s refusal to open the Turkish-Armenian border will also be on the agenda of the accession talks.

 

“In the course of the accession negotiations, France will ask for a recognition of the tragedy at the outset of the 20th century,” French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier said late Monday. Barnier referred to the 1915-1923 mass killings and deportations of some 1.5 million Ottoman Armenians which France’s parliament recognized as genocide in 2001.

 

“Armenia certainly welcomes that statement,” Oskanian told reporters in Yerevan. “It once again shows that the issue of the Armenian Genocide has gone beyond the Armenian framework. It is now a truly global issue.”

 

Barnier made the comments in Brussels after attending a meeting of the foreign ministers of EU member states. They discussed preparations for this week’s EU summit which is expected to give the green light for the start of formal negotiations on Turkish entry into the bloc.

 

Turkey was quick to reject the French calls which could complicate its decades-long efforts to join the EU. “Our position is well-known. We do not recognize any so-called genocide and we will never recognize it," a Foreign Ministry spokesman in Ankara told Reuters.

 

Barnier clarified on Tuesday that France does not regard Turkish recognition of the genocide as a precondition for EU membership. "But when the time comes, Turkey should face up to the requirement of remembrance over this tragedy at the beginning of the century, which affected hundreds of thousands of Armenians," he told French television, according to the Associated Press. "The European project itself is founded on the idea of reconciliation.

 

"We have 10 years to ask it; the Turks have 10 years to think about their response," he added.

 

France is home to Europe’s largest and most influential ethnic Armenian community which has been lobbying Paris hard to link Turkey’s EU entry to genocide recognition. Western commentators suggest that Barnier’s statements are also meant to reassure the broader French public which is overwhelmingly opposed to Turkish membership.

 

Armenia’s government has also voiced strong objections, citing Ankara’s continuing denial of the genocide and, more importantly, its refusal to open the border and establish diplomatic relations with Yerevan without any preconditions. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan listed Armenian efforts at genocide recognition among those preconditions in a newspaper interview last October.

 

Oskanian raised the issue in meetings last week with senior EU officials, among them External Relations Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner and Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn. “Our efforts in recent months seem to be yielding positive results,” he said.

 

“Both the opening of the Turkish-Armenian border and the Armenian Genocide have really become issues of interest to the European Union … I have reason to be confident that those issues will be on the agenda of the accession talks.”

[Sasun]

Sasun,

You may not know this but "your slip is showing".

You represent the typical Armenian who has no idea what follows.

CONFUSION!!!

Once the Genocide is recognized 99% of Armenians will go out of business. 99% who have based their "raison d'etre" on the "cause celebre" of Genocide.

We have never given it a thought to what will ensue once the Genocide is recognized. Based on some peoples' perception that our "identity is based on the Genocide". Oh! How I hate that! What kind of identity is that? Is that an identity of "yeghbayr dartsan Hayastan-Turkastan"? An identity of martyrdom? An identity of defeat and subjugation? An identity of a beggar?

 

Once that happens we might as well close down this forum as there will be nothing to talk about.

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Out of what business Arpa? So 99% of Armenians identify themselves with the Genocide? That's an exaggeration. At any rate, whatever that persentage is, I don't care if anyone will "go out of business". We mabye better off. I think it is in our best interest that Turkey recognizes the genocide. And at this point, it is uncleaer to me if joing to the EU will help it happen, or on the contrary will make them have less incentives to recongize.

Edited December 14, 2004 by Sasun

[Armen]

I don't understand what is the point of bringing the genocide everytime Turkey & EU is brought out.

 

I do believe that it is for the best interest of Armenia that Turkey get in the EU, and do believe that the Armenian Genocide should not play in the decision of whatever or not Turkey should be part of the EU. BUT!!

 

I am against Turkeys accession, that it recognise the genocide or not, will not change my position.

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Domino, Turkey is gonna be a member this or that way. Isen't it counterproductive to become a tool in someone' s hands? Wouldn't it be silly of us to make Turkey feel like Armenians want bad to them. I don't think we want them feel bad. We want us to feel good.

[Armen]

Turkey EU bid threatened by genocide past

ISN Security Watch

 

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=10365

[Sasun]

Turkey EU bid threatened by genocide past

ISN Security Watch

 

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=10365

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One side note - this article says "Armenia has asked Turkey to apologize as a condition for establishing diplomatic relations."

That's just not true, is it?

[Armen]

One side note - this article says "Armenia has asked Turkey to apologize as a condition for establishing diplomatic relations."

That's just not true, is it?

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That's correct. It is not a precondition.

[Armen]

Deutsche Welle, Germany

Dec 14 2004

 

Turkey Has a "Duty to Remember"

 

 

In the latest twist to the debate surrounding Turkey's eventual

membership of the EU, France has demanded that Ankara recognize the

mass killing of Armenians during World War I. Speaking after a

meeting in Brussels on Monday, French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier

said, "France will pose this question. I think Turkey as a large

country has a duty to remember." Barnier made it clear that France's

demand is not a condition for opening membership negotiations with

Turkey but said it would be raised once talks are opened. This is a

highly contentious issue for Turkey, which has refused to recognize

the killing of up to 1.5 million Armenians as genocide. Ankara

insists that between 250,000 and 500,000 Armenians as well as

thousands of Turks were killed when they clashed during World War I.

Armenians say that their people died or were deported under Turkish

Ottoman rule. France officially recognized the Armenian genocide in

2001 and is now coming under pressure from Armenians living in France

to raise the issue with Turkey. Barnier's words come just three days

ahead of a crucial summit of EU leaders -- where Ankara is expected

to be given the go ahead to open negotiations. It is emphasized that

negotiations are open, but do not guarantee EU membership at the end.

[Armen]

BBC News

Last Updated: Monday, 13 December, 2004, 22:20 GMT

 

Turkey 'must admit Armenia dead'

 

France has said Turkey must improve its human rights record

France has said it will ask Turkey to acknowledge the mass killing of

Armenians from 1915 as a "tragedy" when it begins EU accession talks.

French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier said Turkey had "a duty to remember".

 

Armenians say 1.5 million of their people died or were deported from their

homelands under Turkish Ottoman rule.

 

Mr Barnier did not say it was genocide, although the French parliament has

done so in the past. Turkey says the victims died during civil unrest.

 

Mr Barnier said France did not consider Turkish acknowledgement a condition

of EU entry, but insisted his country would raise the issue once talks

opened.

 

France will pose this question - I think that a big country like Turkey

has a duty to remember

 

Michel Barnier

French Foreign Minister

 

 

Where Turkey's bid stands

Speaking to reporters after a meeting of EU foreign ministers to discuss

plans to invite Turkey for accession talks, Mr Barnier said Turkey "must

carry out this task as a memorial".

 

In addition, France believes that accession talks should not begin before

the second half of 2005, Mr Barnier said. Turkey has pushed for immediate

negotiations.

 

"I believe that when the time comes, Turkey should come to terms with its

past, be reconciled with its own history and recognise this tragedy," Mr

Barnier said.

 

'So-called genocide'

 

His comments drew no immediate official response from Turkey, which has

consistently denied orchestrating genocide.

 

A foreign ministry spokesman in the Turkish capital, Ankara, told Reuters

that Turkey has never and will never recognise "any so-called genocide".

 

 

Armenia alleges that the Young Turks, in 1915 the dominant party in the

Ottoman Empire, systematically arranged the deportation and killing of 1.5

million Armenians.

 

Turkish relations with independent Armenia, which borders Turkey to the

north, have long been coloured by the issue.

 

About 300,000 Armenians live in France, more than in any other European

country, and community leaders have pledged to pressure French President

Jacques Chirac on the genocide issue during Turkish accession negotiations.

 

France passed a law officially recognising the Armenian genocide in 2001,

cooling relations with Turkey and scuppering a major arms deal.

 

Another 14 nations, including Switzerland, Russia and Argentina, also

classify the killings as genocide.

[Armen]

This already looks like a coordinated EU "attack" on Turkey.

[Armen]

NTV MSNBC, Turkey

Dec 14 2004

 

French FM back off from Armenian statement

 

Turkey has always rejected claims that the Ottomans carried out a

policy of genocide against it Armenian citizens.

 

December 14 - France's Foreign Minister has backed away from his

statement that Turkey had to acknowledge the so called Armenian

genocide as one of the conditions for it to join the European Union.

 

Foreign Minister Michel Barnier said Tuesday that it was not

France's position that Ankara had to acknowledge the allegations of

committing genocide against the Ottoman empire's Armenian community

during the years of World War One. His comments were in contrast to a

statement made Monday that Turkey had to accept responsibility for

the events of ninety years ago in order to start accession

negotiations with the EU.

`France does not pose it as a condition, notably not for

opening negotiations,' Barnier said on French television. `Legally,

that would not be possible.'

Turkey has always strenuously denied that any deliberate

massacre of Armenians occurred, though does acknowledge that many

thousands of Armenian and Turkish Ottoman citizens died during the

turmoil of the war in the east of Turkey.