Jovhannes Chimishk Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 First of all I would like to introduce myself. I have been reading you posts until I finaly decided to write and become parto of this family. I am an Armenian from Venezuela, and my family is from Gurin or Gurun, in central Anatolia. I would like to know about the cultural diversity in Western Armenian before the genocide, I am not talking about beirucis or halapcis, I am talking about the cultural diferences between an armenian from Sivas, from Van, from Giligia. I have heard that existed languague diferences, I would like to know why is that. Thanks for you attention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Jovhannes Welcome to HyeForum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Pari yegar! I have (distant) relatives in Venezuela. You pose a great question - but I'm afraid I have very limited information about this. I'm really interested in Western Armenian issues as well. About the language differences. For the most part, Western Armenians spoke 'Western Armenian' (Arevmdahayeren). However, there were distinct dialects as you went from region to region (kavaraparpar, or just parpar nowadays). This is a natural phenomenon, and is not exclusive to Armenians. However, some Armenians, even before the Genocide, spoke languages other than Armenian. Some spoke Turkish (not so much because of assimilation, but because of government persecutions -- they were threatened to have their tongues chopped if they spoke more than 5 words of Armenian back-to-back). I don't know which regions this was more common in...I think maybe south Anatolia? Others spoke Arabic. My father's mother's family (my paternal grandmother) was born in Aleppo (Haleb) -- and her family had been living there for many generations before the Genocide. They spoke only Arabic. My mother's side of the family is from Dikranagerd. My grandfather (who passed away many years ago) spoke only in his Dikranagerd dialect, so I hear my mom talk with her sisters in the dialect sometimes. But for the most part, the 'Western Armenian' dialect of today is based on the dialect of the Armenians of Istanbul/Bolis/Constantinople -- because that is where the Western Armenian intellectuals were located. I hope I helped a little... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovhannes Chimishk Posted December 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Thank you Gor-Gor for the information...... I didn´t know that "official" western armenian was based on the dialect of Bolis...... I know that dialect are normal in almost every language but in the western armenian case is a little more complicated. My grandmother, for example, she used to say that when she came to Aleppo, she coudn't understand other armenians. The way I see it, there were several "languages", all of them belonging to the same root, the "old armenian", but somewhat diferent. It´s a shame that all that diversity has been lost because of the genocide. Btw: there were also cultural diferences within the regions, that is what I wanted to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakharar Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 You should check out this link http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~lingpub/online..._phonology.html Bert Vaux was a linguist at Harvard University who specializes in Armenian dialects. He is currently Professor of Linguistics at the University of Wisconsin. http://www.uwm.edu/~vaux/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 The Anjar/Musaler dialect is a good example of what the Armenian parpars look like. It might be true that Armenian speakers were persecuted, but maybe those Armenians who only spoke Turkish, and who escaped the genocide didn't want to admit that they were assimilated... I once saw a book (like a dictionnary) giving you the definitions of particular parpar words used in different regions of Armenia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianjan Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Jovhannes welcome to our family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Dave: I don't doubt that. I know some Bolsahay families that speak Turkish in the home. The reason the persecutions always stick out in my head is because my (late) Armenian teacher used to call us "yeni cheri"s when we were being loud, obnoxious, etc. Of course I only recently realized what that meant while doing some web surfing. Yeni Cheris was the name given to the Turks who would literally chop off Armenian speakers' tongues. And I also remember this was the case in the southern/southwest regions. So while the parents could speak Armenian, they spoke only Turkish to their kids, to save everyone from persecution. I actually have a (fiction) book written in standard WA, but the characters speak in the Dikranagerdtsi dialect. There's a glossary at the end that translates the parpar words (and lots of Turkish words, too) into standard WA. It's great. It is the only book I've ever read (English or Armenian) where I could truly relate, because the characters use "gor" and "haydeh" and "ham" and "na" and "eferim" and "khalo" and "illa" and "mey-muh" and every other foreign adaption to our slang. lol Plus, the dialect sounds like my mom and grandma!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Yes. The turks used to chop of the tongues of the Armenian speakers, especially in the Cilician region (which was barbarous... but at least they let us keep our faith) The Apostolic Christian faith of the Turkish speaking Armenians was unfortunately the only thing differenciating them from the Muslim Turks. btw Janissary is the English version of Yeni Cheri. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovhannes Chimishk Posted December 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 I have heard of many armenians in Syria that couldnt speak a word of armenian..... They only sopke turkish..... Now it comes the cuestion... were they realy amrenians?..... As I know there were many other "minorities" in Anatolia at that time..... some of them were also ortodox christians..... So, being the armenians the largest of those minorities these people could have felt somehow related to them..... I have read of "galatians" living in the area around Angora (Ankara) even in the time of the genocide..... They spoke a language closely related to armenian (almost a dialect) and were ortodox christians..... Before the turks came to Anatolia this was one of the most ethnicaly diverse regions of the world...... what happend later to these people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 As far as I know, they became Greeks or ''Hellenes'' when the Romans/Byzantines conquered those areas and imposed their language, culture, and religion. The Greeks even tryed to do that to us, but in most part, they didn't succeed (maybe because they didn't hold Armenia as long as Pontus, Galatia or Cappadocia, for example) They also relocated (don't mistake this with the Turkish ''relocations''!) the Armenians around Sivas/Sebastia in Central Anatolia, or in Philippopolis/Plovdiv, Bulgaria, because the Greeks needed good cavalry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovhannes Chimishk Posted December 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 I know about the relocations made by the greeks, and it is true that many of those people were "hellenized" before the ottoman era....... But the truth is that the christian population of Anatolia consisted mainly of armenians and greek but there were also other lesser grups (although very small in numbers)...... the galatians was one of them.... by the way very "armenized". Btw: my granma told me something in the old Gurin language: inch davidis? (inchpes es?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hye88 Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 This is a little off topic, but I was curious how many of you were born in Armenia and if you weren't then where were you born? I myself was born in Yerevan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I was born in the greatest city in the world for any child to grow up. Yerevan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakharar Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I was born in the greatest city in the world for any child to grow up. Vienna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I was born in not the greatest city for a child to grow up: Gyumri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I was born in Erevan Erevan Qo TSav@ tAnem Sirem Qez ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I hate to hijack this thread...lol But I was born and raised in Los Angeles. "New York, Boston, California, inch aghvor, inch siroun, inch aghvor e na..." (It's the only song I could think of!! lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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