Gor-Gor Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 (edited) Hello everyone. I was initially replying to Nairi's Eastern Armenian thread, but I realized I have so many questions about EA grammar/vocab/slang, that I thought I'd make my own thread so you guys can help me out!!! And I figure I can add questions as they come up. Just some stuff that's been on my mind lately --- 1) Do EA's use the word "hech" (nothing, vochinch)? I've always thought this was among the many Turkish words used in daily Western Armenian speech...but I've heard it used in a (modern) Armenian pop song from Armenia, so it piqued my interest! - This leads to a sub-question. During the "nerkaght" years, lots of WA speakers moved to Soviet Armenia. I'm going to assume they spoke WA to their children who grew up in Soviet Armenia, and in doing so, some Turkish words made their way to Armenia. Could "hech" be one of them? 2) The biggie. For a a couple of years now, I have been trying to figure out the VERB equivalents in EA. My one link to the EA world is my (Hayastantsi) best friend who is absolutely useless in EA/WA comparisons as she has studied only WA. I've tried researching online, and I found a magnificent website in English that gave comparisons between the dialects in every possible tense -- but I was so confused because it was written for people who know a thing or two about linguistics. I need a dumbed-down version!!! Let's use the verb "khosil" [to talk] (hurray, I found a verb that's written the same in either transliteration scheme ) First, the present tenses...First I'll put the English form, then the WA form, and you guys will help me with the EA form. I talk = Gu khosim = EA?? I am talking = Gu khosim [gor] = EA?? Khosoom em?? Now, what would be the EA equivalents?? To make things more confusing, I know that "Gu Khosim" means something completely different in EA -- something like future tense (I will speak? I shall speak?)...Help! - One of WA's major setbacks is the lack of distinction between I run/I am running. In school, we were taught NEVER NEVER NEVER to use the "gor" ending, especially in writing. But alas, it's used almost universally in daily speech. Some teachers told us it's a Turkish adaptation to the language, adopted to help make that differentiation. But I still don't buy it -- surely there can't be such a big gap/mistake in WA? Does anyone know anything about this?? (going off on a tangent, I know...sorry...) Okay, now past tense. I talked = Khosetsa(y) = EA? I was going to talk = Bidi khosei = EA? I was talking = Gu khosei [gor] = EA? And future (abarni! one of my favorite words!) tense. I will talk = Bidi khosim I am going to talk = Bidi khosim [or] Khoseloo em * Again, I think both Bidi khosim and Khoseloo em have different tense meanings in EA... * I think the proper way is Khoseloo em, but we just use Bidi Khosim in speech, and add a qualifying phrase after like, "hedo" to make the distinction. And how about the command form? (don't know what the real name is - imperative?) (You) Talk! = Khosi'r (although I have read the correct way is Khose) = EA ? .........This is all I can think of for now. But don't worry, I think of new questions daily...lol Thanks a lot! Edited November 26, 2004 by Gor-Gor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianjan Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 (edited) I will try to help, but if I make any mistakes, please correct me. I can only comment on the vb. khosil. I think that in EU Armenian the right way to say I talk is = khosoom em. For past tense I am not sure, because I heard both of the versions used in EA dialect...khosetsa and khosetsy. For the command form, I think it's Khose. Again, I'm not an expert at this, I'm just trying to remember my family and friends speaking in Armenian. Edited January 6, 2005 by Seapahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Thank you for help!! Khosetsa and khosetsi?? Hmmm... And khose for the command form? I'd have thought it was khosa - or maybe that's the slang form?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianjan Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Thank you for help!! Khosetsa and khosetsi?? Hmmm... And khose for the command form? I'd have thought it was khosa - or maybe that's the slang form?? style_images/master/snapback.png You're welcome. I hope I'm right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunt Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 I talk = Gu khosim = Ga khosum I am talking = Gu khosim [gor] = yes khosumem I talked = Khosetsa(y) = yes khosatsim I was going to talk = Bidi khosei = Khosalooim I will talk = Bidi khosim = Bidi khosahm I am going to talk = Bidi khosim [or] Khoseloo em = khosalooem (You) Talk! = Khosi'r = Du khosa Western Armenian's main role is to corrupt, corrupt, corrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 (edited) 1) Do EA's use the word "hech" (nothing, vochinch)? I've always thought this was among the many Turkish words used in daily Western Armenian speech...but I've heard it used in a (modern) Armenian pop song from Armenia, so it piqued my interest! - This leads to a sub-question. During the "nerkaght" years, lots of WA speakers moved to Soviet Armenia. I'm going to assume they spoke WA to their children who grew up in Soviet Armenia, and in doing so, some Turkish words made their way to Armenia. Could "hech" be one of them? it's one of so many words that are used in conversation daily, but get crossed out with red pen in school essays. as for your sub-question, so many words made their way to EA before, during, and after nergaxt. i don't think you get separate when and by whom this or that word made its way to EA. 2) The biggie. For a a couple of years now, I have been trying to figure out the VERB equivalents in EA. My one link to the EA world is my (Hayastantsi) best friend who is absolutely useless in EA/WA comparisons as she has studied only WA. I've tried researching online, and I found a magnificent website in English that gave comparisons between the dialects in every possible tense -- but I was so confused because it was written for people who know a thing or two about linguistics. I need a dumbed-down version!!! before i go no, let me say that it depends who you ask it. the verb tens is one of those areas of EA that are twisted and bend to all directions throught different բարբառներ [barbarner] of EA. i'll give you the accepted գրական [grakan] form. I talk = Gu khosim = EA?? Խոսում եմ [khosum em] I am talking = Gu khosim [gor] = EA?? Khosoom em?? Խոսում եմ [khosum em] (see lesson 3, http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10...dpost&p=123663) I talked = Khosetsa(y) = EA? խոսացի [khosatsi] I was going to talk = Bidi khosei = EA? պիտի խոսեի (խոսայի) [piti khosei (khosayi)] խոսելու էի [khoselu ei] I was talking = Gu khosei [gor] = EA? խոսում էի [khosum ei] I will talk = Bidi khosim կխոսեմ (պետք է խոսեմ) [k'khosem (petq e khosem)] I am going to talk = Bidi khosim [or] Khoseloo em * խոսելու եմ [khoselu em] (You) Talk! = Khosi'r (although I have read the correct way is Khose) = EA ? style_images/master/snapback.png խոսի՛ր (խոսա՛ (informal)) [khosi'r (khosa')] Edited November 26, 2004 by Harut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Thanks for all your input! For some reason, I always thought EA had a special verb form to distinguish between "I talk" and "I am talking" -- but I guess not. We should all adopt WA's "gor." Makes speech much less confusing. I come to ye with another question. The famous case of the verb "go." Armenian seems to give us as much fun as the English go/went variations. I'll do the WA ones, and again, you guys can englighten me with EA. I go = Yes g'ertam You go = Toon g'ertas He/she goes = An g'erta(y) We go = Menk g'ertank You (plural) go = Took g'ertak They go = Anonk g'ertan I went = Yes katsi You went = Toon katsir He/She went = An knats We went = Menk katsink You (plural) went = Took katsik They went = Anonk katsink The reason I ask this is because I never really hear any EA speakers use the verb "yertal." It's used sometimes, but I get the feeling it is used for a slightly different context. When is "yertal" used in EA? Oh, and another question. WA has some "irregular" verbs, that instead of taking "gu" in front for their present tense, they take "goo." We were taught that this was a vestige of Krapar (grabar). I wanted to know if EA uses these as well, in any form. I cry = Yes goo lam I come = Yes goo kam I give = Yes goo dam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 i'll leave most of the questions for others to answer, but... էրթալ/երթալ in EA would be գնալ. though, էթալ is also used, but is considered a slang. with that said... I go = Yes g'ertam - Ես գնում եմ [yes gnum em] You go = Toon g'ertas - Դու գնում ես [du gnum es] He/she goes = An g'erta(y) - Նա գնում է [na gnum e] We go = Menk g'ertank - Մենք գնում ենք [menq gnum enq] You (plural) go = Took g'ertak - Դուք գնում եք [duq gnum eq] They go = Anonk g'ertan - Նրանք գնում են [nranq gnum en] I went = Yes katsi - Ես գնացի [yes gnaci] You went = Toon katsir - Դու գնացիր [du gnacir] He/She went = An knats - Նա գնաց [n gnac] We went = Menk katsink - Մենք գնացինք [menq gnacinq] You (plural) went = Took katsik - Դուք գնացիք [duq gnaciq] They went = Anonk katsink - Նրանք գնացին [nranq gnacin] again... this is the accepted standard Գրական [grakan] form... and as with everything else, it changes even from neighborhood to neighborhood in Yerevan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 I cry = Yes goo lam I come = Yes goo kam I give = Yes goo dam style_images/master/snapback.png These were the "exceptions" to the rule that I was speaking of. They all take an -is in the infinitive, but are still conjugated with "to be": lal > lal + is > lalis Yes lalis em gal > gal + is > galis Yes galis em tal > tal + is > talis Yes talis em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted December 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 You guys are my own little keraganootyoon book. Nairi: A big "oooohhhhh, I get it now" for you. Verchin asdijan shnorhagal em. lol (oh how wrong that is - i just love the "verchin asdijan" expression!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 (edited) Dear GorGor, to understand where your nickname comes from read the following, in particular where I discuss the origin of Gor/kor. Dec 21 2002. http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=7842&hl= Harut and Nairi have done an excellent job answering your questions. One thing though. gu-kam/ku-gam=I come is not formal literary Armenian. The correct form would g@-kam/k@-gam. The gu/ku form is a provincial slang used by some of our most loved and illustrious personalities. Come to mind the song by Sayat Nova Usti Kugas gharib blbul. Formally the Ku- form is used in words beginning with letter ou like ouzem/k-uzem, utem/k-utem etc. I.e. we don't say ku berem even if some may in the various dialects. The case of k(u)-uzem is in line with other cases where before a vreb begiining witha vowel the @ of k@ is dropped and replaced by an apostrophe, like in k'arnem, k'aghothem etc. Edited December 4, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 1) Do EA's use the word "hech" (nothing, vochinch)? I've always thought this was among the many Turkish words used in daily Western Armenian speech...but I've heard it used in a (modern) Armenian pop song from Armenia, so it piqued my interest! "hech" is not Turkish. In Persian: Hich , nothing puch, null, void puk, hollow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakachik77 Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 again... this is the accepted standard Գրական [grakan] form... and as with everything else, it changes even from neighborhood to neighborhood in Yerevan. style_images/master/snapback.png Harut, what neighborhood "poshold kashi" belongs too ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lana Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 (edited) I talked = Khosetsa(y) = EA? խոսացի [khosatsi] The right variant is khosEtsi, as the verb itself is khosEl, the one with a, as well as "khosAtsi" are very onformal and to me even rough. "Poshold kashi" a good one) Edited March 15, 2005 by Lana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.