Headache(s)

[Stormig]

So how come the plural of headache, glxacav, գլխացավ, is glxacaver, գլխացավեր, and not glxacavner, գլխացավներ? Is there a rule/irregularity I am not aware of?

[Harut]

(i'm term-chanalged in english, so bare with me).

 

in modern armenian, the plural of one-syllable words is created with adding an եր [er] ending to the noun. for example, տուն - տներ, բառ - բառեր. of course, as a rule, there are some exceptions, such as մուկ [muk], ձուկ [dzuk], մատ [mat] which get ներ [ner] ending, and others such as մարդ [mart] which becomes մարդիկ [martiq].

 

the plural of multi-syllable words is created with adding ներ [ner] ending.

 

when the word is a composit word (hope that's the right term), such as գլխացավ [glxatsav], composed of two roots, գլուխ [glux] and ցավ [tsav], the plural of the word is created by adding an ending that you would add to the last root if was on its own. in this example, the last root, ցավ [tsav] is a one-syllable word, which means if it was on its own, the plural would have been ցավեր [tsaver]. thus, the composit word which has ցավ [tsav] as a last root also gets եր [er] as a plural ending.

 

therefore, գլխացավ [glxatsav] - գլխացավեր [glxatsaver].

[Stormig]

So it is that simple.

Great. Thanks. Cheers.

[sev-mard]

Good info Harut, shat khelasti mard yerevum es.

[vava]

Thanks Harut - a nice and elegant explanation for those of us who have never studied Armenian grammar.

 

Oh, and nice to see you back once in a while Sevik jan...

[Proud EXPAT]

........of course, as a rule, there are some exceptions, such as մուկ [muk], ձուկ [dzuk], մատ [mat] which get ներ [ner] ending, and others such as մարդ [mart] which becomes մարդիկ [martiq].

 

so մուկներ and not մուկեր? ձուկներ and not ձուկեր? մատներ and not մատեր?

[Harut]

so մուկներ and not մուկեր? ձուկներ and not ձուկեր? մատներ and not մատեր?

 

i've heard many wa speakers use մուկեր, ձուկեր, etc... i don't know what's the "proper" usage in wa, but in modern ea, the formal usage is մկներ, ձկներ, մատներ, դռներ, գառներ, etc... i believe this is left over from grapar, where these words were originally մուկն, ձուկն, դուռն, գառն, մատն, etc and received the regular եր by default... this is more abvious if you look at other words such as դռնապան or գառնարած... you can clearly see the ն... it's not դռապան or գառարած...

Edited December 30, 2006 by Harut

[Proud EXPAT]

Maybe this topic has been talked about before, but I still don't comprehend the correct plural forms of hand, parent, foot and so on:

 

ձեոք ձեոեր ձեռքեր

ծնողք ծնռղներ ծնողքներ

ոտք ռտեր ռտքեր

 

I'm assuming the first ones are the grabar ones.

[Harut]

Maybe this topic has been talked about before, but I still don't comprehend the correct plural forms of hand, parent, foot and so on:

 

ձեոք ձեոեր ձեռքեր

ծնողք ծնռղներ ծնողքներ

ոտք ռտեր ռտքեր

 

I'm assuming the first ones are the grabar ones.

 

i don't want to assert what's correct and incorrect, but basically, these are things that naturally come in pairs and therefore are referred to, just like in english, in plural (unless of course you're talking about a single thing)... աչք, հոնք, ձեռք, ոտք, կուրծք, ծնողք, etc (can't think of other words at this point), ք being the plurative suffix... since over the time եր [er] and ներ [ner] have become the dominant prurative suffixes (the only i would say), աչք (etc) has lost its meaning as 'eyes' and has become an 'eye'... therefore, the use of աչքեր has come forward... some of the mentioned words have transformed differently than others... for example, it's կրծքեր and not կուրծեր, but it's ծնողներ and not ծնողքներ... (i guess this one is because it's a lot more common to talk about a single parent than about a single breast... unless you're telling someone 'tsitsikd utem' )

 

all three forms that you mentioned are used today in different contexts, and i can't tell what's right or wrong, but the formal ea usage for the mentioned words is as follows:

 

sng - plr

աչք - աչքեր

հոնք - հոնքեր

ձեռք - ձեռքեր

ոտք - ոտքեր

կուրծք - կրծքեր

ծնող - ծնողներ

 

it's interesting to note that there are other things which do not come in pairs, but are still referred to in plural... and not only in armenian but also in english... for example, երկինք (although this word in modern wa and ea is also singular, just like the rest of the words above), the skies...

 

but, i'm sure there are many better posts about this in the forum that you can find by searching one of the words above...

 

just to make another point, in the examples that you gave, it would be ձեոք ձեոՆեր ձեռքեր, as we discussed before...

 

it's also interesting to note that ականջ, ear, is not in this list of words... though an older word for it, ունկ[ն] can fit somewhere there i guess...

 

another word that just came to mind is շրթունք...

 

it's also interesting to mention that today ք is used for plural a lot more often in wa than in ea... and that many ea speakers, who are not interested in languages in general, get very surprised about ք being a plural suffix, yet ք, as such, is very common throughout our language, starting from pronouns, ex. մենք, դուք, նրանք to words such as գիրք...

Edited December 30, 2006 by Harut

[Arpa]

Good observation Harut about the pairs.

You will also notice that compound words based on the above "apiars" always use the singular form like in "կտծոսկր/krtsoskr/breast bone", "ձեռնոց/dzernots/glove", "ոտնաման/otnaman/koshik/shoe" etc.

Let us add one more “pair” to the list.

“Erkunq/Երկունք”

The below quote is from the following thread;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=13100&hl=erkner

“Whereas in pregnancy both are “one” at birth they become two.

The translation I have translates "erkner" as

turbulent". I must differ linguistically if not in

spirit, as "erkner" is based on the word "erkunq",

birth, parturition, i.e. one becoming two,

erku/erkunq. I would have translated it as;

Heavens become two, earth becomes two, and so does

the sea of tsirani, whereby Vahagn is born of the

heavens, the earth and the sea.”

As to “erkinq/երկինք” , consider ; “Հայր մեր որ յերկինս ես”.(singular). It may have become “erkinq”, plural based on Hovannes Yrznkatsi’s intepretation; “Զի երկինքն երկու իրք** է, հուր եւ օդ, իսկ երկիրս երկու իրք է, հող եւ ջուր”.

** Note that he says “irq” not “ban” as the latter was never meant to mean “thing”.