What's a lipashay?

[gamavor]

Yea, Dissolution of Turkey is also possible. Soviet Union crashed, why should not the same happen to Turkey.

[edward demian]

MJ

My grand father was a Demiraiakoghlu; later changed the oghlu to ian.

My grandmother was a Giritlian.

Are we related?

[MJ]

Dear Edward,

 

There has never been such thing as Western Armenia. Additionally, Turkey has not taken away form us “Western Armenian lands.’ In my view, the biggest crime of the traditional Armenian organizations is the cheating, illusioning and misinforming or people. I have spoken about it at /cgi-bin/forum/ultim...c&f=18&t=000049 .

 

In the last 1000 years or so, there has been one real Armenia - that is this Republic and its two predecessors.

 

If it would not be for the constant immigration out of of Armenia, Diaspora would be totally gone in one century. After all, the existence of Diaspora means that there is something wrong with our homeland – if everything was fine, we should’ve not had Diaspora. Therefore, the Diaspora itself is not a value to be worry about, unless it is for Armenia, in my book of values.

 

Most of all I liked your UNSALA.

[MJ]

Even if we assume that it can happen, our odds of obtaining Armenian lands, rather than having them incorporated in a potential Kurdish state are 1 to 10,000.

It has to be also noticed that the entire western world was interested in USSR dissolution. None of them are interested in Turkey's dissolution.

Additionally, Turkey's dissolution would be disaster for Armenia.

[MJ]

Not on the basis of the last names.

[MJ]

Accurately speaking, legally and historically, the right of the Western Armenians are their rights on their family property. Which, logistically and realistically speaking would be unenforceable except in few cases.

[dragon]

KICH MU LOUSAPANUTIUN

********************

 

1- Arevmdahayerenu yev arevelahayerenu 2 jiughern en meg lezvi.- KRAPAR hayerenin.

 

2- Arevelahayerenin mech bahvadz e paghatsayni yerashark hnchiunu, arevndahayerenin mech` gorsvadz.- Aysinkun` Hayasdantsineroun mod 3 ''d'' (dun-ta-to), 3 ''b'' (be-pen-piur), 3 ''dz''(dza-tza-tso), 3 ''g'' {kim-gen-ke), 3 ''ch''(je-cha-che) tsayneru dagavin gabrin iprev inknurouyn miavorner, minch uspiurkahayerun barakayin (patsi iranahayeren) anonk veradzvadz en yergshark paghatsaynneru.

 

Ays badjarov al uspiurkahay ashagerdner medz tujvarutiun gu gren hayeren jisht krelou mech, minchter hayasdantsineru chen shpotir nouynkan, kani vor inchbes gu hnchen-gu lsen, aytbes al gu kren.

 

Hunchuinaganin mech Arevelahayerenu JISHT e, kani vor yete hunchuinu chullar, Mesrob mashdots hamabadaskhan dar mu kdnelou bardavorvadz bidi chullar. Isg oughghakrutian mech arevmdahayerenu jisht e, kani vor dagavin gu bahbane kraparian himku yev keraganagan ganonneru` unthanrutiuan mrch.

 

- Zouyk kraganutiunneren Arevmdahayerenn e vor hasadz e piureghayin partsunki, kan arevelahayerenu, vor dagavin kavarayin gu hodi. Terevus Deryan, Charents, Pagunts ou Sevag grnan purgvil miayn.

Khorhurtayin jamanagnerun mshagvogh kraganutiunu kiughatsiyagan - deghagan kuynin ou rusereni aztetsutian dag er, isg nergayinu ter haydni al che vor our gerta. Amen pan kharn e hima` vojayin te lezvagan zarkatsman imasdov. Yergu jiughern al yeghapokhutiun gabrin (evolution) aysor, manavant lrakragan asbarezin mech, vor amenen haghortagan lezoun e nerga jamanagneroun. Arevelahayerenu aztvadz ruserenen` arhesdakidagan yezrern ou kaghakagan, dndesagan, pujushgakidagan hasgatsutiunneru gam oughigh ruserenov gu kordzadze, gam al ador hayatsvadz darperagu (lavakuyn barakayin), minchter mius tevu` arenmdahayerenu gu time ankleren-franceren darperagin, gam al yurakanchiur mamoul-radio-tv nor parer gu shine ou zayn gu hramtsune hanroutian.

 

Orinag mu dam ou antsnim. CD paru aysor mer kravor ou panavor mamoulin mech degh kdadz e pazmagerb tsevov.- salig, khdasalig, usgavarag, yerkasgavarag, tsaynasgavarag yevaylun. Yev aysbes pazoum orinagner. Payts ov bidi verchnaganatsne ays darperagneru yev kidagan himounknerov vortekrel da imasdayin jushkrdutiun ounetsogh amenen modig paru, sa e hartsu yev anshushd mer lezvin aysorvan medzakuyn tujvaroutiunu.

Terevus badaskhan dak ou usek` Hayasdanu anshoushd, ir kidnagannerov ou agatemigosnerov. Deghin e, guntunim, Payts... ays poloren aratch nakh oughigh krelou (oughghakragan) hartsu ga, vor yergu teverun hamar al gu mna chloudzvadz.

Ays al ourish aritov.

 

- Arhesdakidagan jardararvesdin klkhabdouyd harachtimoutiunu medz yergirneroun mech, pnagan e vor shpoti madnen pokreru, yev Hayasdann ou hayoutiunu, inchbes dzanot e, giynan yergrort khunpagin mech. Ayt badjarov al aysor zouyk lezouneru yentaga gu mnan` amerigyan , rusagan gam deghagan lezvin bardatradz ''orenk''nerun, ayt al` khosagtsagan ou lrakrayin arvesdin mech, isg kraganutiunu, vor nergayis gabri inknourouyn holovouyt, arten pushradz e amen desag ganon ou gaghabar yev guntana amen desagi aztetsutiunnerou yev lezvamdadzoghutiants tentaga gushrouytov. Havanapar tebi nor piureghatsum.

 

- Ays poloren yedk ga hadganshagan ayn yerevouytu, vor Hayasdani angakhatsumen yedk yergu jiugheru aveli moden shupvelov irarou, usgsadz en pokharoutiunner unel irarme ou aztel meguzmegou. Sa arten mer aroryan e, hayoputian nerga gyanku yev lezun abrogh iraganutiun ullalov, amenen aveli groghn e ays aztetzutiuan. pan mu, vor voghchuneli yerevouyt e, vorovhedev lezouneru mertsetsumu nouynkan gu nbasde meg azk, meg hayrenik kaghaparin.

[MJ]

1. Deryan, Charents, Pagunts ou Sevag, + Isahakian, Kaputikian, Sahian, … - pretty much any 20th century writer/poet, except Tumanian, whose language indeed has been provincial, but deliberately so – he could write perfect “kaghakaiin” language – see the first “Qaryak,” for example at http://armenians.com/poems/Qaryakner/ .

2. I think it is a baseless statement.

3. This is true, though there have been attempts to substitute the borrowed professional terms by Armenian made-up equivalents, but these attempts have failed due to the phoniness of the suggested Armenian terms.

4. The Institute of Language of the Academy of Sciences of Armenia. The argument of reverting the artificial “Soviet Armenian ughghagrutiun” has not found a lot of support so far. There are serious logistic problems associated with it. However, I think it is a possibility after the stabilization of Republic’s life.

[dragon]

1. Deryan, Charents, Pagunts ou Sevag, + Isahakian, Kaputikian, Sahian, … - pretty much any 20th century writer/poet, except Tumanian, whose language indeed has been provincial, but deliberately so – he could write perfect “kaghakaiin” language – see the first “Qaryak,” for example at http://armenians.com/poems/Qaryakner/ .

 

- As cher usel uzadzus. Yes kroghi yev lav kroghi harts che vor gu partsratsnem, ayl LEZVAGAN MSHAGUYT-i gagnargem. Ches hasgutsadz usd arjanvouyn.

 

2. I think it is a baseless statement.

 

- If you think so, have nothing to add. Freedom of speach.

 

3. This is true, though there have been attempts to substitute the borrowed professional terms by Armenian made-up equivalents, but these attempts have failed due to the phoniness of the suggested Armenian terms.

 

- Still there is some people working on it.

 

4. The Institute of Language of the Academy of Sciences of Armenia. The argument of reverting the artificial “Soviet Armenian ughghagrutiun” has not found a lot of support so far. There are serious logistic problems associated with it. However, I think it is a possibility after the stabilization of Republic’s life.

 

- One thing is very obvious in Armenian life, that is we know how to unite against outside enemy, but never do the same if it comes for fixing some mistakes in Armenian era. Artsakh and khorhurtayin oughghakrutiun were the result of the Stalinism. We had the courage to fight against azeris and save the land for the price of 4000 and more young armenians' blood, but still rejecting the correction of the language, which is not bloody, never harmless. Why? because we never learned to listen each other and respect what is right, useful and valuable. In this matter there is also the factor of eastern armenians' superiority complex, but have no idea to elaborate.

 

If someone wants to know about armenians socio-psygologycal character, the above example will be enough I guess.

 

3529

[MJ]

I think pointing to the 3529 testifies only at the inferiority complex of some.

[dragon]

3529 came out when I tried to bold your message. I failed once again.

 

If this is a complex, then you are right to call me like that

 

Have a superior day my friend

[MJ]

Then what example were you referring to?

 

As far as the merits of the issue were concerned, I have not spoken about the quality of writers above, but the language. It would not occur to me to put Kaputikian on the same scale as a writer as Charents or Isahakian, and I don’t see which 20th century writers’ language was on a lower level than that of Sevag’s, except Toumanian, as I have separated above.

 

Everyone knows that a mistake, or better to say idiotism, has been made in 20s changing the Armenian “ughghagrutiun.” Perhaps the purpose of it indeed was to further separate the Eastern Armenians from the Western. But I think some day it would be reversed. It requires massive effort, However. New textbooks have to be written, printed, teachers have to be trained, etc. How about those adults who have been trained otherwise... It requires a lot of money, which I am not sure under the current circumstances is available. Additionally, those who have changed the “ughghagrutiun” in 20’s are still alive, and on the top of the leadership of the corresponding academic establishment in Armenia.

 

Now, if all of the above is indicative of superiority complex, than I guess I don’t understand some basic things in life.

 

Having enough experience with both the population of Armenia and the Diaspora, btw very diverse Diaspora, I have witnessed that the alleged superiority complex is part of namely Diasporan upbringing – “the real Armenians are those who come from Diaspora (especially the ranks of ARF), the real Armenian language is the Western Armenian, etc.” Less educated the person more such insinuations he/she advances.

 

Thank you for your wishes.

 

[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

[edward demian]

A common Kurdish and Western Armenian state is a distinct possibility. Politically, the Kurdish leadership has accommodated with the idea. There was a great assembly of Kurdishleaders and the very subject of the return of the Armenians was extensively broached. Some made comments such as "how can we live together ? Aftewr all we killed them, didn't we?" The answer was: "We lived together with them for centuries, and if they come back with their schools and churches, there is plenty of room".

there were no Armenians present, a few turks, mostly Kurds. I think the Kurds have realized the turkish strategy of divide and conquer. They have been protecting small pockets of Armenians and Assyrians among them and truly are reaching out to us.

We remain aloof. The only ones to act upon the opportunity were the Communists. However, Armenian Communists outside of the Soviet Union, were never significant.

I see nothing wrong with a Armenian /Kurdish confederation such as the Swiss model.

In fact, I don't know why we don't revive the old Idea of the Trans Caucation Republic of old. The possibilities are interesting. for that, the Azeri's would have to give up the Pan Turdanian dreamms. With their resources and ours we would not need the superpowers.

[gamavor]

Dear Edward,

 

This is another utopia. Never in the human history, Christians and Muslims lived together in peace for a very long time. Never.

If ever any Armenian (Diaspora Armenian) decides to go back, he/she would do that only under Armenian flag. Doing business with turks or kurds is something very different from living together with them.

[dragon]

YOU:- Then what example were you referring to?

 

 

ME:- What I reffered to was about ''creating'' art and culture within the language. Kaputikian, Sahian, Tavtyan and the others were at the level (though Kaputikian for me is much better hrabaragakir than a poet)but they didn't create language (kegharvesd).

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

YOU:- As far as the merits of the issue were concerned, I have not spoken about the quality of writers above, but the language. It would not occur to me to put Kaputikian on the same scale as a writer as Charents or Isahakian, and I don’t see which 20th century writers’ language was on a lower level than that of Sevag’s, except Toumanian, as I have separated above.

 

ME:- Read the previous ME.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

YOU:- Everyone knows that a mistake, or better to say idiotism, has been made in 20s changing the Armenian “ughghagrutiun.” Perhaps the purpose of it indeed was to further separate the Eastern Armenians from the Western. But I think some day it would be reversed. It requires massive effort, However. New textbooks have to be written, printed, teachers have to be trained, etc. How about those adults who have been trained otherwise... It requires a lot of money, which I am not sure under the current circumstances is available. Additionally, those who have changed the “ughghagrutiun” in 20’s are still alive, and on the top of the leadership of the corresponding academic establishment in Armenia.

 

ME:- Nothing is hard as to win a battle and establish a nation like Karabagh. But as it is well known, it is more difficult to control your own son than control a nation.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

YOU:- Now, if all of the above is indicative of superiority complex, than I guess I don’t understand some basic things in life.

 

Having enough experience with both the population of Armenia and the Diaspora, btw very diverse Diaspora, I have witnessed that the alleged superiority complex is part of namely Diasporan upbringing – “the real Armenians are those who come from Diaspora (especially the ranks of ARF), the real Armenian language is the Western Armenian, etc.” Less educated the person more such insinuations he/she advances.

 

ME:- Diaspora is not only Tashnagtsutiun, nor Hunchags or Ramgavars. Diaspora is a world of human beings, where you can meet all sort of human. There is truth in what you've said, I agree. The same is in Armenia. People who know less bark more. But my point was ONLY about oughghakrutiun, so I stand on my word (yergu vodov).

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

YOU:- Thank you for your wishes.

 

ME:- You welcome, but next time more mature please