Sip

I thought you said you believed in reincarnation and karma? So what's this going to Hell business now?

For the record, I NEVER pray. I also never expect anything from God. However, I have been known to mention his name and his family with a few choice words and cuss him out when in severe pain. But don't even get me started on the subject or prayer ... how it brings man to the level of God (or God to the level of man) and how many incist on making deals with God (dear God, if you do this and that, I will do this and this) ... and the church is usually the worst when it comes to this ... heck just go through the words of the standard Armenian prayer and you'll realize how it actually sounds like we are commanding God to do a bunch of things for us. Also, I have faith in many things but not in God. For example, when I press "submit reply", I have it on good faith that the server will post this message in the thread. God has nothing to do with my faith in this case. So please don't generalize your notions of faith in that it somehow has to do with God, thank you

Not really. We have some very strong evidence that air exists for example. So air is not imaginary even though you can't touch or see it.

Oh yah, there was some REAL intelligence that went on in the human design ... either that or God had some big balls

Will it have a buffet? I could immediately tell that was not from recent times because it mentioned smoking. You can't smoke in California anymore.

Don't feel sorry for me! Either way, you're damned. Can you imagine how boring heaven will be? I've said this before that even an orgasm will start to feel like the worst torture after like 24 to 30 days straight. Now just imagine ANYTHING for eternity ... sheesh. At least I'll be with a lot more interesting souls in Hell. And Quebecker, I don't know about multi verse. That's my answer.

No I mean being able to tell the difference between imagination and reality.

Sasun, more than 90% of the people in the US still believe God is somehow influencing our world. More than 40% actually think God created man in his own image in the last 10,000 years. You still think I'm not saying anything special? In fact, I am saying something very special. I keep it real! It is human nature to get caught up in our imaginary worlds. Make up fancy and often very simplistic explanations for things we don't understand. I am outside of that simplistic box. I acknowledge things we don't understand as that: things we DO NOT understand. I do not try to come up with all sorts of non-sensical (yes, pun intended) ways to arrive at facts.

My guess is it would be a he. I only know of one Adis I think and I think he sang that "Garoon Garoon" song that goes like: Garoon Garoon Garoon eh, Sirun Sirun Sirun eh, Ed ko sev sev acherov Yaaaaaaaar jan du indz danjum es. repeat over and over and over and over and over ...

I just hope one day you "spritual/religious" people will open your eyes and master what I have already mastered. Don't knock what I have come to realize until you have experienced and mastered it yourself

Oh I am! According to sSebB, 83% of the people are still stuck in that box. Basically I think the discussion between you and I boils down to the fact that you claim your beliefs are aquired through information that somehow get to your brain through means not connected to your physical senses ... well, dear friend, to me, that is immagination. A lot of great ideas have originated by sheer immagination so I do not take the power of the mind to come up with great ideas lightly. But at the same time, I do not think basing our phillosophies on immagination and things not tied to our physical reality is a good idea. In other words, I also disagree with sSebB that there are other things in our universe that are not physical. Those things are NOT real. They are figments of our immagination. I guess the differece is, I am much more practical in what I consider real.

Like what?

I think that right there is the fundamental flaw in your logic which throws me in a loop. Not remembering the earlier stages of our lives as an illustration of not remembering past lives is a HUGE (and dangerous) leap. For one thing, I can provide you and myself a mountain of evidence that will convince beyond a reasonable doubt that I was in fact a young child before I got to be an older person (child). However, you have continually insisted that there is evidence of the others without providing any. You have even said several times that I don't have the ability to "see" those things because I haven't developed my spiritual vision. But no mater how similarly you would like to paint these pictures, they are very very different. There is VERY strong and tangible evidence that a child grows to be an adult even though that adult doesn't remember the early childhood. Where is the evidence of reincarnation? PS: I already know precisely how you will reply. Basically you'll tell me to go grow up and then discover these evidences on my own.

If the multiverse is one of those things that I just have to believe for it to be true, then I reject it. Basically, I reject anything that is self-defining (i.e. believe in God and it will exist).

By rejection I mean myself for example: I think Jesus was a great person with great ideas waaaay ahead of his time. However, I completely reject the notion of God and anything supernatural about Jesus. I completely reject the idea of his resurection. I completely reject the idea of things after death (Heaven, Hell, being reborn, etc). As you know, I also completely reject the idea of ghosts and spirits and such I don't think humans are too far ahead of many other mammals on earth. Many spiritualists tend to be very human centric in their views but science has shown us that many things we tend to consider as super-special human abilities are in fact demonstrated in other animals ... so we really aint' that great (definitely NOT on the same level as God or God's image that many would like to believe). But I don't think any of this makes me an evil person.

Sasun, I hope you don't take it personally since it's in my nature to try to get to the bottom of anything I don't understand well. But there is a big difference from a few years ago. I am a lot less open minded to ALL ideas. I have come to learn a lot of ideas are completely unfounded and don't have any solid foundations. For example, it is completely obvious to me that it makes absolutely no sense to assume that just because someone rejects the Bible and Jesus, that that person is evil. Not saying that you have said that, but there are others that have come and gone that have tried to make such claims.

No no no ... that is not the "deathless soul" Sasun is talking about. He is saying souls get reincarnated back to life as various humans and even end up paying for sins in previous lives. Do you believe in that, is the question... Also, since you seem to know the Bible fairly well (I'm sure better than me), can you confirm whether this notion of reincarnation of regular humans is supported by It?

Talking of premonitions and such ... Just 2 days ago I was thinking how my 22" monitor had lasted me a long time and I have never had a problem with it (Mitsubishi). And of course, today it died. ... I was just working on it and the picture went fuzzy.

Do you believe in reincarnation and this "deathless soul" business too? If so, then do you consider yourself a true follower of Christ?

Well, then before agreeing with Sasun so strongly, maybe you should understand exactly what he is saying. Sounds like the two of you are saying different things yet you end up agreeing with him when actually you don't. Also, it is irrelevant what "many Christians" say. You either believe in the Bible as the truth or you don't. This pick and choose the different parts of the Bible that sound good and then interpret the rest as you want is NOT consistent with the Bible being the word of God. So either it IS the word of God or it isn't. If it IS the word of God, fine. But don't twist things around in the Bible and try to weasel out of inconsistencies and problems with the text by resorting to other explanations (like a kid being born sick for not having had adequate 'next life' insurance with State Farm in a previous life or what not). If it IS NOT the word of God, then stop preaching every single verse of that damned text as if it were holy doctrine and claiming it to be the one and only Truth with the capital T.

I am familiar with the terms. The actual pronounciation is more like "bot parast". They brought down big statues of the Shah after the revolution under this notion if I'm not mistaken. And didn't the Taliban blow up those amazing historic statues (of buddah?) in Afghanistan since they deemed them to be "bots"? At the same time, the majority of the muslim population sticks up their ass opposite to the direction of their most prestigious bot (mecca) at least a couple of times a day.

Sausn, I know you tried to explain before (it was a VERY weak explanation by the way) but again, how can you claim the Bible at the center of which is the concept of heaven and hell which are ETERNAL and you will never get out of either, as the Truth, when you keep talking about Karma which is a mechanism by which you CAN influence your later reincarnations? The two are fundamentally different and no matter how much you try to interject some vague quote from Jesus, this fact will not change By the way, the quote from Jesus you tried to bring up is probably saying more about how there is a God in each and every one of us. Also, Christ (and God) being reincarnated in various shapes and forms is no basis for argument for Karma and endless life (or "deathless soul" as you call it). In the Bible, death is a VERY central theme and eternal damnation/salvation is the end. So again, how can you talk about both as Truths?

On the right top of right monitor is the Asus SmartDoctor for my Radeon 9600XT video card with the fan speed, voltage, and temperature etc. Below that is Nvidia's system utility with the motherboard voltages and temperatures, to the left of those is teh default Nvidia mixer for the nForce audio chipset. Below those on the right I think was my TV window.

Sasun or sSebB ... would either of you care to explain how the Hell you can believe in the Bible as THE Truth and also believe in Karma and past lives and having to pay for them in later ones?

I don't know guys ... anger is a HUGE turn off for me.