DeLaLa

hello abass , yes , i agree with you at some points . look people , my oppinion is that first of all its important that the EU recognized genocide and makes turkey recognize genocide or else th EU door will be closed to them . also in my oppinion turkey wil never recognize it , not for the EU , not for anyone . turkeys anti-genocide machinery is going deeper and deeper year by year , and this already for the past 92 years . their propaganda is neverending . ultranationalism is constantly growing in turkey . genocide resolution in usa ... well , armenian genocide is in one way recognized , the only problem is the term "GENOCIDE" . the turks have a big huge problem with this word . the usa uses armenians only as a playball whenever they want to threaten turkey , like for example these days "if you do gas-business with iran we will name the massacres as GENOCIDE ; if you enter north-iraq we will call the armenian massacres as GENOCIDE " and so forth ... where is the moral of the usa ? do we have to wait each time usa gets angry to turkey to hope we will get something good out of it ? today ,monday , if you people follow the genocide news , is another imoral day like that in america . ok , lets get back to armenians living in turkey ... i will ask you all a question now , and i want you people to answer mature and honest . if all armenians leave turkey for good what is going to happen with all these : what will happen with all these churches and our armenian graveyards (where me personally i have my family ancestors burried since 4 generations) 110 armenian churches and what will happen with all these armenian orphanages and schools ? 58 armenian schools what will happen with all the children in our orphanages ? who will then in future have the direct dialogue with the turkish government , if the diaspora so far rejects any dialogue ? another thing i would like you people also to consider and to realize is that not every armenian in turkey is rich and has the possibilities to move out of the country . 3000 young armenians have already left the past weeks , but dont think it is easy to split up families and friends and just leave a country where you have a job and an armenian social life .

see arpa , if you would know something about armenian history you wouldnt ask this question gere now and today . you are amusing me really ...

not only in this forum ... i have what you would call a love/hate relationship with armenians . but why do you get so offended ? i am armenian and i think i do have the right to critisize my own people in some points ? am i wrong ?

ok i read , but i think you didnt understand the meaning , or understood it wrong . as i told you before , mutafyan is a prominent armenian who has the responsibility of keeping armenians safe in turkey . if usa recognizes genocide officially then abassjan , you can maybe imagine that the armenians living in turkey will go through hell in that case . in the article above , mutafyan doesnt state anywhere that he denies armenian genocide . he is basically worried of the situation of armenians living in turkey in case of a usa recognition .

Abass , can you please post media articles where mutafyan stated such things as you say above ? so we can discuss this matter in a more realistic way ?

abass , none of these parties regognize genocide so its actually choosing the best party among the shitty ones . about mutafyan ... its unrealistic what argument you gave . he is an armenian prominent in turkey who is in official media life . in his position he has to in very first place make sure that the armnians today living in turkey are safe ... no matter with right or wrong arguments . humanism before armenian idealism ... hasgetsar ?

Avo , ok , lets say you have a market in LA and you order armenian cognac from yerevan ... you pay for lets say 1000 botlles but you only receive 672 bottles ... lets then say you open these cognac bottles to try the "good" cognac but you unfortunaly find out that the filling is not cognac BUT some weird water-piss mixture ... what would you do in such case? another example for you Avo... the finance minister of armenia is looking for a businessmen in the diaspora who would supply the whole armenian airline staff of armenia with pilot and stewardess outfits . so the finance minister finds a diasporant businessman and the pact is made ... the clothes all arrive from the production , but this businessman never sees one single cent ever through his life ? Avo , what would you do in that case?

301 !!!

Arpa , you didnt only post this article , you also automatically believed this media-source because you maybe didnt know better . but i do understand your behaviour . if i wasnt an armenian in germany and if i was an armenian living somewhere is america and i would read this article , i would probably also believe what is written there . Arpa , why do you believe that if one is armenian he/she shouldnt have turkish friends ? not every turk is an ultranationalist kemalist esh and a genocide-pinokkio . yes , a lot of them are , but theres also other turks who dont go with the flow. about the taxes Arpa , i do not agree when diaspora or hayastan armenians chritisize bolsohays for working and paying taxes in turkey (to the enemy so to say) . dont forget that all those galactic huge money donations for hayastan come from bolsohays , WHO earned all this money and wealth in no other place than in turkey . yes , they do pay high taxes , but i think it is worth if they are helping armenia very generously in paralell . "deceive the word that Armenians were removed from the war zone, out of “harm’s way” but they died of disease blah blah blah…" Arpa , thats just the classical turkish propaganda machinery . you stated here what turks say to you , but what do you Arpa answer them back? tell us please...

Avonjan, yes you are in theory absolutely right , and i can fully understand your oppinion . what i basically wanted to point out is that there are also lots of armenian businessmen all over the world who have had very bad experience with working together with armenia and that you must count with the fact that lots of them just got fed up with having to deal with those headaches . so if the foodproducts come on time and money transfers are correct from turkish businessmen in comparison to a corrupt armenian businessman , then it should be logical that armenians prefer dealing with the more shnorkov . am i wrong? besides that i do believe that at first place it is more important to the armenian-supermarket owner to earn a lot of money , then thinking about boykotting things . look , avo , for example for comparison ...if there was war and everyone would be short of food , and the only food available in that time would be meat ... do you think that vegetarians in that case would still refuse to eat meat because of idealistic reasons and die of hunger ? i dont think so .

Edwardjaaaaan ... iyaaa ... ok let me tell you my speculation of this sentence . how about "the same product is available from Armenia but to make business with armenia is a pain in the vorig , they bully you wherever they can and take the money but dont send your products in a proper way" so , edward wouldnt it be easier in this case to do say "customers are mostly Polsahays and would not buy Armenian goods" ??? lol

another brainsfart ? gamavor ? ottomans ----> former turkey !!! "say and claim that Armenian Diaspora has roots in Turkey is a big turkish lie." gamavor ? where do your greatgrandparents and grandparents come from originally ? where were they born? "Another big turkish lie is the number 70 000 Armenians working and living (enjoying) Turkey" that is not a lie but the truth ! and thats only the official number ... probably there are more than that in reality . if you think it is a lie , then i give you the advice to fly to istanbul and trabzone and to see yourself . the streets are full of armenia-armenian hookers at night even also in the armenian living areas by now and the bolsohay armenian households are also full with armenia-armenian maids working as nannys or houskeepers . almost all of these armenians live and work illigally in turkey . "Yaaa, those are BolsaHyes, rahter the remnants of Bolsahyes" in istanbul there are at present 85.000 amenians living who are turkish citizens and 40.000 armenia-armenians . in all of turkey if you also count the forced-assimilated armenians including hamshetsis there are in general about 3 million armenians in turkey at present . i hope it is logic to you that an forced-assimilated armenian in turkey is officially counted as a moslem turk and not a turkish armenian . religion is stated in the turkish ID's and it used to be written also in the passports some 30 years ago. "This is what has left out of 2 million Armenians." oh my god gamavor ... you dont know anything about armenian genocide history do you ? i hope you dot say these things in public too , because i would be ashame of being armenian for úneducated armenians as you are . lol , so for you armenians at genocide almost all 2 million got killed in the ottoman empire but the only 70.000 who survived genocide live in istanbul at present ? ay ay ay . gamavor , you should not hate armenians in turkey but be thankful them ! the largest part from the donations and help is coming from no other than bolsohays at present . bolsohays (including rakel and hrant dink)put thousands and thousands of armenian assimilated children from all over anatolia into armenian boarding schools in istanbul to get back their identity in the last 40 years WHILE other diaspora armenians just thought an assimilated armenian in turkey is a somewhat "lost armenian " or turkified lost armenian . there are also numerous turks these days who do say nowadays "my grandmother was an armenian " . back 30 years a turk was scared to say such statement . i would recommend you gamavor to read Fethiye Cetin's book "My Grandmother" . you can order the book in english, armenian, turkish and french . Fethiye Cetin is at present also the lawyer of the Dink-family in the murder-process . http://www.bolsohays.com/images/market/anneannemarm.jpg @nairi yes , there are also a lot of examples like you wrote in germany . i must tell you though that these armenians come from anatolia . a lot of anatolia-armenians who came in the last 20 years to germany are together a lot with armenians from armenia . their children have learned to speak armenian through this way (by constantly playing and growing up with hayastanzi children), which is very good . sometimes i have to smile when i see such kid from anatolia originally who one would expect to speak west-armenian , but they learned perfect east armenian in germany . Arpa , there are some good reasons for not changing their names back . one of the good reasons is the military service . and dont think it is as easy as you assume to change surnames back , other than you suppose turkish embassies make it very easy for you . if you change your name back to armenian in turkey then you can count with pure discrimination . i for example have an armenian surname , used to be a turkish citizen by birth , and in turkey in official papers they purly discriminated me in changing my sex from female to male and also changin my armenian first-name into a similar sounding turkish male name . what follows is the yearly letters i receive from the turkish embassy here , that i have to do my military service in turkey . every year i get this letter. every year i call the embassy and say "you have a mistake in your papers , i am a female and my name is .... and not .... " . they reply always that they will change that in their papers , but they didnt until today . and let me tell you the latest funniest story about this... my mother had to go to the turkish embassy for some papers last year . the first thing they said to her was "your son hasnt done his military service in turkey yet , he has to come here and still do it " ... he continues : "why doesnt he do his military service?" and my mom started laughing and answered back "I dont know why he doesnt want to go to the army service , why dont you ask him personally?" lol

iminhokis , axchik , vaz antsir lol , aveli lav imin dunnes eggur miyasin hamov hamov dolma guddenk .

Iyaaaaaaaaaa !!! grrrr ... was this it on oppinions ? am i a helpless case ?

hello hello hello ... i have so far only read the wildest speculations about freemasonery in this thread but almost nothing which bases on the truth . for example : it is NOT the oldest fraternity in the world ! many people aren't quite certain just who Masons are , BECAUSE many people like to read speculation crap books about freemasonery instead of seriously informing themselves ! "There are things they want to do in the world." lol , you can just use one word for what you meant here : HUMANISM ! i dont understand you posters here ... its very simple , anyone who wants to know what is masonery can go to a lodge nearby whereever you live and ask for information and you WILL get information . shat shat simple ! but please dont make all these speculative statements in here ... for example one poster wrote that there are women in mason-loges? that is not true . there is only one kind of real freemasonry in this world , the old scottish ritual loges ... which mainly are located in europe . women can not get freemasons because of traditional reasons . there are a lot of very old traditions and rituals of freemasonery which are practiced until today .

because anoushik ... my relatives are the most apush materialistic money-loving armenians on this ashxar ! he was "shaaat shaaat harust" ...

lol ... hello everyone in here ... i really have to laugh when i read all yor posts here .... do you people know that the airplanes Yerevan / Istanbul (which fly a couple of times a day back and forth) are totally packed all year through ? most of the armenians buy big bags full of clothes and other things in the kapali tsharshe (bazaar) to sell it in hayastan . to earn money . and you people complain about a little bit of dolma-leaves and pakhlava from turkey . it is grotesque what you are all writing here lol ...

Movses, Harut, and Yervant ... and DeLaLa !!! hi hi hi .... vay yes ko kuluxet udem hahaha

@Arpa thank you shat shat arpajan , for these breaking news ! white ! not yellow ! arpa ... it looks to me like the yellow smilies in hyeforum have manipulated you . not all 4.5 million turks in germany clean toilets and jews do not and have not conrolled the banks of germany . those are pure speculations of yours . every armenian diasporants roots are from turkey originally , but maybe you are a special exception and your greatgrandparents are exotic diasporants originally from planet moon . dont break your brain with terms like above ... we are all armenian and some of us have a turkish citizenship , end of the story . "rather than associate with other Armenian from other Diasporan countries, mainly those from Hayastan.." aha , arpajan i just learned another new fascinating breaking news from you today ... interesting ... since when is a armenian with a armenian citizenship a diasporant ??? armenia-armenians came to germany only because of bad economical reasons in armenia . you should become historian and promovate in armenian history . they do not return on their own will. armenia-armenians have refugee status in germany and most of them are sent back after a few years by the german government . i suppose you also read more serious newspapers too once in a while and not only crappy articles as the one you posted n this thread . so , i next suppose , that hopefully you know who is the number one on top of the killing-list of ultranationalist turks : PATRIARCH MESROB MUTAFYAN ! its just like the days where Hrant Dink was still alive and a loooot of armenians around the world chritisized him of being a "TURKEY-FRIEND" ... until he got shot with 3 bullets ... after his death the armenians who barked like dogs got to know who hrant dink really was and what changes he made . maybe , arpa, you are waiting for our patriarch to get shot too , to realize what it is like to be armenian in turkey . there are rarely armenians from lebanon and iran in germany . at present the most are armenia-armenians , second most are armenians from iraq , and third most are from turkey . "linguistic affinity" ayo sure lol ... shat nmanen haha , thats probably why every yerevantsi after saying hello and how are you and blabla always grin and say "ha , ha ayo ayo " to the barskahays and then they turn to me and say "LaLajan ban chi hasgatsa" all armenians(not only armenians from turkey) on this world want a genocide recognition from turkey ! @Gamavor please explain what exactly you mean by your comment above . thank you . if turkey is so bad Gamavorig , why then 70.000 armenian citizens work and live there at present ? we diaspora are all originally from turkey , x-turkish citizens ! end @Both of you you know in german there is a very nice expression for your oppinions you wrote down and posted " Gehirnfurz " ! translated into english is : "Brainfart" (;

anoushik , ayo you are very right but i was also a gentleman to have dated him (; i dont know why i did , but i did ... look ... i also have story from canada for you . this armenian family calls my aunt because they were interested in me for their son ... uremn , after 3 phonecalls with my aunt and his mother back and forth ... his mother asks my aunt if i am fat , because , she says "my son likes thin axchiks" ! so my aunt replies "no LaLa is tumbullik , she is not thin thin" ... so his mom tell my aunt "oh ok , then i have to ask him if he wants to date her or not again " looool ... so his mom calls again and tells my aunt "no , he told me he doesnt want to date LaLa after i told him she is chubby " so anushikjan , i did tell my aunt she can tell his mom he can go to hell and that she can tell this woman i will not go to a date with this dmbo-son of hers ! so , 6 weeks go by and on a sunday i go to this armenian fundraising party , something like 100 armenians there , and this dmbo and his parents are also there (they had never seen me until that day in person) ... vuyyyyyyy ... vrass paggan like glue . his mother begged my aunt for the following 6 weeks for me to go on a dinner with him , her maymun-son was crazy for me . but i never did BUT i had a great laugh and it was a revenge sweeter than paghlava ! grinnnn (: yervantjan , tsavigget danem , i never met any armenian weird guys like in europe ever . there are differences like night and day ... not only armenian guys also armenian axchiks . and if you yervant , want to really make me believe that you didnt have at least 3 different dates with any armenian supermaterialistic women there , then you are a big pinokkio ! (; do you know what the very first question of my female cousins and friends was after such armenian date ? "what car does he drive?" so... ?!? hahaha ... sipjan , how can an armenian man be succesful is dating with a swiss-panir on his head ? hm? ts ts ts ... how many ankams i told you to change to a basturma-hat ? ba ! ches lssum ints ...

ok ... let me start by the story of my very last date i had with an armenian in the U S and A ! ok , armenian , 39 years old wants a date with DeLaLa ... i must add it was one of these dates which my relatives arranged ... you know these dates where they say "LaLajan ... shat lav hay dxa me gah ... blablabla " ... ok. so i propose this guy to first chat via internet , to get to know him at least a little bit before the horror starts . we chat a bit , and very soon after comes the famous armenian-guy-question "ARE YOU THIN OR ARE YOU FAT?" (complex number one ---> armenian men have a neurotic paranoia about showing themselves in public with a fat armenian axchik) i answer him : i am fat ! his next question was OF COURSE ... "CAN YOU SEND ME A PHOTO?" (in other words: how fat are you ?) lol ... i send him a photo of myself and what follows is ... he wants to see more photos ... i end up sending 23 photos of myself ! anyway... the day "X" comes and he picks me up to go to dinner ect... the first moment he ever sees me in person it seemed as if he swallowed his tongue ... his first words : " you are not fat " we go to a shat shat nice restaurant and with every new dish which comes onto the dinnertable he confesses me one after one ... he starts telling me he is suffering from icterus since 3 years after he had just finished the story of his broken knee ... by the time the main dish comes he starts xatchvegah telling me in details how awful the med. colonoscopy was which he had made only 3 days ago !!!!!!! to be honest , i was expecting him to (after all he told me about himself ) to still continue and tell me "oh and i am impotent" ... got to go now , but next story is to follow lol ...

sip sip sip .... where shoull i start and where shoull i end ? so you people really want to know the odysee of all the strange dates i had with armenian men in usa/canada ?

i see tons of newspaper articles posted in this thread but almost no personal oppinions or discussions ... sad sad ... i mean ...sorry , but anyone can google these articles ... can we start discussing ? is that possible ? @iminhokis , vuyyyy , nor dessa vor tunal hosses ... lol ... (; ... nor egga , peits anank gereva vor anmenen shat mek shapat hossdex gmnam ... nayink intsi yerp turs ge neden (; peits hokche , es hedo xelok xelok mer forume yet gukam yev tserin tchixere g'kashem haha ... lianayin yev kezi xosk dvatsem vor pasta masta bidi eppem ... ok, hokis , ertam sharnagem dolmaneres erik martotz edeven neddelu ... ays WODKA'n ga ya ... imin sirdes gamats gamats dolma'yi bes ge pategor hahahaha ... vuy vuy vuy ... multo pericoloso !

anahid ? are you talking about the 1915 armenian genocide ?

ok abass80, let me ask you the question then what official behaviour exactly you expect , what would be the ideal behaviour of mutafyan for you ? another question is also , how much do you people really know about the present most popular turkish parties in turkey ? ... a lot of people ge-hachen in this forum with no intelligent arguments ...