DeLaLa

i never said all 80000 are working in prostitution ! "Just imagine what would happen if the borders become wide open, giving free and complete access to Turkey." that is up to the armenia armenians what they do out of it . they can use it negatively and positively . your comment sounds to me as if armenia is a cage full of wild animals whose cage-door should better be shut . what makes you think that ?

did you listen to the words of Rakel Dinks speech ever ? Her love letter ? what does "repsect" mean ? thats exactly what i tried to explain , but you and some others in this thread did not get it into your heads . some posters claimed that they only want open borders under the ONLY condition that turkey recognizes armnian genocide . you talk as if ARMENIA was the first who closed the border of turkey because supposedly armenians want closed border because of protest o the genocide-denial of turkey . NO! it IS the other way around ! TURKEY CLOSED THEIR BORDER TO ARMENIA ! so its absolutely ilogical your arguments . yes its getting there . and every year more and more hayastanzis move to turkey , the number will keep rising in future. Aliev ? lol , you are probably getting mixed up with names here . it was ERDOGAN , not aliev who stated that . how can aliev kick out armenians from turkey? lol . besides that by you saying " promised to deport all the armenian citizens from turkey " you just admitted you believe that armenian citizens do live in turkey . or who should to your oppinion get "kicked out"? besides that armenian citizens live and work illegally in turkey , so why shouldnt erdogan kick them back to armenia ? by armenian press writings . by international press writings . why should armenians travel 30 hours to reach trabzon instead of 5-10 ? why should armenians each time pay baxshish at the giorgian border ? why shouldnt armenia for example stop exporting armenian cognac to khars ? tz tz tz ... whats on a mans mind... believe it or not there are also armenians who dont go as sex tourists to sochi but spend a vacation with their family in ANTALYA . the planes yerevan/antalya is always packed with armenian tourists . there are many ways armenians come to turkey . flights from yerevan to istanbul and antalya is one. some fly yerevan to sofia and then continue with busses to istanbul . some drive through the giorgian border to turkey . sexual frustration Aratta ? NOPEEE .. wrong again Aratta . armenian citizens are NOT DIASPORA ! armenian citizens left mostly their country because of bad economical reasons and to make a better life outside of hayastan . nobody kicked these people out of their own country grounds . armenian citizens left their own country on their own wish . lol , you are really amusing me here ... Aratta ? how many millions of turks live in turkey ? and how many millions of armenians live in armenia ? and , how many of these "millions of turks " who leave turkey are kurdish ? do you like yourself Aratta? DUHHHHHHHHHHHH maybe no one in the mountain village you come from ? can it be? lol

Ahahaid once again like so many times you post without reading the posts of others first . Anoushik wrote that THE ONE ARMENIAN (hrant dink) .... reaaaadddddd please ! to anoushik : which armenians join the brussels meetings about genocide issues ? Anoushik ? what the hell are you talking about ? what do you know of armenians in istanbul to give such empty comment . sorry to break your idealism but there are many more hrant dinks who regularily have meetings with the turkish government to stabilize their rights as a minority and to talk about genocide recognition . DIALOGUE ! besides that , i really wonder or would like to know what was your oppinion towards Hrant Dink when he was still alive . many diaspora armenians critisized him as a friend-of-turks (just as they critisize patriarch mesrob mutafyan now) ... but when Hrant Dink got shot , these same diaspora people suddenly talked of him as an armenian hero ! Shahan i would guess that some are there by trafficking , and others are doing this job because of the fast money . the saddest thing in all this prostitution is that a lot of these women are married and have husband and family in armenia . some send their last earned cent to their husbands to armenia . the problematic goes on.... anyone who has lived in armenia is familiar with the male mentality . your wife leaves "alone" to somewhere else and people around you ask the husband "where did your wife disappear all alone" and the answer is usually "the boz left me" . BUT they do take the money their wife/boz sends them regulary and sit on their lazy vorrigs . if you ask these prostitutes why they then send their money to these vorriggs , they say that they only care that their children have food on the table . BUT ... the problem continues... these children dont grow up being thankful to their mothers , they grow up hating their mothers because of the brainwash their father make to them . OH and i have to point out that not all hayastanzis in turkey are working in prostitution , but a whole lot . others work as maids in armenian households , many of them work for armenian businessmen . i explained you the reasons in detail in another thread , but i am talking against the walls i suppose . YES istanbul armenians are living very good in turkey , do you want them in a bad situation anushik? istanbul armenians are taking care of all the armenian institutions and have a very strong community and that is good as it is . "a life of convenience" ... so what anoushik ? dont armenian citizens leave their OWN country en masse for this ONE reason "a life of convenience"???? are you a fan of paris hilton ? Kinali Ada in spring and summer . all armenians , 25 000 . the song is in turkish .

but there is armenians in turkey and you cant erase them , turkey wont get rid of armenians in turkey ! thats what turkey wants , but no chance . armenians in turkey would be cowards to leave them all the armenian institutions . armenians are present , and turkey will not just erase us . they WILL stay confronted with the armenian genocide until armenians do live even as a minority in the turkish state . we need to show presency . we are not a dead askh ! i dont understand the moral of armenian kaxakagans anyway ... i mean where is the moral? if you want to boykott opening the border of turkey because of the denial of the armenian genocide , then why why why tell me are approximately 80 000 armenian citizens working and living illegally in turkey ? why are the busses through giorgia to trabzone packed with armenians (30 hours drive) ? why are the beaches of antalya full of hayastanzi-tourists ? why are the planes full of armenians? why do armenians have to get that low to come to turkey to work as prostitutes to send their last cent to their family in armenia? where is the idealism and the moral in all this ? the gain of opening the border doesnt only mean we armenians would buy turkish products from turkey to sell in hayastan , it also means that we armenians can export goods to turkey , not only turkey .... a lot of companies dont work with armenia because of the difficulties to export/import because of the long complicated journey... besides that each time armenians have to travel for business over giorgia they have to pay the vratsis baxshish . so why shouldnt we diaspora stop being hypocrite and face the truth . armenia wants open borders , its the diaspora who doesnt agree. me personally , i prefer armenians to have a better economical situation in hayastan than seeing prostitutes in the streets of istanbul. do we armenians have to go that low? (also emancipation in armenia is still an enigma to me which maybe we can discuss in another thread) . i also see that most of people arguing with me here have never been to turkey . a lot of armenians have prejudices . a lot of armenians in the diaspora dont believe it when you say so and so many hayastanzis make a life in turkey . its like talking against the walls if you sometimes discuss things like prostitution homosexuality emancipation and other tabu subjects with diaspora armenians . it is there but noone want to believe it . ak jan , i posted this you tube .. do we armenians look like we live a terrible life in turkey ? no.

YES Anoushik , you are right , you can not compare armenians living in turkey with armenians living in other countries . the armenians in turkey are the best and most courageous armenians .

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hello edward , do you really believe that armenia is going to become the major regional power and dictate her terms ? i think you are dreaming a nationalist dream . it sounds to me that you dont like arguments and prefer to stick to your idealistic dream . what makes you believe that when so many armenians have left their country for mostly economical reasons ? growing yes Edward , but growing from what point of beginning situation ? i would say armenia is growing from the point of being the poorhouse of the kaukasus in the past , but armenia is still far from an economical stable country . i will quote you from the first article i posted : "By the Turkish blockade the Armenian economy must accept each year on average 500 million dollar of losses, maintains international experts." so if the economical loss is approximately that high , then i think armenian economics would rise and only profit , and in my oppinion only an armenian-hater wouldnt want armenians to profit . i dont understand why you wouldnt want armenians to live more comfortable . a whole lot of armenians is already doing business in armenia by flying back and forth istanbul/yerevan and making money to live , so why shouldnt we also want turkey to open its ground border ? experts say that one reason why turkey wouldnt want to open the border is simply because it would only be in the profit of armenia , so turkey is thinking why should we open it. Edward , can you please clearly explain me why you personally wouldnt want open borders ? thank you . Yes , i live in armenia and in the EU . when have you been last in armenia Edward ? have you ever lived in armenia ? from your post above i suppose it was long time ago . obviously you hate armenians from istanbul , but please keep your racist thoughts for yourself in future . Racism towards armenians is not healthy . you are just insulting yourself , your armenity . besides that your comment has absolutely nothing to do with the topic here . if you want to complain to me then theres the PM button in this forum for you to use .

hello kakachik , it is maybe an argument that turkey states , but isnt that also the reality ? in what way should turkey profit from opening the border to armenia ? the only reason which comes in my mind is to enter the EU (turkey has to open the border to enter the EU) . armenian economy would only profit . i think sarkissyan said a very realistic sentence here : “We cannot change our residence. In each case we will remain still long time neighbour. I think that an agreement would lie both in the interest of the Armenians and the Turks” about my ideal policy solution ... thats another topic than in this thread . i am talking about the article i posted . opening /not opening the border , economical profit/gain . genocide and arsax we can discuss in other threads .

Is Armenia able to have any discussion without fights too ? Not until Turkey admits having closed the border because of Azerbayjan i think . here another article from RIA Novosti : realistically : armenia needs an open border to turkey / turkey doesnt care or doesnt have a loss/profit by opening the border for armenia .

http://www.hashishpunk.com/ My HaShiSh by HaShiSh listen hoss : http://cdbaby.com/cd/hashishpunk

Ohlala , i really made you angry aratta hm? but sorry , i do not discuss with someone calling me a morron who has pms , i would waist my time and it is not my niveau . hello AK-47 , i personally believe that turkey has already entered north irak even if not very far from the turkish border . yes , you never know , i even back then when the americans entered irak with the help of the kurds did believe that the american promises to the iraki-kurds were just going to happen in theory but not praxis . i think so too sometimes , but i also ask myself if this strategic plan could also harm a small country like armenia . what kind of scenario could happen in that case , which would affect armenia ? i believe all this innerpolitical chaos in turkey in these days is a result of the turkish state not being able to control a "rapidly growing turkey" anymore . my prognose for the future is civil war in turkey . exactly . yes could be true , but its only a speculation .

'didn't you earlier in your previous post underestimated the importance of the word 'GENOCIDE'?' not underestimated , but some posters sounded as if armenica is denying armenian genocide , which is not the case . 'That's an interesting way of reinforcing the statement by made by delala. What are you trying to say?...armenians behave yourself or the bolsahays will suffer? i stated very clear to you : "but the diaspora has to in that case also count with harming the armenians still living in turkey . the diaspora should be aware of this fact . " " ...if we are to belive them, then the whole armenian population is in turkey ...'living/working'...in a time when millions of turkish citizens leave the country for europe and america. " why dont you believe that armenian citizens work/live in turkey ? maybe you dont want to believe ? "if we are to belive them, then the whole armenian population is in turkey " no. if we are to believe turkey then there was/is almost no armenians in turkey ever . and we were to belive turkey only 300.000 armenians "only" got deported in 1915 --->http://www.iatp.am/economics/migr/demog-ax.htm#13t "I must say that 'the armenians who live in turkey', and the armenians from other parts of the world are the same people.'" explain that fact to some other posters , but not to me . yes , same armenians , same people ... yes , same armenian churches , same armenian schools ...ect... (; "while the turks are known to the mexicans of europe" are you a racist ? "don't fool yourself with an idea that armenia-armenians live and work in turkey. " i am not fooling myself since ive seen with my own eyes , but dont worry , ive heard this denying arguments from lots of armenians in the diaspora . they just dont want to believe . even the bolsohays still cant believe how many hayastan-citizens came over to turkey . "you think after all that you are qualified to talk about millions of armenians who live in turkey?'" i am realistic and not blind of ultranationalism . "no one cares about what you think." why do you respond me then ? "you better learn to respect your hosts. you have shown disrespect to all the members who have spoken to you." so the definition of respect in this forum is to join the oppinion of others and not have your own according to you ? i dont think i have shown disrespect with writing my oppinions in this forum . to have a discussion is one thing , but if anybody here is directly feeling offended just because i dont say yes and amen to his/her posts then it is rather an ego problem from my oppinion and has to learn more tolerance . "do i need to unmask you" SPA ? "shame you have chosen to leave your claim and rest of the answer out of the contest..." yes i am very amot . "since you speak for everyone, who don't you say how they should live in their host countries" sorry but i didnt understand this question of yours gramatically . "i see you are already bitching without willing to face the concequeces. " what are according to your thoughts the "consequences"? dzezz bidi uddem himma ? lol "'what makes you think 'people' on this forum are not 'mature and honest'? are you questioning the moral of the forum members? '" no . i meant it just as i wrote it , not questioning anything . why do you get hurt by my comment ? "enough with bitching...why don't you instead back up your claims about the american moral and 3000 young armenians who supposedly left turkey with facts. i did ask you for facts, didn't i?" read AGOS (: "enough already! are you in a period or something!?!. " iyaaaaaa '"what the hell are you talking about? armenia does 'gas-business with iran' and not the single time the u.s. government has used that card against the armenians. why you thin that is, they have run out all the options with turkey and don't care about what armenia does with iran? " then why did digin pilav get angry only at turkey and not to armenia ? why do the ameriggatsis need such a huge embassy in armenia? why why why delalaaaaaaaa lalalalaaaaaaa (; " until then, i want you to explain to me about the moral of the International Association of Genocide Scholars who openly declared that what the turks did was an act of genocide. you aren't gonna claim the genocide scholars from all parts of the world act by the orders of the u.s, , right? '" ???? what did you mean ???? "I already told you, with me you stand no chance to play cat and mouse" why ? noren dzezz bidi uddem ? a mouse like me is only interested in sip's kllxark ! yepp !

@Arpa dont you have any intelligent argument other than putting disrespectful names to our patriarch out of desperation ? i wrote 58 armenian schools AND orphanages , and if you want the full list with names you may click to : www.bolsohays.com for details ! very simple. i am not talking about 1915 nor 1920 . i am talking about the present . yes you are right , "At least, that church was converted to a museum and not a stable, a nightclub or mosque" BUT therefore the armenian patriarchate in jerusalem has turned their building into a gay-disco .

hello Aratta-Kingdom , usa should recognize armenian genocide , BUT (thats what i originally meant ) but the diaspora has to in that case also count with harming the armenians still living in turkey . the diaspora should be aware of this fact . turkey often also has this argument " why are so many armenian citizens coming to turkey and living/working here? " . so , Aratta-Kingdom , lets say all armenians with turkish citizenships leave turkey ... do you believe the armenia-armenians are also going to leave turkey ? i think if anushik wants to tell me that my question to her was too personal she is able to tell me herself . because you dont answer a question with a question . very simple. i didnt understand your question here . "since you speak for everyone, who don't you say how they should live in their host countries"... please explain what you mean here . with "you people" i am referring to the posters in this thread . this forum is also here for armenians to discuss isnt it ? why do you have the feeling i am more prior to others here ? just because i want to show you another side of thinking ? or is it that a woman to maybe from your personal oppinion shouldnt have such sights ? is it not allowed to have different oppinions in this forum ? do i have to bitch and swear about turkey 24/7 to be accepted ? no , i dont have to . and i dont think i am waisting my time in this forum . i think everyone who is able to discuss in a cultivated mature manner can with me . but for a discussion one needs plausible argumentations . i find it rediculous to discuss with an armenian forum-user who swears vulgar , just because someone has a different oppinion than you . i think you can just as well articulate yourself more cultivated . see, with your negative attitude towards me you understand everything i write in a negative way ... i just wanted to point out that america has never denied armenian genocide , that it is all about the word "genocide" with which the americans can get revench on the turks next time america has problems with the turkish state . usa uses us as a playball . we all know how sensitive the term GENOCIDE is for turks .

thats the stereotype question armenians ask if they dont like someone : "are you a turk? " lol

ohlala, another paranoid armenian ... lol

when? lol , almost all armenians from armenia tell me this : i will go back to armenia , blablabla ...

why dont you pack and move to armenia?

anoushik , why are you not living in armenia ? where is your family originally from ? anoushik , you did NOT answer my question about what will happen to all these armenian institutions and who will take care of them in case all armenians leave turkey ! i asked a simple question and all i get is barab sarab answers . ohhh ... and do you believe armenia is socially and financially going to take care of these armenians if they come as refugees to armenia and immediately give them a place with 4 walls to live in ? or how do you imagine an armenian moving away from turkey to any other country with a turkish citizenship will be allowed to just stay ? i think you people think its as easy as "hey lets pack our clothes and tomorrow we move to armenia or italy " ... think realistic once !

gamavor , you or me could have been one of them today ! think , before you write .

@Arpa , sorry but i dont discuss on such primitive level , if you want to discuss in a more cultivated and logic way do so , but i will not waist my energy on posting back to any rediculous comments .

yes yes dominojan , you are totally right and also all the armenians living in california dont have any business there , california is or was never a part of western or eastern armenia too no ? and should also move all to armenia ... yes , all the armenians on this world should move to armenia hahaha ... why are you domino not living in armenia ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgwIpaHOYAA

Gamavor , your oppinions are racist and primitive . your arguments have no arm and no leg . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RljGoNZD8I http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-335857292932517366