khodja

For an Armenian to understand Armenian vengeance, one would have had to taste it themselves. I have tasted Armenian vengeance and I am an Armenian (if 7/8 Armenian qualifies as such). To undertand Turkish vengeance, one would have had to have tasted it themselves. I suspect that Ali, despite his family's prominence has been "jostled" by Turks due to his Oxford European perpectives.

Be Careful Sip, You may enrage some of the people here. How dare you claim that Christ was a JEW?????????

Hovsep, There were once Armenians who fought hard for the true Christianity. The Armenian nobles butchered them. Then some of them went to the south of France and instilled their true Christianity into the minds of these Cathars, known to be as pure as the driven snow. The Catholic hierarcy, rife with corruption (selling salvation to the highest bidders and with sexual debaucery filling the Vatican) sent troops to annihilate these Armenian-instilled believers, known as Albigensians or Cathars.

As examples, we can start with the late Princess Diana, who was 1/64 Armenian. Next Louise Manoogian Simone, one of the wealthiest Armenians, but who treats every Armenian she meets with a humility rare among those of her class. Mother Teresa. Interesting that it is difficult for me to think of a man off the top of my head. The only male who I can think of as a true Christian is Christ himself.

Hovsep, AMAN!!!!, AMAN!!!!!!, maybe your mentality is back in Amman. A true Christian would not kill animals for sport. A true Christian would not frequent prostitutes behind the back of their wives and then spit on these Armenian prostitutes, most of whom have children to feed. Anyone who disagrees with you is a homosexual?????

Sip, Yes, I agree that change must come in small steps with reflection. The problem, however, is reaching critical mass. Assimilation is rampant in the Diaspora and in the ROA many are choosing an alternative religious way, only to be browbeaten by the government authorities. Better to retain the parishoners naturally by administering to their needs instead of hitting them over the head with a stick. All gets back to the negative aspects of our culture, probably assimilated from the Ottomans.

Thank you Nairi. Now you understand why so much of the civilized world could care less that a majority of our people were eliminated between 1895 and 1923. We do not treat our animals or our outcasts very well, yet we want others to feel our collective pain.

Sip, I have found you to be far seeing into the future. Do you think that we can start a movement to bring our wordwide diaspora and the ROA into the present age without losing our uniqueness as a people? It is the de rigeur mentality of many Armenians which is destroying us. Why these rigid people can't see what harm they are causing amazes me.

More publicity, this time in UK Financial Times showing how backward the Armenian Church is. Why does the Church accept animal sacrifice if we are so "advanced" a culture. When are the Armenian priests going to modenize their clerical vestments? When my cousin, an Armenian Protestant, married her Loosavorchagan husband she refused to be married by a hooded Armenian priest (a la Darth Vader). If the Armenian Church hierarchy wants to hold on to it's flock it should do it by modernizing instead of ruling with an iron fist. If it is losing people in the ROA and in the Diaspora then it is not doing enough to hold on to it's parisioners. The Nazi approach will not work in a free society. Just because the Georgians and Russians are making fools of themselves in the Western media, doesn't mean the Armenians should follow suit.

Hopefully the Turkish government will realize that coming clean about what happened is in their long term interests. The whole truth and nothing but the truth. Same goes for those Armenians who want to gloss over the Armenian provocations. As far as brainwashing goes, this is universal to world governments and corporations. American children in the 1950's were taught that Native Americans were brutual savages hell-bent on scalping little European children, thereby obfuscating the true history. The Japanese government still glosses over the Rape of Nanking, where Japanese troops brutally massacred thousands of innocent Chinese civilians for no apparent reason. American pharmaceutical companies falsify drug reviews and bribe FDA officials to get potentially harmful drugs approved. The teaching of Christ have been so distorted by the Christian Churches, including the Armenian Church that they no longer resemble the core teachings of Christ (e.g. priests conducting massive molestation of children). American corporations have been "cooking the books" to give false information to their stockholders. It is only when these entities are brought to task that they come clean. Turkey is beginning to realize that covering up the Genocide is harming them financially. The equation has changed since the demise of the Soviet Union.

Ali has a point when he speaks of multi-ethnic nations. To put things into perspective, let us look to the great empire of Tigran the Great which stretched from the region of Jerusalem to the Caspian. Only small portion of his territory was inhabited by Armenians. He relocated Greek and Jewish artisans into his capitol to improve commerce. The Armenian nation during empire building was NO different than any other.

Ali, Armenians are probably frozen by disbelief, or feel that what will be taught is the standard Turkish government line that the Armenian population en masse, even my 11-month massacred aunt, was at war with the state. Or perhaps that all the Armenians died due to the vagaries of war, lack of food, etc. Nobody claims that there was not provocation, (some claim that this provocation was justified, given the poor treatment of the Armenians), but it is very clear that multitudes of civilian Armenians were intentionally put to death. Starving people do not make rivers run red.

It is called downward mobility, growing up in a the golden ghetto of a blue-collar community, after early socialization by a father trained in private European schools. This sharp downward mobility courtesy of the Ittihadist regime.

MJ, The "angels" are what sits on your shouders when you are praying. "Angles" are what add up to 180 degrees in a triangle. Your angels may be sitting in your triangle but mine are speaking to me telepathically.

MJ, It is not only the ignorant peasants who do this kind of stuff, but also the very wealthy who want to not dissipate their wealth. Keeping the money in the family is the primary concern. Nevertheless, your snide comment is not appreciated. I tested in the 180 IQ range in grade school and in the high 130 IQ range as I finished high school. Only a Sovietized mentality who would consider me a cretin.

Nairi requested that I repost this passage from another thread in this forum here, for Marco's benefit: "To expand on the discussion initiated by Ali, one is only considered Armenian if one passes ALL the litmus tests. Since I am 1/8 Assyrian and only 7/8 Armenian, I am considered suspect. Since my family was a mix of Armenian Catholic and Armenian Orthodox, I am considered suspect. Since I was raised in a non-Armenian Protestant Church, I am considered suspect. Since I speak and act like a pure American (despite speaking Armenian), I am considered suspect. Since I have come to understand that Armenians have strains of Hebrew, Mongol/Chinese, French and German blood running in their veins from centuries past, I am considered suspect. A community with such a ridiculous mentality will eventually disappear as it is one that currently minimizes itself."

Sip, First, why do you think that Adam and Eve were siblings? Secondly, why do you think that Armenians aren't into incest anymore? My parents were second cousins. There are instances in my family of even closer family members marrying. This all among Armenians. Yeah, I also did not a any cute sister, only cute girl cousins. But this type of thing is frowned upon in America. It was OK for our parent's generation though, as it is so prevalent in my family.

Nairi, How do I copy this entry into thre Love and Romance thread?

When God placed us upon this Earth, SEX, SEX, SEX was part of what he or she established for us. It is part of our genetic code. It is as natural as eating, sleeping, going to the toilet, sneezing, coughing, etc. Get used to it in all it's various forms. Stop being part of the Islamic world. Why are we acting like we are part of the fundamentalist Islamic world?

100% ARMENIANS is pure myth. When this myth dies so will our misfortunes. We are not, nor have ever been, pure anything but a mongrel race. By shunning anyone who is considered any part something else we are defeating ourselves.

It all comes back to what we were discussing in another thread today, the Armenian propensity to shun others instead of bringing them into the community. That is why the Jews on an upswing and we are collectively going downhill. If the parents had accepted Marco and brought him into the family, the children could have been raised with Armenian awareness. A compromise could have been made for religious differences, there is an Armenian Catholic Church you know. All gets back to the self-serving hierarchy of the Armenian Church. We are fools.

Sorry folks for my mispellings. This IBM keyboard belongs in the garbage can.

To expand on the discussion initiated by Ali, one is only considered an Armenian if one passes ALL the litmus tests. Since I am 1/8 Assyrian and on;ly 7/8 Armenian, I am considered suspect. Since my family was a mix of Armenia Catholic and Armenian Orthodox, I am considered suspect. Since I was raised in a non-Armenian Protestant Church, I am considered suspect. Since I speak and act like a pure American (despite speaking Armenian), I am considered suspect. Since I have come to understand that Armenians have strains of Hebrew, Mongol/Chinese, French and German blood running in their veins from centuries past, I am considered suspect. A community with such a ridiculous mentality will eventually disappear as it is one that currently minimizes itself.

Gentlemen, Let us say that in a dream world that the Turkish Government agrees to relinquish the six eastern provinces to Armenia in some kind of diplomatic deal. What the h--l is the Armenian government going to do with this wasteland when it is having trouble adminstering the small ROA? Who is going to settle there, surely not my relatives living in the 16 arondissement and plush suburbs of Paris or the US suburbs. And how are we going to militarily ptoect these lands? Let the Turks burdrn their domestic economy with miliary expenditures. Japan became an economic powerhouse after WWII because it no longer had to deal with funding a military. The West supplied it with military protection.

Gentlemen, December 2001 is already old news. On July 7, 2002 Listserver Kevin Brook, who listed the December 2001 article followed it up with a letter to the Jerusalem Post where he clearly state that the Lemba tribe, Kurds and Armenians also share the Cohen Modal Haplotype with the Jews. He states that Arabs only share other y-chromosome markers. Thus Kurds and Armenains are closer to the Jews than the Arabs. ROA study was financed by British who sponsored ROA head geneticist Levon Yepiskoposyan as a Royal Fellow at University College London. His genetic team in Yerevan found Cohen modal Haplotype connection to Jews. The eminent scientist's study was quickly buried as it is not politically correct.