Z'areh

Thanks Mosjan! Unfortunately, (or fortunately, I don't know) I think the Javakhk issue is only going to get heated up and we needed a special place to discuss it . thanks again.

So, what is Saakashvili's government up to with the leadership of the Armenian communities in Javakhk? Is this tie-sucking Georgian leader about to go into another failed adventure with the Armenians? Or is it that he has lost all credibility and power within his government that other more fascistic elements are gaining control. Perhaps they think with the Artsakh issue not fully resolved it would be an opportune time to strike at the Armenians of Javakhk? Note to the moderators of Hyeforum: I think it is about time to open a new heading under "Javakhk" in the "Armenia" section of this forum.

I'm afraid this is not just hot air from a high ranking Turkish official, his statements are corroborated quite loudly and with a sense of accomplishment by our high ranking officials, in the persona of Prime Minister Tigran Sargsian and Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian. Armenia officially has given all the breaks to the Obama administration not to recognize "something" that might possibly harm this newly established and flourishing relationship that is so full of love and mutual respect. The Sargsian regime wants their cake and eat it too.

Arpa, this issue is about us and who we are and not about H's. I don't give a rat's ass what H's, Russians, Hungarians etc...think about us.

Aratta K jan, I am very happy that you have a good knowledge about philosophy. Understanding it is another matter. OK, thank you for your attempts to "answer" simple questions. We might be communicating in English or in Armenian, but it is Chinese that we are speaking. I don't know Chinese, and I would guess neither do you.

The problem is that there can be one truth out there, but two people will regard the same truth in different ways. The difficulty in reaching a consensus is to be free of subjectivity. To rise above "obstacles" as you mention, is first to be able to be objective and be free of prejudices, as I mentioned before. Without the second you cannot possibly have the first. chlsecir qo uzats patasxan@, vorovhetev jshmartutyan@ bnutagrogh qo andznakan bacatrutrutyann eir spasum. I think we have a misunderstanding here. If I wanted answers from you that would please me I wouldn't have asked you in the first place. I really want your own answers, that is: qo andznakan bacatrutrutyan@ to my simple question that asks: what do you want to see happen with the truth that establishes the fact of Jewish Genocide of Armenians? What is the next step? I simply did not hear an answer to that question, not what I want to hear but what you want to say.

I don't know what that means. Voch, Tjpakhtapar. Ports'n akam ch'rir. Hok ché One day perhaps we'll understand each other. /

Truth! I think all of us would like to learn the Truth, the real, unbiased and perfectly objective truth. A very difficult human task. To truly succeed we have to be born again and wipe out all the memories and prejudices we've held previously. Masamp. ..and what would you like to see happen after the Truth is established? I really want to figure this out.

Aratta K, I have a couple of questions for you, perhaps to Dave too because he is the originator of this thread. To what end do you want to take your opinion of "Jewish involvement" in the Armenian genocide, and what would you like to see happen with this issue in an ideal world according to you? The reason why I ask these questions is my belief that you are a decent individual who wishes nothing but the best for Armenia and Armenians. And there are more than a few who seem to subscribe to this notion. I think it is fair for me to ask you this question in light of your constant "misunderstanding" every time I give an opinion on the subject of "Jews" being responsible for, what I and everybody correctly call the Turkish genocide of Armenians, which you translate it as "defending Jews". I don't object or mind really the accusation of "defending Jews", or any other group for that matter, but in this case I am far from being a defender of Jewish interests, as you would like to formulate. Inch pan@ grna kez kohatsnel ays hartsi metch, yetté toon ullayir abakan gerdogh@?

AK, not that i have to explain, but I left because I had to travel for work. Then later I saw that your article had been posted. Do I understand correctly that you are angry because your article appeared later than you had wished, how is that an issue? You seem to be offended at a turn of a coin.

I can't forgive you for rubbing it in. It's Brrrrr city here in Montreal about -10 Fahrenheit But boy is it ever good for a nice single malt.... but I digress!!!!

First, let me say that my intentions were not to be aither sarcastic or pompous, if that is what I have done I apologize. I duess that is my way of expressing frustration. Secondly, what gives you the idea that I am defending Jews, why not Turks and Germans and Cambodians, why do you only see the "jews" in my comments? If there is one thing that I have always defended is Armenians" and Armenia"s interests. Your question posed to mje simply underlines that either I was not clear or you do not understand what I am saying. As for "IF AN ARMENIAN CAME TO POWER IN THE PALESTINE, AND HAS ORDERED A MASSACRE ON THE JEWS, YOU SHOULD HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THE JEWS WOULD YELL AT YOUR FACE THAT ARMENIANS HAD A VERY LARGE SCALE SUPPORT IN THE MATTER." Who cares? that does not make it right. You also say " So let's cut the bull**** and get down to some real interesting talks, such as how should we get our voices across and get whatever we want..." By all means let us, we should make our voices heard to get what is ours...From Turkey! Everything else is not only waste of time and energy but completely useless.

Here we go again, and again It seems to me that some people are fascinated with the idea of Jews having committed genocide against Armenians. Some people are also fascinated with UFO's and extra-terrestrial intelligent life, and there are even those who accuse God of shamefully creating humans. Have your pick! Once and for all (no doubt to be repeated at a later date) The Armenian genocide was perpetrated by a State called the Ottoman Empire, it's leadership were the citizens of the Ottoman Empire, its victims were also the citizens of the Ottoman Empire. This was a crime that had its roots in nationalism, xenophobia and outright thievery. The national/religious affiliation or beliefs of the individual criminals in this leadership are absolutely inconsequential. Any attempt to minimize the responsibility of the State and shift it to a third or a fourth party, chips away the legal basis for Armenian demands for justice from Turkey, the inheritors of the Ottoman empire, besides the legal aspects of the crime, it loosens the noose and frees the Turks moral responsibilities. Turks would love to shift the blame on Jews, and we would be helping them in the process. One important thing: Nations such as Jews, Turks, Germans, Cambodians etc... do not commit genocide, the criminals are the leadership of a State who commit those acts. When Kurds of Arbil were gazed and 5000 villagers were massacred we did not blame the Arabs of Iraq, we blamed Saddam Hussain and his Baath party. Once and for all, for the time being!

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domesti...010.asp?gid=244 "After CNN's plans to broadcast the documentary became clear, Turkish officials contacted the network and briefed it on Ankara's position on the matter." Need to say more? Turkish officials contacted the network... before the broadcasting. .

100% hamatsain, Mergatsnel, ayn lezvov vor irenk ge hasganan, polor anonts voronk mer vra tav g@ husen. Ays "Xagh@" Betk e Xaghal irentz orenknerov. Ge naxndrem irents atchkin yervnal zzveli yev adeli kan te xelok ou "pari kaghakatsi", yev hantsnem im iravounkners irents. VOTCH! One of the rules is to remain polite, and put in use the Armenian saying : anouche lezvov k--nenk! We are the generation equipped to doing it.

Great job AK.

I can definitely get used to "Prime Minister Dion" Happy Times are Hear Again! Oh, one more thing, expect really good legislations to pass! /

Don't forget, it's CNN so by definition it's going to be superficial, a non-academic and a simple telling of a serious subject will be essential to the general American public, who's attention span is -- this long. But, any and every "whisper" about us that does not question the facts, brings the true recognition of our cause a step closer.

December 4th at 9pm. A two hour special show on genocide. Armenian genocide is going to be discussed in relation to Raphael Lamkin's terminology. You can visit the site and ask her a question, I did! go to iReport section and click on "share your story".

The saying "with friends like these who needs enemies" has always applied to the Russian friendship with Armenians. Being fully aware of a given nation's self-interest as being the driving factor of any country, the Russian national interests somehow has always been achieved at the expense of other nations. It seems that Russia can only "grow" by crushing or causing the potential destruction of others, and Armenia is not immune from such policies. Therefore, Armenians should always treat this Russian-Armenian friendship with a bagful of salt, reminding them that Russian interests can get a beating if Armenia is regarded as just a "territory at their disposal". There are a few but potently effective options at our disposal for this "reminder" I hope the Armenian leadership will demonstrate the courage to make the Russians "reflect" on the consequences of such Russian attitude which says "let's use the Armenians to our benefit and give nothing in return" It is, and always was, up to the Armenians to remind friends how to behave as such, not doing so will be at our own peril.

Armenia IS the David in facing Goliaths of the world. CONGRATULATIONS!!! Click below to watch photos of Armenian champs in the final games, with proud President Serj Sarkissian having just a great time, and symbolically opening the game's first move. The following is from the official site of the Chess Olympiad in Dresden. http://picasaweb.google.com/SPICEChess/11OlympiadRound11# /

The budget for Azerbaijan for the fiscal year 2008-2009 was formulated with oil prices hovering above $120 per barrel. Now the barrel of oil below $50, this uni-industry nation will face problems, to put it mildly. Already infected with Dutch-decease , Azerbaijan will soon see massive layouts to compound already widespread poverty. I guess soon Ilkhiar Alyiev will have to return the newly-bought tanks and armaments back to the countries he purchased from.

Once a Turkish commentator said that it is the Office that makes the man not the other way around. This was when Nancy Pelosi just got the job of the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives and the immediate issue of putting the AG resolution for a vote began to heat up. The logic of the saying is in the realization that an individual is too small to have his or her will impose within the framework of the greater rules of a high government post. The Office, in this case, is the highest post in the US government and whoever gets this post is forced to play by the rules of the "Office", according to the logic. Although there is a certain truth in this viewpoint but nonetheless one also has to realize that George Bush made a mockery of this logic. If there are rules that one has to obey in becoming a President then these rules should also work against those who would want to break them, as we witnessed during the past eight years the Office did not make the man, Bush played by his own rules, with impunity. Therefore, relying on the "omnipotence" of a certain code of behaviour in becoming a President is just a theory, if George Bush can break them to do the worst, Obama in his turn can break them for the better. I guess soon we will see how will Obama reconcile the requirements of the "office" rules, (the Turks are so hoping for), with what he has pledged to do, (Armenians are counting on). But to the detriment of Turkish hopes, if the comparisons of Obama with that of Roosevelt, the political pundits are making these days, are true then there is hope for decency in the rules of this Office. To us, Armenians, our strongest weapon is having to deal with decency. Difficult tasks in all forms are waiting for Obama, it will be very interesting to see this man operate, the people he selects to surround him will be a first peak for us. The Clinton gang, the Albrights and all, will be bad news. .

It would be a tremendous moral victory, and a much delayed respect towards our martyrs, to have the entire world recognize our greatest tragedy and called it as it is, a "Genocide". If Mr. Obama decides to go the extra mile and give an official US recognition I think every Armenian would be very happy. If however Obama refuses to recognize our genocide (or postpones it), a few potentially positive things for Armenia might follow; -The Turks will calm down and will have a (false) sense of accomplishment that their political maneuverings have yielded results again. -In return, pressure will mount on Turkey by the Obama administration to do things that the Turks otherwise would be reticent to accept, not least of it being the opening of the Turkish/Armenian border. -Azerbaijan will not be happy, but more importantly Turkey will not risk genocide recognition to satisfy Azerbaijan, even-though both countries' ultimate aim is the eventual destruction of Armenia, or at least turn it into a weak and irrelevant non-State. But a rapprochement by Turkey towards Armenia, which inevitably would result in the opening of the borders, would weaken Azerbaijan's hand to the benefit of Armenia. -More pressure on Obama by Armenians to work towards forcing Azerbaijan to accept a truly fair resolution for Artsakh, and provide stronger political/economic support for Armenia Genocide recognition v.s. freedom for Artsakh are not mutually exclusive issues, but my personal opinion is that securing concrete political dividends for Armenia towards the Artsakh is far more important than securing a declaration (which would amount to a moral victory) and in doing so letting Turkey and Russia have the upper hand on Artsakh resolution, a dangerous combination especially now that Russia is tilting towards Azerbaijan. Genocide recognition will happen eventually, I have not the slightest doubt, but today winning the political war in Artsakh (and military war, if the need be again) would be the greatest tribute and honour we can bestow upon the memory of our martyrs. .

Pardon me MyTerrain, I can't quite comprehend your genuine worries about Armenia's defense capabilities but at the same time proudly displaying the flag of Serbia in your name/profile when Serbia has voted with Azerbaijan against Armenia, along with an array of Muslim countries, in that pitiful UN resolution calling for resolving the Artsakh issue within Azerbaijan's territorial integrity. I am amazed to see that after all that we've been through, there is still exists these false aspirations by some Armenians of a wish for false "Orthodox brotherhood". A dichotomy between theory (religious affiliation) and practice (whorish realpolotik) is clearly spelled out to us and therefore its about time we stopped licking others' arses.