Karen

Arpa, just a few words of what I think about it. I'm not a big supporter of political (!) "dialogue" between Armenia and Turkey. There is nothing to be discussed anymore. Turkey's lost its chance to ratify damned Protocols, Armenia has pulled out from ratification process. Now it's Turkey who must make a step forward. And the only content of negtiation would be the liquidation of consequences of the Genocide. This is what Serge Sargsian, Edward Nalbandian and all other Armenian officials say. No talks about what happened in the past (as for us it's clear it was Genocide). No attempts to re-qalify what happened into something else, something less dramatic. Only talks about fixng the problem. What would suit Armenian Government in terms of having turks fixing the consequences of Genocide - that I don't know. Now, as far as contacts of so called "civil society" of the two countries are concerned... What problems do you see here? Yes, Hetq is the type of media which is always in opposition to the Government no matter what. They are the kinds like Levon Ter-Petrosyan who would only survive and go on as long as US, EU and Turkish cash injections to them are made. And I can care less. For one Armenian media resource of that kind there are same number of pro-armenian, helthy, sober, steightforward media. AND THEY ALSO COVERED WITH JOY THE OPENING OF ST. KIRAKOS IN DIARBEKIR. It's jus the news coverage, that's all. And it relates to us, Armenians. So, why ignore it. Personally, I can see only advantages of St. Kirakos affair. Firstly, local kurdified Armenians can finally find themseles a place of legal, official worship, a place where they can by a copy of Bible in Turkish or Kurdish and read it, etc., etc. Secondly, it becomes a good precedent for Armenians of Turkey to claim back and restore other hundereds upon hunderds of churches around the country. It's definitely better to do that as it saves out historical heritage along the line - compared to bulding of dozens of new churches in Istanbul area. Finally, it's a mutual step towards each others between kurds and armenians which leaves turks out of the process, makes them merely a bystanding observer. (I have no illusions about kurds but we can benefit from their relative tolerance to us and get back some of our properties, etc.) Summarizing, I see nothing wrong, if properties of turkish armenians expand to include churches (and not only churches) in Armenian Highland and adjusent areas. What ours - shall belong to us. If turkish armenians are the only ones who can realize their property right and restore the title - let them do it. If these assets attract some couple of thousand visitors from Istanbul, couple of dozen from Yerevan, and 3-4 people from Diaspora - I see no harm.

To all those in the Spyrk. Please, spread this sad news from Javakhk, Georgia. As you might already heard, Georgians on July 20-22 - in 48 hours - crashed the United Javakhk Alliance. United Javakhk Allianc is/was the only organization, capable to protest the Kars-Akhalkalaki railroad construction, which one of the main links in panturkic corridor arounf Armenia. Alliance was fighting against expulsion of Armenians from Javakhk (in the course of so called "white genocide" just like it happened in Nakhijevan before). Javakhk Alliance fought against redemption of Armenian churches from Armenian community and their subsequent georganization. In so many words - it was the stone in the Georgian shoe. Now the active Alliance members are arrested and brought to prison on the made-up charges of alleged illegal firearms possession, etc. The Georgian SWAT operates in the region, controls the city of Akhalkalak and suburbs. Two local Armenian police were shot under unspecified circumstances - allegedly by Georgian SWAT to blame local Armenians and to have the case against Alliance members. Please, spread the word to your local Armenian organizations (ANCA, AAA) as Armenian mass-media is silent on the matter, not to mention Georgians. We can't afford loosing our "Northern Zangezur" (Javakhk). We can't afford loosing yet another province of Armenia.

As you might already know, Azeri government is currently destroying a single big non-muslim cemetery in the center of Baku, capital of Azerbaijan. Due to outflow of non-turkic popuation from Azerbaijan, many of the graves remained unattended. This includes Armenian graves for obvious reasons. The pretext for the destruction is the construction of a motor-way through the territory of the burial site. However, had there been a little respect to the buried ones, the construction could have bypassed the cemetery. Here, Azeris acted as usual, as they did with khachkars in Nakhijevan. See the destruction video here: The grave-stones have Russian-language inscriptions as Baku's predominant language was Russian. Howvere, those are mostly Armenian and Russian graves with some Jewish graves here and there. You can search the Internet for details under the search term Montino cemetery destruction, Narimanovskoe cemetery destruction (same place with two different names applied) or just Baku cemetery destruction. Share the link in your Armenian community or on-line with your friends. It is already in the Russian news. Armenians (especially those of Baku descent, most of whom have relatives on that exact cemetery) are trying to appeal the destruction through the Russian embassy in Azerbaijan. We have all chanses to expose vandals for whom they really are this time. Karen.

I don't know where you guys are coming from... Your logic, as I see it, is the following: "Let's make some sesible deal with Azeris, so they would be cool with us, and let's move on. If it takes any little concession from us, which does not harm much our security, let's do it". You all are missing one thing. The Turk or Azeri Turk is not us. It is we, who would be satisfied by getting back the ruins of Ani and nothern slopes of Ararat. Not the Turk. The Turk isn't satisfied until the complete "return" of Artsakh to their jurisdiction (read, complete annihilation of Artsakh Armenians). Same with Anatolian Turks. The recent article in Russian media says (quoting some top-ranking Turkish officials) that even if Armenia withdrows from occupied territory around Artsakh and agrees to a postponed referendum (in 15 years) on Artsakh's status (in former Soviet borders) - Turkey (SIC!) will still not open its borders with Armenia, up until the complete return of Artsakh to Azeri jurisdiction... This is the logis we are dealing with. The only reason for, how you call it, the "hysteria", is that recently (in last couple of months) this very logis became even more pronounced than before. And in a recent week it was picked up by the OSCE Minsk Group mediators and, even more so, by some RoA officials, like Oskanian and such... Stay tuned and see what's coming. We gonna have public protests in Yerevan, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, all over Russia, as well as in some communities over Europe, - held in front of Roa embassies. We don't need the Government, which admits the very thought of giving something back. Sorry that you guys didn't even apply to your local Armenian organizations and RoA diplomatic offices for explanations.

Aaron jan - that's the essence of the problem. People in Diaspora (I'm also a diasporan) fail to recognize that this is not the matter of "arevdur". What we control now is a minimal space which provides security to Artsakh. Giving anything back in the course of arevdur increases military risks exponentially. Had we controlled lands up to the Kur river, I could have agreed to some territorial compromises. How else could I make this more clear? Imagine a Cilician kingdom, having excess to Mediterranean sea and controlling major trade routs. And than it falls under attack of Egyptian mamluks, who, as a way of compromise with Armenians, propose a small autonomy in the mountains of Zeitun and Hajn... Don't you realize that the only "arevdur" Azeris are talking about is bringing Artsakh back to a tiny autonomy with no mutual borders with Armenia?

This is an interview with Armen Aivazyan from http://www.hayq.org , the director of Ararat Center of Strategic Research. Sort of a non-partisan think tank. He basically confirms that things can get bad. That there were (and are) a lot of signs of that.

Artsakh is already an independendt state. We don't need any "recognitions", if we pay for it with the return of any lands. Especially for Abbass80. If you had no chance to visit Agdam region, (which in your option could be subject to surrender), I can describe the picture to you as clear as it gets. The tollest building in Aghdam-2007 is the minaret of a mosque - the only building staying intact. When you climb the minaret to the top you see a panorama of abandoned and ruined city around you. What you also can see - and count! - are the buildings (and in clear whether the windows in the buildings) in the city of Shoushi... It is only 25 kilometres (some 15 miles) away from Aghdam - a dirct artillary shot. If you give up Agdam plain you are welcoming the azeri agression over again. We've been there, we've seen it. Any surrender of any piece of land anywhere around Artsakh - is a way of saying to azeri turks "please, come and f... us again. We enjoyed it the last time". Which I don't see feasible. Azeri media provocation? All right. Then why our boston-educated mouthpiece foreign minister Vardan Oskanian treats us like dirt? Why wouldn't his ministry dismiss the azeri falsifications, which are already 4 days old? Where is the reaction of Armenian government for Gods sake? Nespapaers? Independent media? Do we as armenians not deserve to be kept informed? I know it seems much calmer for your shore of the Atlantic. You see the bigger picture - which generally is all right. But when you have a sort of hands-on apprach, when you hear weekly Azeri president's threats to attack Armenia-Artsakh (with no single reprimand from international community, mediators, OSCE). When you hear mediators saying what suits Azeri side only. When you wittness a complete silence of Armenian Government - no reaction at all. When you couple that with the destruction of Jugha khachkars, when the word again smiled at us and did nothing to stop the vandals... you know, sometimes it's just more than one simple Armenian with the sence of dignity can handle. Let's see if our action does any difference.

If most of you are in LA, then you could have at least shown that you care by collectively going to your local ANCA office and demanding some explanations on what's happening. Spread the message - raise public awareness. Show that you care. At least e-mail your local Armenian oranizations. I switch off due to time difference. Following up tomorrow.

Coverage of action by Groong: http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg190700.html

There will be a Kocharian - Aliev meeting in St. Peterburg (Russia) approximately June 10. The Minsk Group mediators are coming to Armenia around June 6 - to test the grounds for surrender. It is expected that St. Pete meeting will turn into an Armenian catastrophy. During this several days we should organize ourselves - show to mediators, Kocharian, anyone our standing on the issue. If they agree - than we, as ordinary Armenians don't. We should succeed in creating an atmosphere, in which no concession, no surrendering of lands is possible. We should get our message to those in power - be those Armenian government or Diaspora organization, financing such government. This becomes really serious as you get no news coverage from official sources - they censore stuff. Do anything you can do within legal boundaries. Organize meetings before Armenian embassies in LA and DC. Do something before its too late.

If you are not aware of the recent developments, please, be informed that French and Russian mediators of Minsk Group, speaking at press-conference in Baku, made a shocking to all Armenians statement. They said that there is an agreement at hand, according to which all 7 liberated regions around Artsakh will be returned shortly (probably during the course of this year). They also stated that there is an agreement that Artsakh (within the former borders of soviet autonomy) would become an integral part of Azerbaijan... If this doesn't ring the bell - than what? Below is a list of web-resources, which take part in action. The list is growing. Plus, we started a fax-e-mail compaign (just like ANCA or AAA does). E-mails, with the declaration attached, are being sent all over Armenian political figures, parties, NPOs, TV channels, etc., etc, all over the world. ANCA is informed. The campaign effectively becomes something what we had in 1988 on the rise of Artsakh movement. We have the news coverage from top Russian news agencies. Don't get us wrong - this is not the matter which concerns Russian Armenians only. We have votes from EU Armenian NGOs as well, particularly from Switzerland and Germany. Please, spread the link to the action to as many Diaspora web-resources and forums as possible. Not only the number of signatures of users is important. The very participation of the Western Armenian (Diaspora) web-resource will signify the unity of Armenians all over the world. We had a Shourj-par (Armenian circle dance) around Aragatz in early summer of 2005. This one becomes a Shourj-par around Armenia and Artsakh. We do not give personal contacts / e-mails for obvious reasons. You can sign-up to the action at the link above. Staying ignorant when the land is sold - just like at Kars/Moscow treaty of 1921 - is your choice. Think of what you'd tell your children, when there will be no Armenia to go for summer vacation to. Think of becoming Assyrian. You like it? I don't. OpenArmenia Администрация ArmenianHouse.org Сообщество NKR Сообщество "Карабах" Сообщество Artsakh.info Коллектив Genocide.ru Portal.Am VIP Multilingual Forums Аналитический центр "Митк" www.haias.net Hayastan.com город Дилижан www.dilijan.ru sirumem.com Association Suisse-Arménie KarabakhOpen Andranik Youth Club "Aliance" гражданская инициатива Sumgait.info Haylife.ru Merhayrenik.narod.ru Миацум.Ру Armiane.spb.ru Haytun.com www.armenia-online.de Нвер.Ру Jugend-und Studentenföderation "Nor Serunt" Фотоблоги Армении Armenian Knowledge Base

http://openarmenia.com/ Karen

Is there anyone speaking turkish? I've been visiting this site http://www.haberler.com/ and came across an article titled: Pasinler'deki Kurtulu? T?reninde Ermeniler S?ng?lenmedi The link to the article: http://www.haberler.com/pasinler-deki-kurt...meniler-haberi/ This festivity is taking place in historical Basen (today's Pasinler) between Erzerum and Kars. http://resimler.haberler.com/haber/28/715028_97651_o.jpg

Many thanks to those who replied. I talked to the guys and it seems the question had beed resolved. It was a memoir-autobiography of some figure who's originally from Terjan area. And he briefly mentioned in his Armenian language writing the two names, without metioning who or what it was... It made them puzzle over the names, as in the context those could have ranged from the personal names-nicknames to names of geographical localities, etc. Finally, they connected to the offsprings of the author, who currently live in Armenia, and they clarified that Rap and Khnkinots actually were nick-names of fedayees, who were born in Terjan area. Personally, it doesn't make a lot of sence as, for example, "Rap" couldn't be rationally interpreted based on Armenian linguistics... So far, so much. Karen.