Vigil

Sev-Mard I wrote gizzilian page reply, but the moderators have put me on probation, which is why I am not going to bother retyping it. Anyways, MODERATORS PLEASE PST THIS SO HE KNOWS THAT I WAS GOING TO REPLY TO HIM. I am not going to look like a coward. All I can say that in my post I did not agree with and then some, peace. By the way, I am going to stop posting on these boards, so, I guess the moderators have picked the better Armenian and this is the decision they have to live with, peace.

You can claim to not like my intentions, but that doesn't really bother me. Seeing as my intentions are only to myself and those important to me, of which you are not. I'm not playing the race card, you are playing the race card, again and again. Sev-Mard, I can bring you statistics that show the ratio of Black men with White woman is MUCH HIGHER then the ratio to White men and Black females, which why I will never buy your innocent explanations of this holds not social impact on your life. Furthermore, yes, you would gain something and the that something is actually being part of a “group of people” rather then the bottom of barrel. Please, do not try to convince me otherwise I just do not buy and will never buy it. NO, your intentions do affect me in that you are the indirect cause for the decline of my people. Like I stated the before, the chances of you finding an African-American companion outweighs those of me finding an Armenian companion in terms of numbers. If you can pick from at least 20 million I can only pick from the few thousand in my area. Furthermore, I will never directly “tap” into your market because frankly Armenian males have no connection with African females and even if I did decide to “get to know” a African female I would never claim that I am African or try to think that because I can wear a “Dashiki” then eventually I can replace the African male. You may tell me otherwise, but in essence that is what you are trying to do. I AM SURE THAT IN TWENTY YEARS FROM NOW, if things escalated to the point of “marriage” your children would mostly likely be encouraged to pursue their Armenian half because by default there is not African half. Eventually, this will marginalize and contaminate our gene pool and once this is done hundreds of years from now you will have Africans claiming that Armenians were “Black” like Jews now claim Armenians were Jews. Sorry, but how ever “nice” I try to be I just can not allow this to happen. I don’t want Armenians to be reduced to a mongrelized race because frankly race refers to only one group of people. I do not want Armenians to be born black, white, yellow, or brown because once this happens there are no Armenians in the world. Lastly, any time a half black child is born, they are black. Any attempt to “categorize” them as White or in this case more specifically Armenian, is in vain because the color of their skin automatically pushes them into the black camp. Yes, you can consider yourself Armenia in hopes of being part of a culture, but in no way will you ever change the color of your skin and when most Armenians are white this creates a big problem In short, I do not care what you do with your life or what that girl does, but please do not tell me it does affect me because seeing as to how half the Armenian population lives abroad, I, as a Armenian, have the God given right to give a dam. Furthermore, I get more mad when the rest of the Armenians on this board automatically consider you or your future descendents a “full fledged” Armenian without realizing that they are slowly lowering the standards of what it means to be a Armenian, thus, when the standards are low enough no attempt to preserve your ethnicity will be made by the youth because if indeed we become “mongrels” then why would I want to be a Armenian “mongrel” when I can be a American national? No, those blacks do not come, but the ideas and suggestions made here are taken very seriously by the Armenian youth. If I make it seem like there is no harm or loss if a Armenian male or female not only mixes with another ethnicity, but another race for that matter, then slowly they will stop “preserving” the culture all together. In fact this happening on a social scale where the Armenian community has made it ok to emulate black culture, thus, leading to the decline of the Armenian culture and people. To be honest I will most likely fall victim to the vices I preach, but at no point will I actually deem it ok and what makes me bring up this subject is the fact you think it is racism, when I feel it is necessary for survival. For you it could it seem like just another girl, but for me it means that there is one less Armenian being born in the world. What shackles? You actually think that I find slavery a good thing? First of all, I think it is pointless for white Americans to remain pure because frankly they brought the Africans over here and colonized them, which is why a KKK member trying to remain “white” is pointless because of the shear fact that he is a American like the African-American. On the other hand, Armenians will always be known for being Armenians, they do not need to resort to be Americans because being American is a nationality in that it is a group of people from various different backgrounds uniting under one banner. Before I was American I was Armenian, but before an American was American he was American, so, he can not crucify or not mix with another American including a black American. The worse thing that could happen to me is that I decide to go back to my country, but a white and black American does not have that luxury because this is their country. Furthermore, numbers wise 1 million Armenian not mixing with 270 million Americans will not affect the gene pool or create any significant change, but 270 million Americans mixing with 1 million Armenians will signal the loss of a sixth of the Armenian population. Now, I do not know about you, but a loss of that magnitude overtime has a very negative affect on the population. This is why the death of the one and a half million Armenians has directly cause the decline of the Armenian population worldwide. If that loss did not happen there would have been A LOT more Armenians today, so, please do not tell me that I do not have a reason to care because I have all the right in the world to care seeing as to how serious the issue is. If everyone thought like your liberal girlfriend then I, as a Armenian would not exist today. I would most likely be worshiping Mecca five times and day in the boondocks of Iran, while at the same time reading the Koran in Persian. Yes, that is exactly my point. Even though you are telling me that you are not trying to replace the Armenian indirectly that is exactly what you are doing. You do not need to learn Armenian to communicate with your wife or her family because they have to accept for what you are, which is a Black Male from the Caribbean. This is the same reason why the conversion of Non-Jews to the Jewish is just as bogus as what you are trying to do. If Armenians want to accept you, then, they have to accept for you’re the color of your skin, not by how many languages you speak or how much you know about our culture. See, this is just another attempt to “fit in” or to make your decision seem more attractive, please, stop the innocent façade because I do not buy it. HAHA…tribute to your girlfriend more likely you are trying to make yourself look like a reasonable candidate. Tell me Sev-Mard, what differences does it make if you know Armenian or not? I mean if they love you for “who you are” then they should not have a problem with you, thus, it is exactly because you want to be Armenian for the sake of fitting in that makes me question your sincerity. See, if you never meet this girl and came here trying to learn about the culture, I wouldn’t care, but because you are going out with this girl, it makes the situation more complex. If I were to just let you come here and accept you as a my “equal” then in the long run the very same rules that contributed for my existence would be broken, which in time would mean the decline of my people. For the record, I will never share, help. or guide you through our history. I find it a insult to talk to you in Armenian because you are doing it for all the wrong reasons, so, again stop making it seem like you are this “innocent” black man being harassed by some “crazy” Armo because I am far from crazy. No, you should care because I may be one of the girls relative and if I found any of my relatives was doing what that girl is doing I would most likely stop talking to her. However, you are right, I have nothing to tell you in person. You should ask that girl how she would have felt if her ancestors were to bone Muslims in order to conceive her. No, you do make it seem like it is “noble” and make it seem like I am suppose to just give you the grand tour of our culture when you are not even Armenian. If you want to learn about Armenia read a book and if you want learn the language take classes, but do not come here expecting me to be “open minded” because like I said if 90% of the parents of the members were “open minded” they would be anything but Armenian today. NO, I am not a Nationalist, but rather am taking everything in the context it is given to me. Do you not agree that having 50% of your population being born in foreign countries a valid reason to get involved? Yes, of course you do, only a Down syndrome person would disagree with this and I am sure you are not a retard, so, knowing this would you not comment on anyone or at least make sure that the next generation understands how important it is to preserve your culture? Yes, I am sure you would make some effort to stop any assimilation that may take place because frankly a half Black Armenian is not Armenian anymore. This is why they do not call natives of the Americas “natives” anymore, but rather Meztisos, Mulattos, or anything else that refers to half breed. They become something new, which is why the decisions of the Diaspora should be taken with some weight. Now, do I give a shit what your girlfriend does with her life? NO, so, quiet assuming that I am this hardcore nationalist out to get you. I just feel the way I do, due to the fact that any alternative is suicide. Well, good for you, but that is not my point. If you are indeed “proud” and “interested” in your blackness you would find a black woman like how I was “proud” and “interested” in my ethnic background to the point of trying to maintain. Today, I could careless because it already seems like its going to shit, but if you really read what you said carefully you will notice that you are a hypocrite. Good, be a righteous person but be among your kind. I do not care what you do and how you do it, but do not do it with Armenians. I do not need to get into your face in order to prove my “tolerance”. Sorry, the moment I took a course on race is the day my views drastically changed. I use to not give a shit, but then I realized that race indeed matters even though biologically we may be the same. Blacks are not “dirt”, but when Bill Cosby says that you need to get act together it should send a message as to why people like me are trying their best to disassociate with your kind. I certainly am not doing all of "that", but if push came to shove they would ask me to go defend Armenia, unless, of course you feel you will go defend Armenia I suggest you do not regress this into a "my dick is bigger then yours" type of debate. See that exactly why I dislike you. The Armenian culture is not about learning the language or anything superficial like that it is about remaining Armenian at all costs. You have to have some nationalistic spirit whicih motivates you to remain Armenian. If Armenians have some problems, Africans, have tons of problems, which is why you should go feed the starving children of "African" or save the Sudenese or else what I do with my free time does not concern you. Yes, exactly I am not doing all that because of the fact that I see Armenians going in the wrong direction. I do not need to go “picket” for the genocide when in fact the youth is emulating a degenerative culture and lowering themselves on the social hierarchy. The first thing parents need to do is start making sure the kids understand they are not losers and that they are “white”. You know what makes me even more upset is that every Armenian I ask what they associate themselves in terms of race say they are anything but white, which is kind of ridiculous seeing as how Armenians are as white as white can be. I still have yet to see any Armenian look anything, but white, yes, there are circumstances but these apply to every white ethnicity. You have Armenians in Glendale thinking they are this hardcore black man when in fact emulating that culture places them below the black man or woman they are emulating. Armenian history, youth, and future is not the “genocide” or picketing for our rights, yes, that is important, but it is also important to understand things outside just getting degrees, certificates, and what not. I would rather Armenians thought of themselves as “white” rather then walk the world pretending they were “black”. It has gotten to a point where white people are pushing Armenians away and forcing us into the Jewish and Black camp. Now, for you this may seem “extreme”, but for me it signals the decline of my people. Eventually, this will lead to the marginalized group of people, who have no identity and are not a minority (In terms of race), but yet feel like the world is against them. This has happened in France, where Arabs now feel that they are not part of France, while at the same time not feeling Arabic. Stop resorting to “I have friends in the AYF, therefore, I must be Armenian or understand what is wrong with Armenians”, please stop, this is exactly why I have a problem with you. You act like you know the ins and outs of what it means to be Armenian, believe if you knew, you would understand my point of view. You have no idea what my people need to “progress” and it sure as hell is not racially diversifying our population. Furthermore, what we as Armenians need to progress is more and more Armenians like me that actually show some self-respect and self-worth. We do not need a “million man army” when the next generation will be marginalized group of people that are facing identity crisis. Just look at the families of many famous Armenians that married otars (I.E. William Saroyan, Allen Prost, Andrew Agassi, and Gary Kasphorov) they are anything but Armenian today and in fact I think Saroyan’s daughters are Jews, so, believe me you have no idea what my peoples problems are let alone understand what it will take to solve them. Like I said, your girlfriend shouldn’t go picket signs, but rather she should stop boning a black man. Hell, she wouldn’t exist today if her parents decided to bone Muslims, Russians, Turks, Kurds, Assyrians, Mongols, and etc… Lastly, the genocide issue is also going to shit. You have Armenians that feel that they can "reconcile" with Turks, which is why Armenians as a people are failure. You have Europeans trying to restrict immigration from Africa, while Armenians direcly support it, which is the kinds of stupid things Armenians that make me question our existence as a people. My point is that you are culturally deprived black man that has no other identity other then that of her girlfriends. No, I do not hate black people and in fact I rarely even communicate with them because I have nothing in common with them. Most of the time they want to belittle the “white man” by using phrases like “white boy”, so, no I do not hate black people, rather, they hate me because I am white. Your not that person, but that is what your culture portrays through the media. IF INDEED, you want to change your ways stop acting like victims. For instance, support Bill Cosby instead of “making excuses”. It is sad, you spend almost 300 years fighting for civil liberties, but yet today the only thing it amounted to is calling one another naggers and whores. Believe, those Armenians are the same self-hating type like your girlfriend. In fact what I am writing here today is to directly ridicule your culture to a point in which it seems unappealing anymore, but it will never work because Armenians like Seaphan, Nairi, Stormig, and the rest of the bunch are more adamant in accepting a black man as a Armenian rather then fixing the social stigmas that contribute to their decline as a people. I don’t cry and don’t even respond unless it is topics that send the wrong message to individuals. I could care less how many black men your girlfriend wants to bone, but the moment this is “deemed” normal is when I put my foot down. I am done with this thread and trying to convince anyone of anything, peace. It is a waste of time and I have other reallife obligations to fullfill other then trying to help a group of people that can not even help themselves.

Yeah, Ataturk was a Jew to and there is a article that exposes all this.

Yeah, when ever the argument ends up in your side you start banning people, editing threads, or issuing warnings. I am sick of this double standared. Bellthecat was the first person to attack AH when all he did was give his version of our origins. Instead, of you looking at the picture from the point of view of who is at fault you quickly attack the victim who only responded because he was being attacked. If this is not a double standard then I must be blind. Anyways, why bother, you will most likly edit my post or ban me, peace. --- Post edited for inappropriate language by Sip.

Again, here comes Gurgen trying to pick another fight. Just because I Have the balls to call a spade a spade does not mean I am "rebelling", but the fact that most Armenians have their tales between legs when it comes to issues like this goes to show that we have truly failed as a people. Furthermore, my family came here with nothing, but yet today as a first generation Armenian in this country I have succeeded where most African-Americans fail. If African-Americans get some benefits due to their skin, I, as a Armenain, get nothing, but yet I am not the one calling White Americans racist or all kinds of things. Please tell me what the *** does Amerikkka mean?

No, Armenians are white, so, do not try to tell me otherwise. Furthermore, 90% of the time it is African-Americans that complain about racism. Asians are as "different" as you, but yet, they are moving up on the worldstage. Hell, thirty years ago there was no Chinese millionares, but today there ARE LOTS OF CHINESE BILLIONARES! Lastly, stop making it seem like I am this racist person because frankly, everytime anyone complains of the actions of African-Americans the race card is always brought up, please, stop acting like victims. If anyone is the victim it is the poor white bracket that goes through the same poverity stricken life in order to make somthing of themselves, so, if there is any discrimination it is due to income.

Sev-mard, I am not the one claiming that Armenians are victims, but last time I checked it was you that was labeling everyone a "racists". Furthermore, yes, black people are responsible for the moral degeneration of the Armenian culture in the States due to the fact that it is their music that is morally degeneration society in general. It is not like I am actively seeking out "African-Americans" in a attempt to cling myself to a culture because I, as a Armenian, have a place where I belong in the world stage, but you on the other don't have that luxury. I still don't get what you are? Are you Caribbean? Black? American? White? Armenian? Mulatto? Mestizo? What are you? See you would have earned my respect if you did not try to learn Armenian and make it a point that even if you "marry" that Armenian girl her children will retain the Armenian culture because, frankly, it would be better for Armenians to go extinct then to be reduced to mulattos. Furthermore, I will never ever consider you, your children, and your grandchildren Armenian, so, let us stop these games of cat and mouse. I am not blaming my people’s problems on African-Americans so stop insinuating that, but rather I just do not like the fact that you think you can just prance in here and be a part of the Armenian because it takes more then that. I AM PRETTY SURE IF I WERE TO GO TO A AFRICAN FORUM AND TRY TO DO WHAT YOU ARE DOING I WOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN BANNED, so, stop putting up this innocent facade of how your intentions are "noble". You actions are the catalyst of the assimilation of my people, but seeing as to how you have no "culture" of your own, most likely, your children will gravitate towards the Armenian culture, but in no way will I, as a Armenian, accept them because Armenians are "white" not "black". Anyways, I am not being "racist" because most people in the world are racist, but because they want to be PC, which is due to the obvious social castration they will face, they will most likely bite their tongues. I, on the other hand, could give a flying *** what people think. If I was racist I would hate all African-Americans, but I don't. The only ones I have a problem with are African-Americans like you that try to infiltrate other cultures in a naive attempt to "move up" on the social hierarchy. If I was African I would be totally ashamed that you as an African are more adamant in learning about Armenia, rather then your own roots. Tell me Sev-Mard if you are so "Ethnocentric" and love "black culture" why the hell don't you marry an African-American? Why are you camping this board like you are this hardcore patriotic Armenian and please do not tell me otherwise because you already have the nerve to talk as if you are this experienced Armenian? DON"T DELETE THIS POST! HE PUSHED MY BOTTONS AND I WANT HIM TO RESPOND! IF ANYONE SHOULD BE BANNED IT SHOULD BE HIM! AND IF YOU ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BAN ME A FULL BLOODED ARMENIAN RATHER THEN SOME "AFRICAN" IT GOES TO SHOW THAT, INDEED, ARMENIANS LIKE THE MODERATORS ARE THE CAUSE OF OUR PROBLEMS. HE OPENED THE CAN OF WORMS AND NOW I WANT HIM TO DEAL WITH IT. IF ANYONE USES THE BANDWAGON APPROACH BE FOREWARNED THAT I WILL NOT BE SO “NICE”. PLEASE SEV-MARD RESPOND because this has gone behind just having a debate. It is already obvious I do not like you and what you represent, but do it in ways that do not insinuate racism because I AM NTO RACIST. This is the same kind of bullshit African-Americans pulled during the civil rights push in which they called white woman racist if they did not sleep with them, so, do not make this a question about race. I just do not like you and your actions. If I was to use your logic, then, I can label anyone a racist if they had preferences for the opposite sex, furthermore, there is no way in hell you can convince me that there is such a thing as a half Black Armenian because intellectuals have unanimously agreed that there is no such thing because You are either white, black, or a mulatto.

Gurgen, no one here stated that they are "nationalists" out to rid the world of the Turk, but most Armenians are VERY passive and DEEM what the Turks stole from them as nothing more as a "natural process". They have not self-respect and self-worth, which is why Armenians as a people are failures. Again, just take a look at this thread. AH, came here to "rally the troops", but yet most of the "troops" have lost any will to reclaim what is rightfully theirs. Now, if you are going to reply with asinine comments like "well, we do don't need this" I would like to remind that it was only ten years ago that your so-called "reconciled" Turkish buddies tried to bridge the gap between Nakhajavan and Azerbaijan, so, the very same "nationalists" that you try to ridicule are the only ones that have the foresight to actually see what we as a people will face. Furthermore, the fact that Turks have a blockade placed on Armenia does not make the sitaution better and in fact goes to show that either Armenians will go extinct or they will again have to fight for their statehood. As long as Turks or anyone that glorifies the Pan-Turkish ideology exist Armenians will always face a constant threat. Now, I am pretty sure this stuff does not register, so, I will stop here. You must be a joke, right? (laugh) Domino, you know what is a joke? The fact that Azerbaijan and Turkey directly block any progress that Armenia will attain, but yet you as a Armenian still are envisioning "world peace". A Azeri Officer butchering a Armenian officer in cold blood and no international press or warning being issued is a joke not what AH has to say. ARMENIANS ARE REALLY GULLIBLE AND STUPID IF THEY ACTUALLY THINK THEY CAN "CO-EXIST" WITH TURKS! The fact that even today they are undermining what ever we want to acheive as a people should speak volumes as to how ridiculous it is to actually think there can be "reconciliation". Edward, why shouldn't AH mistrust the moderators and the "hippie" branch of this forum? From the first day you have critisized his patriotism or tried to "label it" with negative co-notations. If anyone should be critisized its Bellthecat, Stormig, and the rest of the hippie opposition. Shit, just look what you have made me go through. It is like you want Armenians to be this loser group of people with no nationalistic spirit. Hell, if you really disagree with AH why the *** don't you just live underneath the jurisdiciton of Turks? I mean they are supposidly civil, right? Right, so why don't you put your money where your mouth is and next time walk up to a Turk and tell them that everything they have done is "forgiven"? Please, you people talk about "forgivness", but yet at the very end the Turk is the one living off your forefathers land, stealing your history, and laughing at the gullibliness of Armenians like you. Sorry, but if I am going to be a "loser" at least let it be on my terms because at least then I will have some self respect. No, Sasun, Turks have been just buying time waiting for the Hippie Armenians to "forgive" them at the expense of Armenians. Do not reverse the tables on individuals that still feel like they have some self respect and worth. AH, do not even try to reason with these people. They are worse then Turks and a catalyst for assimilation. IF Armenians want to put their future in the hands of this kind of "open minded" leadership then Armenians will always get the short end of the stick. Tk, let us not offend Turks I mean they do not deserve it, after all, all Turks have done is annex our ancestral land, drive us out, and deny this ever took place, so, we have no right to "claim" what is actually ours. Hell, from now on we should just accept Ataturk's Sun Theory since we will never get back what is rightfully ours. But on a serious note, yes Tk, there really is nothing Turkish in Turkey, white at the same time there really are no Armenians left in the world because Armenians originated from what is now Turkey. I am not even a hardcore nationalist and I find the way you attack and ridicule the very same Armenians that are out to help you very disturbing. This is exactly why through out time those Armenians that actually gave a dam got screwed for the ones that were hippies (I.E. Monte Melkonyan). Anyways, why bother, most of you will just write this off as another attack by a Dashnak terrorist or somthing. Like I say nationalism is what progesses a nation and any push to destroy the nationalistic spirit is the equavalent of suicide.

MX% don't you know? Armenians in Armenia and Iran still live in caves.

AH, if you are going to open up the Armenian Legion board let me know please. I was thinking about opening up a board like this, but I did not think it would catch on. However, if you are seriously going to open it up let me know please.

Exactly, which is what the debate is about. I am satsified with the first Armenian kingdom and if the first Armenian kingdom predates those of the European then they sure as hell better acknowledge it. This is the same double standard that is used when they omit mentioning Cilicia when they talk about the crusades. Most of the European codes of chivelry originated from Cilicia, but then again what would I know.

Ah, I read it and posted a reply, but the Nazi...opps...the moderators committed genocide.

London, I thought they renamed New "New Delhi"? You can only find the English in South Africa!

Gamavor, when have I stated that that I am this hard core nationalistic? I am not "asgasar", but at the same time I am not a hippie as well. My point is that you have members here that still can not define a what a Armenian is and yet you want them to "fight for Armenia"? The entire Diaspora is a joke and lastly, what the hell would my family react if I seriously wanted to "move back"? The Armenian youth is constantly ridiculed for even thinking about moving back and furthermore, nowadays, they even laugh at them for thinking about buying property in Armenia as well. Face it, Armenians, as a people, are the anti-thesis of nationalism and can be conquered with a smile.

Then you should be happy calling yourself a Canadian! Fine, if you do not like to learn about your own history then you should be satisfied with Ataturk's sun theory.