Nakharar

About i.e. unity it is just that: i.e. unity. You were a tad bit late for that and for the Thule society.

The Azeri guy looks pretty happy.

Whoever wrote that article or even contemplates such a thing is in serious need of help.

Yes that's what I meant. And not to forget the secular pillar of Western civilization, the Greek-Roman humanistic traditions.

The only thing we can get out of it is recognition. Recognition by the world community of the fact that the Armenian Genocide is irrefutable. How it will affect the Turks or others is not my concern.

Europe does not exist. Or a "European" identity. It is an illusion that some Eurocrats are desperate to sell. Some of us seem to forget that Europe was referred to as Christendom until the 100 Year wars. The only common denominator the continent has is Christianity or the remnants of Christian culture.

The bad thing about Ani and Akhtamar is that it deflects all attention from the rest of the Armenian monuments left in Turkey. Not that there are hardly any left now. The irony is that the two most symbolic Armenian architectural treasures have become a farce itself and are used as a ploy to hide the complete destruction of Armenian monuments.

Drop a brain in Bush's head http://www.imgag.com/product/full/ap/3067907/graphic1.swf

This doesn't make sense at all. So you say it is the message that is more important than the messenger?

How come we never hear these before? This is a massive bombshell in my opinion. I have heard before that the head of the main train station in Istanbul was an Armenian who actively oversaw the shipping of weapons, ammunition and gold bullions to Nationalist forces in Anatolia. This was their only lifeline and it is thanks to an Armenian that they won the war!? If this is also true they should thank these Armenians for being the founding fathers of the Turkish Republic. Why don't they unveil massive statues of them and print their faces on their currency. Are there any more "gems" like these? This really ruined my day.

Hmm... It reminds me of a song title. Oh wait, that was David Bowie wasn't it...

I won't be surprised if he lost interest in all things Armenian after this incident.

They are the only country to have succesfully overturned and dicated another treaty on their own terms. And that as a previously defeated party of WWI. We sure don't have to like it but the Turks were the masters of strategy in that period. The Turks played their cards excellently when they turned to the Soviet Union, which was embroiled in a civil war and surrounded by the armies of the Western powers, and convinced them that they were going to be a bulwark against the British and French in the south and the Caucasus. The Communist were probably overjoyed to have one country on their side in their desperate hour and happily gave them arms, ammunition and Kars & Ardahan on top of that, which was a liability for them anyways. The Turks were also cunning enough to play off one ally against the other and weaken their resolve. The Italians left and gave all their weapons to the Turks on the condition they should be used against the Greeks. The French made up with them after a ragtag band of Turks defeated them in Marash and Urfa, etc. These two were effectively won over as allies by the Turks. France was the second country to recognize Turkey as a sovereign country in 1921. Whoever still thinks that the French were and are our allies should better wake up and smell the coffee. They gave them Cilicia all for free. The Lausanne treaty was an overwhelming victory for the Turks much more than the crushing defeat of the Greek armies. A legally sanctified population exchange (which would be classified as ethnic cleansing today since all their immovables were left back as war compensation for the Turks) ended the 3000 year Greek presence in Anatolia and effectively sealed the fate of Armenians as a fait accompli.

Let's not deceive ourselves. The Germans would have never apologized for the holocaust if they didn't have a gun pointed at their heads. I'm living amongst them and I've never met a German who is truly sorry for what happened. You should see the Jew and holocaust jokes they are cracking in private. The Japanese apologize because they lost face. It is the humiliation of having been defeated that compells them to do this over and over again. They can't forgive themselves for having lost. Arziv put it correctly. Why should the Turks apologize when they have achieved all their war aims? I even hold those Turks suspect who name the Armenian genocide for what it is and offer an apology. Why apologize out of the blue? These people are probably cosmopolitan Turks who do not fit into Turkish society. They are doing it because as pink lemonade liberals they think it is the fashionable thing to do and by doing this they are going to be accepted as Europeans/Westerners. They can hold on to their illusions for what I care. We can deduce that apology comes from a position of weakness. Those who are in no position to negotiate and are begging for mercy will do so in no time.

Since there are no Armenians left I wonder who's next? But I don't think they have lost their senses yet.

This must be the Xth time they are apologizing. This is getting totally ridiculous. Who cares by the way? Let bygones be bygones. I wonder when and if the US and Britain will apologize for their war crimes.

Turks rethink idea of EU membership By Seth Rosen THE WASHINGTON TIMES August 14, 2005 ANKARA, Turkey -- Turks are becoming increasingly disillusioned with the European Union's stringent stipulations for membership and are rethinking entering a club they have yearned to join for 40 years. After the initial jubilation in December 2004 of securing an October date to begin accession talks, the need to make concessions on politically sensitive issues has engendered a tide of uncertainty in this expanding nation of 70 million. In a poll conducted in May, 63 percent of the Turks who responded said that they would like to see their country attain membership -- down from 75 percent in December. "The general enthusiasm about membership is eroding, and as the EU demands become clearer, the public will shy away more and more," said Hasan Unal, a professor of international relations at Bilkent University in Ankara. French and Greek officials called last week for Turkey to recognize the Greek Cypriot government in Cyprus or risk derailing its EU bid. This is part of a mounting list of demands from EU members that challenge Turkish identity and fundamental values, politicians and analysts here said. "Europeans don't fully understand the limits to patience on this side," said Suat Kiniklioglu, director of the Ankara office of the German Marshall Fund of the United States. "We're not yet counting on Plan B, but the euphoria is gone." Expectations were raised after the December decision, as Turks anticipated an immediate flood of foreign investment and a decrease in unemployment. A disappointment has permeated the nation as no real benefits have accrued to date, said Emine Sirin, an independent member of Parliament. Since December, many Turks have seen a significant change in the attitude of Europeans. As public opinion in most EU countries has crystallized against Turkish accession, European politicians have started taking a firmer stance as well. One of the central reasons cited for the rejection of the European constitution in France and the Netherlands in May was disgruntlement with past and future enlargement of the bloc, especially for predominantly Muslim Turkey. More worrying for Turkey is the German election scheduled for September, in which the Christian Democrats are favored to win. Their leader, Angela Merkel, is an adamant opponent of Turkish membership and instead advocates a "privileged partnership." French President Jacques Chirac has vowed to hold a separate referendum on Turkey's membership. This is part of an increasingly unjust treatment of Turkey's application, said Onur Oymen, the vice chairman of the Turkey-European Union Joint Parliamentary Committee, who points out that French citizens did not vote when Bulgaria, Croatia and Romania applied. Some European politicians, emphatically led by the French, have called on Turkey to recognize the mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks in 1915 as "genocide," a red line for all Turkish politicians. "People are disappointed with the double standards we are facing," said Hasan Ali Karasar, a researcher at Ankara's Center for Eurasian Strategic Studies. "What they ask for is against our tradition, culture, history and strategic location." Others are more cynical and think that the European Union is meddling in Turkey's internal affairs to dissuade it from continuing with negotiations. "What the EU is trying to do is frustrate us with unacceptable demands so that Turkey will say 'We give up and don't want to be a member,'?" said Mr. Unal, the professor at Bilkent University. "This way, they don't have to turn us down." A growing chorus of pundits in Turkey, frustrated with perceived EU interference in internal matters, is beginning to see a "privileged partnership" as an attractive measure. A special status would pull the country closer economically to the European Union but allow it to retain its sovereignty. It would also restore a sense of balance to Turks, who currently possess little leverage in their discussion with the European Union, Mr. Unal said

Hero aside, what puts a great stain on Monte is that he killed that Turkish man and his daughter in Athens. That's not the same thing as fighting on a battlefield in Artsakh. Just cold-blooded murder.

Harry Potter bewitches Gitmo prisoners Tale of boy wizard, Agatha Christie mysteries most popular books at prison Reuters Updated: 10:49 a.m. ET Aug. 10, 2005 WASHINGTON - Harry Potter has bewitched detainees at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, where tales of the young wizard and mysteries by Agatha Christie top the list of most popular books, a prison librarian said on Tuesday. “Harry Potter is a popular title among some of the detainee population,” said the librarian, a civilian contractor identified only as “Lorie” who works at the prison camp for foreign terrorism suspects at the U.S. naval base in Cuba. Lorie said the popularity of the best-selling Harry Potter books, which recount the adventures of a boy wizard as he triumphs over the powers of evil, was matched only by the prisoners' passion for Agatha Christie, some of whose murder mysteries are set in the Middle East. The Guantanamo Bay prison — which has come under fierce attack by human rights groups for its treatment and indefinite detention of prisoners — holds about 510 suspects from 40 countries. Most are from Afghanistan and Arab states. But even this remote prison has not escaped the world-wide frenzy over the escapades of Harry Potter and his friends at the Hogwarts School of Wizardry and Witchcraft. The sixth book in the series by author J.K. Rowling, which went on sale last month, is the fastest-selling book of all time. "We have Harry Potter in four languages, English, French, Farsi and Russian. We have it on order in Arabic. We do not have books 5 and 6 in the series, at this time. We have had several detainees read the series," Lorie said in a written response to questions from Reuters. “One prisoner has requested the movies,” she said. News of the series' popularity was first reported by The Washington Times on Monday. Asked what other books were among the prisoners' favorites, Lorie said, “We have 12 different Agatha Christie titles in Arabic that are very popular. Also 1001 Arabian Nights.” Overall, the library contains 1,200 books, 164 magazines and 40 videos. The prisoners do not need library privileges to read the Islamic holy book, the Koran, which is a “basic issue item” that each prisoner keeps in his cell, she said. The United States opened the Guantanamo prison in January 2002. A total of 242 detainees have been transferred out of the prison to other countries either to be freed or for continued detention, while approximately 510 remain at Guantanamo, according to the Pentagon. Many have been held for more than three years and only four have been charged. Human rights groups have assailed the United States for the indefinite detentions, and former Guantanamo prisoners have complained they were tortured, a charge the military denies. Some critics have urged the Bush administration to shut the camp down, saying its treatment of prisoners encourages hatred toward the West and bolsters support for militant violence. © Reuters 2005. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by caching, framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world.

You will die as a bachelor.

Will we take opportunity to reflect? By Marianna Torgovnick Posted August 5 2005 This Saturday, Americans will be reminded by the media of the 60th anniversary of the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima. Most likely, we will miss once again the true impact of this event, not just for the Japanese who experienced it, but also on us and on how we now live. It's not, of course, that we don't know that Americans flew the planes that killed at least 60,000 Japanese, most of them civilians, in Hiroshima and, three days later, 40,000 more in Nagasaki. It's not that Americans don't know that the United States remains the only nation ever to have used atomic weapons against civilian populations. It's that the events, unlike D-Day, say, or the liberation of the concentration camps, place Americans in ambiguous, unpleasant or even guilty roles. It seems natural that, as a culture, we prefer to look away. It seems natural that we prefer to emphasize events that reflect how we like to think of ourselves, that show a face we like to show to the world. So don't expect to see Aug. 6, 2005, marked by day-long ceremonies like June 6, 2005, the 60th anniversary of D-Day. Don't expect to see President Bush fly to Hiroshima to make a policy speech there in the way that he and other presidents, most notably Ronald Reagan, have flown to Normandy. The anniversary is likely to be mentioned, but quickly, almost as a kind of stealth event, under the radar screen and under the claim -- always controversial and often inflated -- that the bombings prevented an invasion and saved, and were designed to save, millions of American and Japanese lives. And yet I would claim that the bombings at Hiroshima and Nagasaki have marked us strongly as a nation ever since 1945 and continue to do so in many ways. The Cold War, the bogeyman of my childhood and most likely of yours, was driven by the fear that the Soviets would have nuclear weapons -- as they did by 1949 -- and would use them. In fact, some historians believe, and documents support the belief, that fear of the Soviets helped motivate the bombings, that our display of atomic power was designed as a warning to our likely future enemy as World War II came to an end. Since 2003, U.S. foreign policy has been driven by the need to prevent Iraq, Iran and North Korea -- the so-called axis of evil -- not just from deploying but also from developing nuclear weapons. That need proved specious in Iraq, but it ushered in a controversial and costly war. And developing nations could only learn from Iran and from North Korea that, although nuclear capacity draws strong and potent disapproval from the United States, it does tend to ward off the kind of invasion Iraq experienced, and its ongoing, messy aftermath. So, my fellow Americans, in this summer of World War II anniversaries, enjoy films like War of the Worlds, with their disruption of ordinary families and domestic life plot lines. Watch civilization disappear around American characters once again in what has become an annual summer ritual. But be aware that maybe, just maybe, the anniversaries that pass quickly each August are re-enacted, in disguised and distorted terms, in our annual summer disaster films. Remember, too, that Japan actually experienced the devastation of cities and the willful creation of a nightmare-world, and that the giants in the machines were, on that occasion, us. The impulse to think about the atomic bombings in terms of public and foreign policy issues like deterrence and disarmament -- a notable tendency of American writing about nuclear weapons -- evades the reality of what occurred in Japan 60 years ago. But that impulse may point to a useful truth for the present day. Bombs, like terrorists, are here, and likely to be here, to stay for our lifetimes. They are likely to condition our lives, but need not control them. Sixtieth-year anniversaries can be a time to revisit and rethink. Will we take it? Marianna Torgovnick is professor of English at Duke University and author of the new book "The War Complex: World War II in Our Time." (Chicago, 2005)

Someone, somewhere said to put ourselves in Truman's shoes. It is superfluous to put ourselves in Truman's shoes. Why not put ourselves in Talaat's shoes? He also did what he thought was best for his nation right? Nowadays the use of an a-bomb would be considered genocide and rightly so. As would the rape of Nanking, firebombing of Dresden and the annihilation of Japanese cities. Wars are fought like that and they still are, let's not kid ourselves. Grozny and Fallujah are a case in point. "Smart" bombs and "precision bombing" have put a sanitized and hallowed face on warfare these days. War has become a perfectly acceptable form of entertainment for American households now.

What goes around comes around.

I've read somewhere that the Turks had a Plan B in case Stalingrad fell to the Germans in 1942/43. And it sure wouldn't have had good consequences for Armenians living in Turkey or Armenia at that time. I can't remember the source and the names involved. Maybe Domino knows about this.

Dro and Nzhdeh's actions only validate what Armenians are best known for: no foresight. And the terrible consequences we usually pay for it. But it is pointless to blame them for this. The Turks are in no position to accuse us of collaborating with Nazis when they engaged in "active neutrality" They maintained relations with all the warring parties and traded with them. But it is also pointless to point fingers at them. In the end countries do what they think is best for their people. Mistakes included.