ED

you are absalutly right, dont you know everybody is Armenian? Isis, tutankamon, his father, and everyone in that dinasty no jan you are so right, dont let anybody else tell you otherwise

Sip what other problems? what defarance? i dont know what the hell you are talking about hmmmm nop cant think of any, care to enlighten us?

it's 1/64 Maral jan, must admit had a good lough about that one So far it's useful for a good laugh Maral, why don’t you post in a humor section next time, apparently he is not so famous "Armenian"

I want to share some thoughts of mine regarding religion and science, yet thru writhing-and expressing my thoughts were never my strongest points. However, I like to share the thoughts of someone who I became realizing "my sentiments exactly" so I'll spare you the agony of going true me sharing my versions, instead I like to present this mans writings. It is very well articulated Note. If you like, you can move this post to a proper tread, I couldn’t find one. Thx Here it is ******************************************************************** WHAT IS RELIGION? [Editor's note: The following is an except of Dr. Richard Sneed's presentation at the Harbinger symposium, "RELIGION & SCIENCE: The Best of Enemies - The Worst of Friends," on April 3.] by Richard Sneed The evening's program is designed to demonstrate the real polarity between religion and science, and why they need to keep talking to one another. I will speak about religion in general, as an historical and psychological phenomenon. I will suggest that religion is an ancient and respectable explanation for the world and our place in it, but that it is not the only one. I will suggest that religion does not have all the answers because it is by no means clear that it has asked all the questions, and asked them properly. I will suggest that the dispute between religion and science is very much like a sibling rivalry, and that the two are very similar in many ways. Finally, I will argue that it is time that both listen and learn from each other instead of taking infantile potshots at each other. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One way of describing religion is that is was humankind's earliest attempt to try to understand the world and our place in it. Early people clearly saw a bewildering, dangerous, and chaotic world and through a mixture of fear, awe, curiosity, and instinct for survival, looked for ways to explain and comprehend their surroundings. It is natural to fear what is not understood, so by trying to understand the world better, it would be feared less. The search for understanding was undertaken by observing, theorizing, observing some more, and offering tentative explanations. Whatever was beyond our imagination was quite naturally explained as being the work of something beyond us. Humankind has changed but little, for we still use this strategy, and apply it to every aspect of our lives; we are always seeking to know. Notice I have not spoken about faith. Religion is not the same thing as faith: faith has many definitions. Tonight, I suggest that faith is both. Faith can be defined as (1) the impulse to believe in the absence of some evidence or explanation, and (2) the act of accepting such evidence or explanation because it seems reasonable. Faith is a rational activity: it requires thought for accepting and understanding. I want to distinguish between the act of believing in something and that of which one believes. My believing in something does not make it true, and is different from whether or not it is actually true. A fact is a fact is a fact; my belief in its truth has nothing whatsoever to do with its actual truth. It has been said that the world is made up of facts, not things. One way of understanding this is to realize the world is what we individually and collectively know of it. No one that I know of claims to know all there is to know about the world. It is probably impossible. I regard that as a good thing; I would hate to know all that there is to know. The human mind is restless and imaginative. We humans are capable of amazingly creative acts, and our compulsion to know, to learn, to explain, and to understand is what gave rise to much of human society. Historically, religion was the explanation for the world, for the cause and effect activity in the world. To our curious minds, there simply had to have an explanation for every natural phenomenon. If it was beyond us, and the event still happens, its cause must be beyond us. It is a short step to supernatural agency. As events became more complex, the explanations required much study and training. Religion, as a discipline, became the systemic attempt to provide explanations for the way the world works. This is also a good definition of science, and there is a good reason for it: Science and religion, as intellectual activities, are not as distinct as we may think. The academic pigeonholing of religion and science is a very recent event. It was not until the late middle ages that science was studied by itself; prior to this, science, was called natural philosophy, and prior to that it was a branch of theology. Only in the last couple of centuries was it possible to "major" as it were in, say, chemistry. Before this, the science were called "speculative physics," that is the study of the natural world. Religion is a science in a sense, as it is a speculative enterprise. It has rules, procedures, methodologies. They have changed in form but the structure remains. Most of the finest scientists of history have been adherents of one religion or another, for most sensed intuitively that science is fallible because scientists are fallible, and further that science has limits. So I would argue does religion. The complexity of both religion and science makes it impossible to master both. But, that does not mean that they are mutually exclusive. Indeed, I think that they should not be because they cannot be. I have suggested that methodologically, religion is a science. I also claim that, in some ways, science is a kind of religion. It has saints such as Aristotle, Galileo, Newton, and Einstein. It has a priesthood, the senior scientists. It has doctrinal authorities, the Nobel laureates. It has prophets like Leonardo da Vinci and Thomas Edison. It has heretics, the person who transplanted monkey heads. Science has sacred texts. It has rites and rituals: study, research, internships. It has its PR types such as Carl Sagan. Both have fundamentalists, literalist, evangelicals, and mainstreams. This is partly why encounters between them cause so much fire to fly: It is not because they are so different but because they are much alike. A fundamental tenet of science is that acceptance of some claim must be properly tied to the evidence. If accepting the truth of the evidence is distinct from his actual truth, then science is a belief system, and an imperfect one at that. What I am suggesting is that controversies between religion and science are so intense because they are family squabbles. And like most sibling rivalries, what is sought is not accommodation and compromise but competitive advantage. Most human disputes are like this: The Israelis and the Palestinians don't want peace, they want advantage. They don't talk to each other but yell at each other. Neither science nor religion is perfect because they are human artifacts, and we are imperfect. Both can make foolish mistakes. In religion there was The Inquisition; in science, there was phrenology. It is true that the bloodiest wars in our history were religious in some fashion , but priests don't forge swords, and monks don't develop weapons. Both religion and science might be well advised to pause from their polemics, to remove the logs from their own eyes before pointing out the splinters in each other's. What I am suggesting is that instead of condemning each other for being narrow-minded and dogmatic -- which can be true of both -- they should listen, for once, and learn. You can learn nothing from someone else unless you listen to them. What is needed is humility and courtesy. Science is a bit better at this: listen to the hedging of NASA scientists in explaining the potential of life on Mars. It is a mistake for religion to score science; it is equally a mistake for science to score religion. Scientific explanations need not diminish the awesomeness of the natural world. Nor should religion postulate a God behind it all. It is useful to distinguish between religion and science, between faith and fact, but do not divide them. The worse "sin" we can commit is not to listen to each other at all.

But Satanism is also classified as a religion and it’s protected by the constitution of USA. Sasun, do you think Satanist have a right to practice there religion under the constitution? And what is the difference between those and Jerry FaRTwell? (So called Evangelical noe-zionist-cons)! These last ones, so called “Christians” look far more dangerous then Satan! <_<

There is a positive side to that, thus you will have chance to see GOD sooner rather then later acourding to some <_<

Domino, does ecomomics has anything to do with fadixian universe by any chance?

Hovsep did you know he was in Isreal before that? Do you think he will visit Armenia?

Sip, Vava, have you heard about this ? WORST VIRUS EVER ---CNN ANNOUNCED A new virus has just been discovered that has been classified by Microsoft as the most destructive ever. This virus was discovered yesterday afternoon by McAfee and no vaccine has yet been developed. This virus simply destroys Sector Zero from the hard disk, where vital information for its functioning are stored. This virus acts in the foll owing manner: It sends itself automatically to all contacts on your list with the title "A Card for You". As soon as the supposed virtual card is opened the computer freezes so that the user has to reboot. When the ctrl+alt+del keys or the reset button are pressed, the virus destroys Sector Zero, thus permanently destroying the hard disk. Yesterday in just a few hours this virus caused panic in New York, according to news broadcast by CNN. This alert was received by an employee of Microsoft itself. So don't open any mails with subject: "A Virtual Card for You." As soon as you get the mail, delete it!! Even if you know the sender !!!

Yerevanian jan, welcome to Hyeforum, enjoy your stay! P.s Could you change the color of your fonts from red to black please? Thank you and welcome

Trade with Turkey has been going on in black market bases, and high officials in both sides are very well aware of the fact and also are/were profiting from that fact, example, Textile, most raw materials Armenia is contorolled by Turks (among many such items). Move is more political rather then Economic. Recent developments regarding EU influenced Turkey’s decision, but most resent EU’s stand (Turkey Is not ready to be accepted into EU) may change Turkey’s stand, I guess its wait and see for near future developments.

dont worry Vava jan I'll be Montreal next mount, you'll get your turn By the way I know a great place in town

Madarmo, <_< Let me enlighten you and correct you we Armenians are NOT a clan, but an ethnic group. Definition of Ethnic Group The term ethnic means of or pertaining to a group of people recognized as a class on the basis of certain distinctive characteristics such as religion, language, ancestry, culture or national origin. P.s, Now go back and clean up your posts from personal remarks!

But you keep telling me that where you are going to take me they do not have beer or wine. BTW: What was that score you got on that flirt test? Now hold on Guys, as I recall Ev and I have a oyster bet we have to resolve first so be patiant Ev jan did we set the date for that yet?

Yes I couldn’t believe at first, we (me and my son) saw it in the parking lot across from Hobart st, it was a big attraction, sharp looking and very well preserved

How does breaking the law and realized it makes one a Hypocrite? Do you know the definition of the word? If not let me know or open up a dictionary, furthermore, your assumption of me being against "my Tribe"? I never knew we are a tribe, if we are a tribe then you must be the perfect specimen to identify with. You’re childish well I hate to take all that money out of your hands you may need it for reconstructive surgery, about the humor part see if you can dig this. I love humor by the way Ay Tgha ho du fizkulturnik ches?

HOB I took the libarty of traslaiting you post. I hope you dont mind MUGAM In STRASBOURG Division in numbers of the delegation OF THE RA in Strasbourg was, certainly, it was predetermined. Even in the beginning of year the minister ID of Ra Vardan Of oskanyan supported the expediency of the revision of the composition of the delegation of Armenia in THE PASS. Answering to questions of "hot line" "GA", he on this occasion stated: "I think that I have right to its own opinion. Separate the members of our delegation allow explicit speculations for themselves and simply do not know how to separate the sphere of national interests from the sphere of internal contradictions. In THE PASS not it was and there is not one another delegation, which sometimes contributed to the stiffening of the report, which relates to its own country, and itself would stimulate this process. Division in numbers of Armenian delegation is especially dangerous in this sud'bonosnoye time. Matter, by such by means, in us themselves and even not in Azerbaijan ". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Representatives Armenian oppositions in THE PASS Of shavarsh Of kocharyan and Artashes Of gegamyan today operate in Strasbourg in complete agreement with the Azerbaijan parliamentarians. In spite of the information Artashesa Gegamyana, extended in the oppositional OF THE MEDIA, the members of the delegation of Azerbaijan completely supported the initiative "Armenian champions for democracy " on conducting of urgent hearings through Armenia and together with them Lille mud to the policy of official Yerevan. In to this connection the leader of group Tigran torosyan in turn stated: "by all it is known, who here wanders into obnimku with the Azerbaijan deputies and who, as past time, he votes into unison with the Azerbaijanians. People the wisdom it says: through 40 days everyone will explain. In this case it is not necessary 40 days. Through four days in Armenia everything learn about everything ". It is remarkable, that used "intra-Armenian with disorder "Azerbaijan parliamentarians in THE PASS began propagation among the medium the delegates of assembly" document about vandalizme of Armenians ". As stated "525-1 to newspaper" the member of the permanent delegation AR of rafayel Of guseynov, in the "document", in particular, it is said: "Azerbaijan culture carried enormous loss as a result of occupying by Armenia the Azerbaijan earth. In the result intensive the destruction it arose the danger final the loss of historico- architectural appearance Shushi. In occupied Azerbaijan regions it is destroyed, is plundered and are ransacked on the whole more than 1000 monuments of culture ".In of this connection it is necessary to note that the representatives of "our" opposition in no way reacted to this initiative, since they were occupied "where with the more important" matters. Are curious those frankly deceitful statements and the cynical "forecasts", which under the conditions of the separated actions of Armenian delegation make possible for themselves to meek make Azerbaijanians, in particular the same Of guseynov: "thus far Armenians will not forego the habit to declare by ancient Armenian music any pleased by them melody, but the earth, on which lived 50-100 years, age-old Armenian, but the main thing - to nurture delirious dream about "Armenia from the sea to the sea", to those times the process of their internal rotting and national decomposition will be increasingly more accelerated. Thus that we do not simply protect our culture, but also give to understand to our neighbors that by similar actions they themselves draw to the precipice ". Thus Armenian oppositionists dance under that pleased by them to mugam and they call his "their". On the threshold of the Budapest process it is symptomatic the fact of the sharp appearance against Armenia of the member of Hungarian delegation in THE PASS of Matthias's Yorzhi: "we they obtained the information from the different sources, and the obtained information us worried. We they are assured that a question of Armenia must be discussed quickly ". Another the representative Hungary, the leader liberal-democratic the group of deputies PASS N. B"erzi it called press conference, on which directly he stated: "in Armenia there is no freedom of word and press, are disrupted the rights of man. Situation in this country it left from under the control, and this can become the reason for serious shakings in entire region ". Chance or regularity, what precisely Hungarian of policy today do speak against the authorities of Armenia? Term "commissions for monitoring" Of erzhi Of yaskerniya at present already it works at the report on Armenia. In the appearance British the radically disposed deputy from the liberal group was sounded proposal about the exception of Armenia and Azerbaijan from the council of Europe. Reaction Shavarsha Kocharyana to this proposal was simple shameful: "why you punish peoples, indeed responsibility for disturbances bear authorities. Exception THE RA from SE is profitable everything to the same "top", which will already attempt to establish the uncontrollable feudal orders in the country. Opposition it will be against such radical changes ". http://www.golos.am/2000/april_ 2004/29/index_april29.html

1. Write in Russian 2. Inform who plays duduk very good 3. Give us the address of a good master with musical instruments

That’s not what you replied! but, I see you are young, and in some extent I’m proud of you, yet your views and thoughts are mixed and need further polishing, but I do sincerely admire your passion, if you are not careful stating such a comments among odars (such as preserving ones heritage and identity and presenting Armenian Power and Armenians are #1 thing), it can very well backlash at you, and portray you as a bigot! What I was saying is we as Armenians do not need such characters as Mosjan posted, on the contrary we have so much other then that to present our self’s with. Many times I have been mistaken for Iranian or Albanian because Armenian sounded like those, yet I didn’t mock them, instead I gladly explained who we are, where do we come from, and in the end I think we as ARMENIANS gained from that experience just a little bit, do you understand what is it I'm saying? I hope you do, why? Because you are Armenian MY friend, I do care genuinely for my people, that’s the list of my contributions to "myself"-Armenia and Armenians!

Vigil, I sure heck don’t understand what you’re trying say, do you?

Vigil your quoting me but your not paying attantion to the content, as I said, and again, I statted nothing that says anything BAD about Armenians, as I said it takes thousend to build up a good name and respect, but it takes few rats to distroy them, and it goes for ALL NATIONALITES, ETNIC GROUPS! I cant be anymore clear than what I allready said

Vigil, I see your shallow observation of my comments, and who the hell are you to conclude that I have stubbed or stubbing Armenian community or Armenians? Try another approach, and becerful with your vocabulary selection, you have no idea of who I'm, and what are my contributions to this day to Armenian community and to Armenia. I stated baisic fact! If you read my comment carefully you would have realised it was not addressed to Armenians but one in particular, further more it wasn’t to you! Hence your immature remarks are baseless and tasteless. You want to be respected and accepted? Try another approach! Here, or in life, no one is arguing one should preserve its identity, but the question is how? Now answer me that, "Armenian power and Armenians are #1" mentality is way out of my "league" you picked the wrong person to argue with!!

Perhaps there is a light at the end of the tunnel, finally, instead of another train. By EMMANUEL GEORGES-PICOT, Associated Press Writer PARIS - Turkey's aspirations to be the first Muslim-majority member of the European Union (news - web sites) took a hit Thursday when French President Jacques Chirac said Ankara likely will not meet the bloc's conditions for another 10-15 years. AP Poto Speaking at his first full-fledged news conference in six years, Chirac also said the upcoming transfer of power in Iraq (news - web sites) must be "unambiguous" and the U.S.-led occupation authorities must cede complete control to an Iraqi administration. The French president said Turkey needed to improve its human rights record and reform its justice system before being considered for EU membership. "Is Turkey's entry possible today? I say 'No,'" he said. But Turkey could become a member "in the perspective of 10 to 15 years," Chirac said. "My conviction is that it is in the long term." Turkey, located at the crossroads of Europe and Asia and a part of NATO (news - web sites) since 1952, is hoping to begin talks next year on joining the EU. Ten new members are joining the 15-nation union on Saturday. A Turkish Foreign Ministry official said on condition of anonymity that Turkey accepted Chirac's comments but still hoped the EU would open membership talks in 2005. "Negotiations are one thing, and membership is another," the official said. "Chirac was speaking about the long term. There's nothing new about what he said." Chirac's news conference came weeks after Foreign Minister Michel Barnier told parliament that France would oppose Turkey's entry. Predominantly Muslim Turkey has carried out sweeping reforms in the last two years, abolishing the death penalty and granting greater cultural rights to its long-oppressed Kurdish minority. The European Commission (news - web sites) in November noted Turkey's "significant progress" in meeting the EU's conditions, but said more needed to be done. In the run-up to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Chirac was one of the most outspoken voices against the war. Now, he and other leaders are pushing for Iraq to be granted full sovereignty when the coalition hands over power on June 30. "What would be disastrous is a compromise solution founded on ambiguity," Chirac said. U.S. officials have suggested Iraq will be granted only limited sovereignty, with the coalition maintaining control of security. "Today, it is urgent to give the Iraqis back their sovereignty," he said. "The problem is how." Any real transfer of power, Chirac said, must be overseen by the United Nations (news - web sites). Chirac also said it was too early to decide which method France would use to decide on a proposed European constitution. Nations can either hold referendums or allow their parliaments to vote. EU foreign ministers agreed Monday to resume negotiations on the continent's first constitution. The charter is to be finalized at a June 17-18 EU summit, after which member states will have to ratify or reject it. Talks over the constitution, which aims to streamline decision-making in the expanded bloc, collapsed in December when Spain and Poland rejected a proposed new voting system because they believed it gave too much power to the EU's biggest countries. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...rance_turkey_eu

It has nothing to do with your Armenian heritage and everything to do of your behavior, in 24 years I have lived in los Angeles aria I never experienced single incident of discrimination or issues such as you mention it, we must realize that we are part of the community and obey the law just like everyone else regardless of our ethnicity. There are always narrow mined individuals in both sides, in any given place you go to.

Guys guys lets keep the personal insult creativeness out, shell we?