ED

Stormig can you expend on, "the way things are"? Opening of the border one must realize is always beneficial to sides involved and beyond. However, in the case of Armenia-Turkey border if I’m not mistaking here, Turkey is the one who always put front preconditions and terms. ROA’s official stand, as far as border issue is concerned, had stated many times in the past, is ready to open the border with no preconditions or terms, and there was a never an issue regarding the Genocide. And I don’t believe Armenia ever set a precondition regarding Cypress.

շնորհավոր տարեդարցտ Հրեշտակ ջան, մաղթում եմ ամենայն բարիք ու փայլուն ապագա

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insi...av072104.shtml#

And you my little spoiled friend, failed basic manners grade when growing up, maybe it was not thought nor are you familiar with it. What the hell is this supposs to mean? Discussions are conducted, and views are exchanged in civil manner, take caution with your tone and the way you respond, don’t get personal with me or with any other member of this forum.

Azat are you going to let him get away with this? speaking of xorovats, as my grill is ready and as rule Mondays are always xorovats day in our house, the "spirits" of xorovats are calling me which leaves you with outmost sutisfaction, speritualy speaking, oh and nice cold beer with it also.

Vigil cut your puppy play and behave accordingly, edit your post, enough of your childish presentations of your arguments, what would it take for you to understand you can’t use that kind of fonts? <_< now dont test my patiants I have none to spare in this heat edit it!!

The question I like to ask is, in what he thinks we should succeed and what the heck does WE mean, we as a Nation? Or WE as his cronies?? Azat Jan, my apologies, uncharacteristic of me I did not post the URL But that’s just only fraction of the reasons he shouldn’t be reelected, look at it this way, USA never been so alienated thru out of her history. One very good reason he shouldn’t come back is when asked "who had made the most influence in your life? Replied Bush "Jesus Christ" now what kind of a dialog is this for the politician, he acting like a crusader rather then someone who represents a country, arrogance is in all level of his administration as well as among those who support this president. I'm a liberal in my views, but my stand plays no role in evaluation Bush and this shameful administration, even Carter will be ahead in polls if conducted today as a comparison.

Azat why 100? how about 124 reasons? why Bush must go 1. Cut the Veteran’s Administration budget by $25 billion as he began his war in Iraq. 2. Reneged on a promise to increase funding for education and failed to fund the so-called “No Child Left Behind” Act. 3. Promised $15 billion in AIDS funding for Africa in 2003 State of the Union Address then – oops – left it out of the budget submitted a few weeks later. 4. In May 2001, Bush gave $43 Million to the Taliban. 5. Repealed the Alternative Minimum Tax for corporations, which was enacted in 1987, and REFUNDED all taxes paid, by corporations under the AMT since its inception. 6. Won’t reveal who participated in Cheney’s energy policy meetings. [Enron, Enron and Enron???] 7. Opposed affirmative action at Michigan State in the Supreme Court case. 8. Charles Pickering, Pricilla Owens, Miguel Estrada. Packing the courts with extremists. 9. Appointed Elliott Abrams, who was convicted during Reagan administration in Iran-Contra, to the National Security Council. 10. Sealed documents from the Reagan and Bush administrations that would have revealed illegal dealings in Iran-Contra. 11. Cut federal spending on libraries by $39 million. 12. Cut $35 million in funding for doctors to get advanced pediatric training. 13. Cut by 50% funding for research into renewable energy sources. 14. Revoked rules that reduced the acceptable levels of arsenic in drinking water. 15. Blocked rules that would require federal agencies to offer bilingual assistance to non-English speaking persons. This, from a candidate who would readily fire-up his Spanish-speaking skills in front of would-be Hispanic voters. 16. Proposed to eliminate new marine protections for the Channel Islands and the coral reefs of northwest Hawaii (San Francisco Chronicle, April 6, 2001). 17. Cut funding by 28% for research into cleaner, more efficient cars and trucks. 18. Suspended rules that would have strengthened the government's ability to deny contracts to companies that violated workplace safety, environmental and other federal laws. 19. OK'd Interior Department appointee Gale Norton to send out letters to state officials soliciting suggestions for opening up national monuments for oil and gas drilling, coal mining, and foresting. 20. Appointed John Negroponte - an un-indicted high-level Iran Contra figure to the post of United Nations Ambassador. 21. Abandoned a campaign pledge to invest $100 million for rain forest conservation. 22. Reduced by 86% the Community Access Program for public hospitals, clinics and providers of care for people without insurance. 23. Rescinded a proposal to increase public access to information about the potential consequences resulting from chemical plant accidents. 24. Suspended rules that would require hard rock miners to clean up sites on Western public lands. 25. Cut $60 million from a Boy's and Girl's Clubs of America program for public housing. 26. Proposed to eliminate a federal program, designed and successfully used in Seattle, to help communities prepare for natural disasters. 27. Pulled out of the 1997 Kyoto Treaty global warming agreement. 28. Cut $200 million of work force training for dislocated workers. 29. Eliminated funding for the Wetlands Reserve Program, which encourages farmers to maintain wetlands habitat on their property. 30. Cut program to provide childcare to low-income families as they move from welfare to work. 31. Cut a program that provided prescription contraceptive coverage to federal employees (though it still pays for sorryyyyy). 32. Cut $700 million in capital funds for repairs in public housing. 33. Appointed Otto Reich - an un-indicted high-level Iran Contra figure - to Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs. 34. Cut Environmental Protection Agency budget by $500 million. 35. Proposed to curtail the ability of groups to sue in order to get an animal placed on the Endangered Species List. 36. Rescinded the rule that mandated increased energy-saving efficiency regulations for central air conditioners and heat pumps. 37. Repealed workplace ergonomic rules designed to improve worker health and safety. 38. Abandoned campaign pledge to regulate carbon dioxide, the waste gas that contributes to global warming. 39. Banned federal aid to international family planning programs that offer abortion counseling with other independent funds. 40. Closed White House Office for Women's Health Initiatives and Outreach. 41. Nominated David Lauriski - ex-mining company executive - to post of Assistant Secretary of Labor for Mine Safety and Health. 42. OK'd Interior Secretary Gale Norton to go forth with a controversial plan to auction oil and gas development tracts off the coast of eastern Florida. 43. Announced intention to open up Montana's Lewis and Clark National Forest to oil and drilling. 44. Proposes to re-draw boundaries of nation's monuments, which would technically allow oil and gas drilling "outside" of national monuments. 45. Gutted White House AIDS Office. 46. Renegotiating free trade agreement with Jordan to eliminate worker’s rights and safeguards for the environment. 47. Will no longer seek guidance from The American Bar Association in recommendations for the federal judiciary appointments. 48. Appointed recycling foe Lynn Scarlett as Undersecretary of the Interior. 49. Took steps to abolish the White House Council on Environmental Quality. 50. Cut the Community Oriented Policing Services program. 51. Allowed Interior Secretary Gale Norton to shelve citizen-led grizzly bear re-introduction plan scheduled for Idaho and Montana wilderness. 52. Continues to hold up federal funding for stem cell research projects. 53. Makes sure convicted misdemeanor drug users cannot get financial aid for college, though convicted murderers can. 54. Refused to fund continued cleanup of uranium-slag heap in Utah. 55. Refused to fund continued litigation of the government's tobacco company lawsuit. 56. Proposed a $2 trillion tax cut, of which 43% will go to the wealthiest 1% of Americans. 57. Signed a bill making it harder for poor and middle-class Americans to file for bankruptcy, even in the case of daunting medical bills. 58. Appointed a Vice President quoted as saying "If you want to do something about carbon dioxide emissions, then you ought to build nuclear power plants." (Vice President %@!#$& Cheney on "Meet the Press.") 59. Appointed Diana "There is no gender gap in pay" Roth to the Council of Economic Advisers. (Boston Globe, March 28, 2001.) 60. Appointed Kay Cole James - an opponent of affirmative action - to direct the Office of Personnel Management. 61. Cut $15.7 million earmarked for states to investigate cases of child abuse and neglect. 62. Helped kill a law designed to make it tougher for teenagers to get credit cards. 63. Proposed elimination of the "Reading is Fundamental" program that gives free books to poor children. 64. Is pushing for development of small nuclear arm to attack deeply buried targets and weapons, which would violate the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. 65. Proposes to nominate Jeffrey Sutton - attorney responsible for the recent case weakening the Americans with Disabilities Act - to federal appeals court judgeship. 66. Proposes to reverse regulation protecting 60 million acres of national forest from logging and road building. 67. Eliminated funding for the "We the People" education program, which taught School children about the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and citizenship. 68. Appointed John Bolton - who opposes nonproliferation treaties and the U.N. - to Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security. 69. Nominated Linda Fisher - an executive with Monsanto - for the number-two job at the Environmental Protection Agency. 70. Nominated Michael McConnell - leading critic of the separation of church and state - to a federal judgeship. 71. Nominated Terrence Boyle - ardent opponent of civil rights - to a federal judgeship. 72. Canceled 2004 deadline for automakers to develop prototype high mileage cars. 73. Nominated Harvey Pitts - lawyer for teen sex video distributor - to head SEC. 74. Nominated John Walters - strong opponent of prison drug treatment programs - for Drug Czar. (Washington Post, May 16, 2001.) 75. Nominated J. Steven Giles - an oil and coal lobbyist - for Deputy Secretary of the Interior. 76. Nominated Bennett Raley - who advocates repealing the Endangered Species Act - for Assistant Secretary for Water and Science. 77. Is seeking the dismissal of class-action lawsuit filed in the U.S. against Japan by Asian women forced to work as sex slaves during WWII. 78. Earmarked $4 million in new federal grant money for HIV and drug abuse prevention programs to go only to religious groups and not secular equivalents. 79. Reduced by 40% the Low Income Home Assistance Program for low-income individuals who need assistance paying energy bills. 80. Nominated Ted Olson - who has repeatedly lied about his involvement with the Scaiffe-funded "Arkansas Project" to bring down Bill Clinton - for Solicitor General. 81. Proposes to ease permit process - including environmental considerations - for refinery, nuclear and hydroelectric dam construction. (Washington Post, May 18, 2001.) 82. Proposes to give government the authority to take private property through eminent domain for power lines. 83. Proposes that $1.2 billion in funding for alternative renewable energy come from selling oil and gas lease tracts in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve. 84. Appoints Army Secretary Thomas White who is being investigated for selling Enron stock just before Enron posted losses. White was a former Enron executive who is alleged to have dumped his stock after being contacted by an Enron official. 85. Took 3 months of vacation of first 9 months in office as president. 86. Had absolutely no concern about terrorism before 9-11. 87. Many of his big campaign supporters are crooks who doctored their books in order to screw investors. 88. Wants to fulfill a personal vendetta against Hussein causing a huge and costly war with destabilization of the Middle East and Russia and china siding with the Arabs. 89. Wants to kill minimum wage and its enforcement so that people work at slave wages for his corporate supporters. 90. Wants to take away benefits from the elderly and children in order to compensate for giant tax cuts for super rich. 91. Gave the Taliban 38 million in may, 2001 so that they would allow pipelines for his buddies at Enron. 92. Wants to create the most polluted country on earth by eliminating anti-pollution laws so that his super rich factory owner supporters can get richer. 93. Exploiting 911 families to justify NMD/SDI. Nuclear deterrence is still working against China, Pakistan's Islamic dictatorship, and all 7 Rogue states. It worked in Gulf War 1 against Saddam; has worked since 1991 and will continue to work indefinitely just like N. Korea since 1953. 94. Pushed for USA Patriot Act. 95. Creation of Deptartment of Homeland Security. During Hitler's reign, Germany was protected by the HSA, the Reichshauptsicherheitamt, which roughly translates into "Main Office of Homeland Security." 96. Exploited 911 families' pain & suffering in order to justify naked aggression against Saddam's conventional and pathetic military forces even though they're still contained within Iraq. Gulf War2 = Pearl Harbor2 = Schlieffen Plan2 = Barbarossa2. 97. Bush tried to appoint Henry Kissinger as head of the September 11 commission. 98. Used Homeland Security Act to protect Eli Lilly from autism suits. 99. Gave $95 million to North Korea for nuclear program and waived the part of the agreement that required inspections to ensure no weapons grade plutonium had been hidden away. 100. Abrogated the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty while squandering billions in chasing the chimera of national missile defense. 101. Undermined the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty while expressing support for testing new nuclear weapons and refusing to rule out a nuclear first strike against non-nuclear nations. 102. Derailed negotiations to improve international inspection systems to monitor and prevent the production of biological and chemical weapons. 103. Repudiated an international scientific consensus and withdrawn from global efforts to curb global warming. 104. Renounced the U.S. signature on the treaty to create an International Criminal Court and campaigned aggressively to exempt all U.S. personnel from its jurisdiction, even threatening to veto UN peacekeeping operations if it does not get its way. 105. Dismissed the need for broad international cooperation in its war on terrorism, preferring to act alone or with selected allies. 106. Treated human rights as an obstacle to rather than an essential component of civic security at home and abroad. 107. Undermined the Oslo peace process, condoned the Israeli reoccupation of Palestinian territory, and rejected UN Security Council resolutions supported by previous administrations that provide a framework for conflict resolution containing strict security guarantees for both Israel and the Palestinians. 108. Slighted global efforts to mobilize an offensive against the spread of AIDS, instead privileging the financial interests of pharmaceutical companies over the need for affordable life-saving medicines. 109. Suspended U.S. support for the UN's family planning programs and balked at supporting the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW). 110. Continued to pursue a global economic agenda that is of, by, and for transnational corporations and blocked efforts to build international rules to enforce labor and consumer rights and environmental protections. 111. Bush team prevented thousands of eligible voters in Florida from voting. That is how the elections were stolen. 112. Bush deceives Americans about the terrorists’ motives to shield U.S. foreign policies from public scrutiny; his first concern is the special interests he serves. 113. Cynically and callously exploiting "terrorism," most of all with regard to the memory of those killed or injured in the September 11 attacks, as well as concern for their loved ones, as a means of (1) justifying his and his administration's attacks on the Constitution and on Americans' most basic rights and (2) diverting public attention from his absolute incompetence--and utter lack of concern--over the very real economic and financial terrorism being visited upon millions of middle-class, working-class, and poor Americans while padding the pockets of corporations and the rich! 114. Former President Clinton requested numerous meetings with George W following the election to discuss making terrorist activities a priority of the new administration. Finally a staff underling rudely gave Clinton a hearing. The information, which was for the President’s ears, only was never passed on. 115. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops. 116. Went AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard for 18 months making him ineligible to be commander-in-chief. 117. Allowed looting to continue in Baghdad and around Iraq while guarding only the oil ministry. 118. Because over 4000 innocent civilians were murdered in Iraq and he said that counting them didn't matter. 119. Because art and antiquities were stolen from the Baghdad Museum by professional art thieves who allowed to operate and smuggle the objects out of the country for private collectors. 120. Because hospitals were looted in Iraq without the army being given any direction to protect them. 121. Because nuclear facilities were looted in Iraq without the army being given any direction to protect them. 122. Because schools were looted in Iraq without the army being given any direction to protect them. 123. Because antiquities were looted from the national library without the army being given any direction to protect them. 124. Because no weapons of mass destruction - the excuse for going to war - were found. http://www.radioleft.com/article.php?sid=440

way back about year ago or so, there was a program on 60 minutes about Ireland and how much of a model country it became as rapid development such as software development and high tech sector it ranks if I'm correct 2nd in the world next to India. I often think of Ireland and Armenia two nations had there share of hardship, one from Turkish oppression, and the other from British, and Armenia very much could end up like present Ireland some day in near future, I hope. For some 40 years ago Irish used to go to England much like Mexicans who come to US for low paid jobs, now days it’s English who “invade” Ireland in an Ironic twist to work at those same low paying jobs. Well some day I hope Armenia will resemble Ireland, I admire this country very much

Statement of Speaker J. Dennis Hastert, Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Majority Whip Roy Blunt Regarding the Schiff Amendment to the Foreign Operations Appropriations Bill July 15, 2004 (Washington D.C.) Speaker of the House J. Dennis Hastert, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and House Majority Whip Roy Blunt released the following statement regarding House adoption of the Schiff Amendment to the Foreign Operations Appropriations bill. “We are strongly opposed to the Schiff Amendment to the Foreign Operations Appropriations bill, and we will insist that conferees drop that provision in conference. We have contacted the Bush Administration, and they have indicated their strong opposition to the amendment. We have also conveyed our opposition to Chairman Kolbe and he has assured us that he will insist on it being dropped in the conference committee.” “Turkey has been a reliable ally of the United States for decades, and the deep foundation upon which our mutual economic and security relationship rests should not be disrupted by this amendment.” “On its face, the amendment is meaningless. Current U.S. law already prohibits foreign governments from using American foreign aid to lobby. But we understand the political motivation behind the amendment, and for that reason, we will insist that it be dropped.” “Our relationship with Turkey is too important to us to allow it to be in any way damaged by a poorly crafted and ultimately meaningless amendment.” “Furthermore, we have no intention of scheduling H.Res. 193, as reported out of the Judiciary Committee in April, during the remainder of this Congress.” http://speaker.house.gov/library/intrelati...hiffAmend.shtml

WASHINGTON, DC - In a front-page statement posted today on the web-page of the Speaker of the U.S. House, Congressional Republican leaders, who have for the past eighteen months blocked the progress of legislation recognizing the Armenian Genocide, attacked the adoption, yesterday, of the Schiff Amendment by the full U.S. House, reported the Armenian National Committee (ANCA). The amendment restricts the Turkish government from using U.S. foreign aid dollars to finance its campaign to defeat the Genocide Resolution, H.Res.193. The statement issued by House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-IL), Majority Leader Tom Delay (R-TX) and Majority Whip Roy Blunt (R-MO) states that, “we are strongly opposed to the Schiff Amendment to the Foreign Operations Appropriations bill, and we will insist that conferees drop that provision in conference. . . Turkey has been a reliable ally of the United States for decades, and the deep foundation upon which our mutual economic and security relationship rests should not be disrupted by this amendment.” "Speaker Hastert and his colleagues in the House leadership - having spent the past year and a half trying to kill the Genocide Resolution - are now trying to subvert the clear will of an overwhelming bi-partisan majority in support of this human rights measure," said ANCA Executive Director Aram Hamparian. "We find it deeply offensive that these officials would allow a foreign nation - particularly one that so blatantly disdains the democratic values of the American people - to impose its dictates on our Congress." Yesterday evening, the U.S. House voted to approve the amendment, introduced by Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA). The measure was passed by a voice vote and added to the fiscal year 2005 foreign aid bill, H.R.4818. The Genocide Resolution, H.Res.193, reaffirms U.S. support for the Genocide Convention and cites the importance of remembering past crimes against humanity, including the Armenian Genocide, Holocaust, Cambodian and Rwandan genocides, in an effort to stop future atrocities. It faces intense opposition from the Turkish government, which has enlisted the backing of the White House in its efforts to press Congressional leaders to block this measure from being scheduled for a vote of the full House. Both Representatives Schiff and Congressional Armenian Caucus Co-Chairman Frank Pallone (D-NJ) have written separate letters expressing their disappointment with the Congressional leadership's attack on the Schiff Amendment. Rep. Pallone noted that, "we as a nation cannot allow the government of Turkey to undermine our democratic process and usurp our principles. To do so is to stand against the will of the people of the United States. Mr. Speaker, last night Mr. Schiff introduced a sound amendment that was approved by the House of Representatives. Yet your statement today, undercuts that vote and asserts that the people's voice can be silenced." Commenting on Speaker Hastert's assertion that he will not schedule a vote on H.Res.193, Rep. Schiff stated, "your refusal to allow the genocide resolution to be brought up for a vote directly contradicts your promise, made in a meeting with Armenian-American community leaders in my congressional district in 2000, that you would bring the Armenian Genocide Resolution to a floor vote in the United States House of Representatives"

hahahahaaha Vay Vava jan, when you will learn not to get sucked into one of Domino's black holes! there is only one solution left, ban Domino

Good Job guys, congrads to you all Maral jan I dont need convincing

did somebody say beer ???? I strongly agree with Vava, and for those who will take this under cosidaration might as well fallow Vavas idea, let things cool off a bit, and have a at list a beer or ...............

from ANCA WASHINGTON, DC – In a powerful rebuke to the Turkish government's campaign of genocide denial, the House of Representatives this evening adopted the Schiff Amendment, prohibiting the Turkish government from using U.S. foreign assistance in its multi-million dollar campaign to defeat legislation (H.Res.193) recognizing the Armenian Genocide, reported the Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA). The amendment, introduced by Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA), was passed by a voice vote and added to the fiscal year 2005 foreign aid bill (H.R.4818). The foreign aid bill was later passed by a vote of 365 to 41. In his remarks on the House floor introducing the measure, Rep. Schiff told his colleagues that, "today I offer a simple amendment that will honor the one and a half million Armenians who perished in the Armenian Genocide of the 1915 and 1923. I consider this a sacred obligation to ensure that the men, women, and children who perished in the Armenian Genocide are not lost to history and that this Congress not fund shameful efforts to deny that the Genocide occurred." Commenting after the vote, Rep. Schiff said, "We are another step closer to silencing those who would deny the murder of 1.5 million Armenians," adding that, "This amendment stands true to the memory of the victims." "The passage of this amendment is a major victory," said Armenian Caucus Co-Chairman Frank Pallone, Jr. "It clearly sends a message that the United States House of Representatives will not tolerate Turkey's lobbying against the recognition of the Armenian Genocide." In his remarks during consideration of the measure, the New Jersey legislator stressed that "it is time for this body to stop defending and funding a government that continues to deny its own history, and refuses to break with the pattern of intolerance established by past Turkish governments which dealt with minority issues by committing genocide against Armenians, massacring and driving Greeks from its shores, restricting the rights of Christians to worship, and denying the existence of its Kurdish citizens." "We want, first and foremost, to thank Congressman Schiff for his tireless leadership in advancing this amendment, to recognize the strong support of Armenian Caucus Co-Chairmen Frank Pallone and Joe Knollenberg, and to note the pivotal role that Chairman Kolbe played in helping this measure reach the House floor - where, as we all saw this evening, it enjoyed overwhelming bi-partisan support," said ANCA Chairman Ken Hachikian. The Genocide Resolution, H.Res.193, reaffirms U.S. support for the Genocide Convention and cites the importance of remembering past crimes against humanity, including the Armenian Genocide, Holocaust, Cambodian and Rwandan genocides, in an effort to stop future atrocities. It faces intense opposition from the Turkish government, which has enlisted the backing of the White House in its efforts to block this measure from being scheduled for a vote of the full House. The Genocide Resolution was introduced, in the House, in April, 2003, by Representatives George Radanovich (R-CA), Adam Schiff (D-CA), and Congressional Armenian Caucus Co-Chairs Frank Pallone (D-NJ) and Joe Knollenberg (R-MI). Its Senate companion measure was introduced, in June, 2003, by Senators John Ensign (R-NV) and Jon Corzine (D-NJ). H.Res.193 was adopted unanimously by the House Judiciary Committee last May. Support for the measure has been widespread off of Capitol Hill as well, with a diverse coalition of over 100 ethnic, religious, civil and human rights organizations calling for its passage, including American Values, National Organization of Women, Sons of Italy, NAACP, Union of Orthodox Rabbis, and the National Council of La Raza.

Sasun, I believe the thread you created at the beginning, you didn’t expected so much doughts and debate, giving the fact sensitive nature of the topic in time would start debate, questioning and doughts among us, and during the course of a heated debate I don’t believe posts should be modified, Domino did not break any rules nor his post should be modified! I nether agree with you or Domino, and frankly speaking, you should of ended the other thread long time ago.

I totally fundamentally and categorically agree (don’t believe?? me ask Maral or my wife )

Domino wait till i get to Montreal, do you relise how much spanking you acumilated over the time?? about jan I must of made an impration on you Azat jan its harmless joke about the hot topic of being Armenian, some maybe havent seen it, will you do me a fayvor and link it so those kids ( Domino and Vigil ) can enjoy?? Thanks Bud I'll email you By the way, Boston ha? did you see my bro?

can someone help me post a exe. file here please? its 800kb big and I need your help Thanks

here is the full text in case some have dificult time registering Exodus Is New Chapter of Loss in Armenia's Sad Story By Susan B. Glasser Washington Post Foreign Service Monday, July 12, 2004; Page A01 SEVABERD, Armenia -- First, her son left for Russia. Then a daughter. Then her other daughter. Last fall, her remaining son, daughter-in-law and three grandchildren moved. One by one over the last decade, they fled this village on a barren mountain peak, abandoning the rocky earth where the family has lived for a hundred years. Now it is Atlas Hadjiyan's turn. She has sold her two cows and no longer tends the vegetable garden that is necessary to survive the brutal winter. In September, she plans to become yet another reluctant emigrant, leaving the independent homeland that Armenians dreamed of for generations for the uncertain welcome of an icy Russian city a thousand miles north. "I don't want to leave," she said, "but this is no place to live." For this village, whose name means Black Fortress, where there is no running water, no telephones, no paid work and, for much of the winter, no access to the outside world, Hadjiyan's exit will be just another quiet disappointment. For Armenia at large, her impending departure is the latest result of a slow-motion crisis of confidence that has left the rugged mountain country hemorrhaging people for nearly all of its short history of independence. No one knows just how many have left, but even the most conservative estimates put the total at more than 1 million Armenians and counting -- with a total remaining population of no more than 3 million and perhaps as little as 2 million. The exodus has made Armenia one of the fastest-disappearing nations in the world. "I call it depopulation," said Gevorg Pogosyan, a sociologist in the capital, Yerevan. "It calls into question whether Armenia is a country with a future. We are a weak society, weakened both politically and economically by this migration." At the time of independence in 1991, Armenia's mere existence seemed a triumph over a tragic history. The world's 4 million-strong Armenian diaspora exulted at the idea of a national homeland less than a century after the Turks killed between 500,000 and 1.5 million Armenians. But instead of luring home successful Armenians who had made new lives in the West, the post-Soviet country has written new chapters of loss into an already sad story. Damage remains from the 1988 earthquake that killed tens of thousands. With broad support from its public, Armenia fought and won a war with neighboring Azerbaijan over the disputed enclave of Nagorno-Artsax in the 1990s, capturing and holding a large swath of Azeri territory. The Armenians in the enclave supported the war. But Armenia has never concluded a peace deal and remains under economic blockade by Azerbaijan and Turkey. In a country with no significant natural resources, a collapsed Soviet industrial infrastructure and an economy just now showing signs of recovery, many Armenians had little choice but to leave. About 80 percent headed to Russia and other parts of the former Soviet Union; the rest joined the earlier diaspora in the United States or Western Europe. Russian experts have calculated that $1 billion from migrants in Russia flows home annually to support Armenian families -- nearly double the Armenian government's entire budget. "If not for these billions, we would have had riots and revolutions here," Pogosyan said. The wave of departures, which hit a high of about 200,000 a year in the mid-1990s, has stabilized in recent years, but the cumulative effect remains. Far more Armenians now live outside their homeland than in it. The society that stayed has far fewer working-age men, fewer marriages, fewer births. Women outnumber men 56 percent to 44 percent. About 1.5 million people, or nearly half the official population, live on pensions or other government handouts. There's hardly a family untouched by the shifts -- from the government official charged with stopping the migration, whose own relatives decamped for Moscow, to the television host whose wife and two children moved to California 11 years ago without him. Lawyer Hrayr Tovmasyan has watched his circle of friends and family dwindle with each passing year. From his graduate school class of four in 1998, one lives in Paris, one in Heidelberg and one in Moscow. His wife's siblings have all left for Russia; his uncles are in the United States and Denmark. "I'm the only one here," he said. His best friend, a professor, gave up his $70-a-month salary recently to move to Vancouver. He's now working in a furniture plant, but at least, reports Tovmasyan, who got an e-mail update from him last week, "he will get more money than his wife for the first time in his life." "It's the good part of the population that's gone, the economically active part," Pogosyan said. "They are the ones who are supposed to create a middle class here. Instead, where is this middle class? It's in Europe and Russia." And still it continues. Several times a day, travel agent Diana Asatryan said, she gets customers with telltale questions: What happens if you overstay a visa abroad? Can I buy a one-way ticket? "The ones who are leaving, they always reveal themselves," she said. Black-market prices for European visas are well-known in the business, she said -- a reported $8,000 to $10,000 for a visa to enter any of the 15 European countries known as the Schengen zone. Favorite destinations are France -- "if you have a baby there, you get residency," she noted -- and the United States, "if you're a young person." No one knows just how few Armenians remain. A long-delayed official census -- the first since the Soviet collapse -- was conducted in 2001 and just released in full this year; it found an official population of 3.2 million. Independent experts, opposition politicians and many ordinary Armenians find that figure impossible to believe. "By the numbers, nothing changed," said Asatryan. "But even in my own family, 10 people left. Officially they are still here, they are still registered. But they are not here!" Several experts said the country's population today likely is at between 2 million and 2.5 million. The disputed figures have become a subject of urgent political debate. Opposition leaders, who united to protest vote fraud in last year's presidential election, claim the census was deliberately inflated to provide more voters for President Robert Kocharian's reelection. More broadly, they say the constant loss of Armenians represents a widespread skepticism about the country's prospects. "Armenia is disappearing, broken into pieces," said Artashes Geghamian, head of the opposition National Unity Party. "The authorities took away the feeling of having a future from the people." In an interview, Kocharian said there is not "a serious person in Armenia" who would dispute the accuracy of the census, and he said that "migration out of Armenia has stopped" as a result of strong economic growth on his watch that pushed the gross domestic product up by 13.7 percent last year. U.S. Ambassador John Ordway endorsed the official head count, pointing to U.S. technical assistance. "We are very confident there was no artificial manipulation of the census figures," Ordway said. "It's not as if the last person is about to slam the door and turn the lights off," he said. But the head of the government agency created in 2000 to deal with the migration crisis is less sanguine. "To say that the wave of migration has stopped would be wrong," said Gagik Yeganyan. Armenian society, he said, is permanently marked by the "very negative demographic and social consequences" of its lost population -- even if there are tentative signs of improvement. Births, for example, are down from about 90,000 a year in the early 1990s to around 35,000 today. Most migrants were reluctant to leave and might be persuaded to come home if conditions in Armenia improved, Yeganyan said. "We have a national idea -- 'One country, one nation, one culture, one religion.' It means that Armenia is considered the motherland for all Armenians living around the world, even though only 30 percent of Armenians live on the territory of the motherland," he said. "Armenians who leave always think they are not leaving forever." Yeganyan acknowledged the government has yet to produce a comprehensive strategy for luring them back and providing opportunities once they are here. A study from 1998, he said, offered a cautionary tale: Out of 1,500 Armenians deported from Germany that year, 92 percent returned to Germany within a year. To entice some Armenians back, at least those at the upper end of the income scale, manicured lawns and immaculate California-style suburban houses are taking shape on the outskirts of Yerevan in what is billed as the first American-inspired gated community in the South Caucasus. "Come home to Armenia," reads the sign outside the guardhouse at the Vahakni Homes and Timeshare Resort. The brainchild of a building magnate based in New Jersey, it was originally pitched to successful expatriate Armenians ready to rebuild the country. Company owner Vahak Hovnanian "firmly believes the future growth of an independent Armenia lies in the diaspora actively coming back, not just sending money," said Arthur Havighorst, the firm's vice president. But of about 32 houses built or in mid-construction, at prices starting at $190,000, 65 percent have been bought by local Armenians. The remainder, executive director Karekin Odabashian said, are being sold to people who left in recent years to make money in Moscow and elsewhere in East European countries and now want a place in the old country. Not a single resident has come from the United States. Havighorst said the company has modified its pitch. In addition to ownership, it is offering overseas Armenians time shares at the rate of $6,000 for 20 years' worth of one-week vacations in the motherland. "We're very optimistic," he said. In a week in late June, he said, the firm found two takers for that deal -- "both in California."

Anushig, kiddo , i was listening to this song all day today, apres your great janik

I want, one and for all, not to know many things. Wisdom sets limits to knowledge too. The privilege of greatness.- It is the privilege of greatness to confer intense happiness with insignificant gifts. The great epochs of our life come when we gain the courage to rechristen our evil as what is best in us. One is best punished for one's virtues. The Skin of the Soul.-As the bones, flesh, entrails, and blood-vessels are enclosed within a skin, which makes the aspect of man endurable, so the emotions and passions of the soul are enwrapped with vanity, - it is the skin of the soul. All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses. Our own opinions.- The first opinion that occurs to us when we are suddenly asked about anything is not usually our own, but only the current opinion belonging to our caste, position, or family; our own opinions seldom float on the surface. Nietzsche I like the last one best

Happy b-day Domino Jan, wish you all the best, most important good health and prosperous future.

Frustrated Joaquin Rodrigo, famed Spanish composer wrote his famous work of Concerto de Aranjuez due to his wife’s illness and fact that she was dying of cancer. If you red Charents biography you’ll find similar inspirations which contributed to his great works, as well as Teryan, Mitsarents, Komitas, Sayat Nova, Siamanto, Sevak……… Yes major events, sadness, and if the person is conches most of the time it can be inspirational and lead to creativity. You’ll find this not just among us, but in every cultures, look at the Russian literature, Tolstoy, Pushkin, Lermontov, Gorky etc…..

Did you know Aram Khachaturian only came acquainted with classical music not until he was 23?