Kazza

And no that's not her real hair!

yeah, she seems like one of these that take her fame for what it is. I just commented on her collness and unflappability (If you can call it that!) because Graham is out to shock and offend sometimes, but she was taking it in her stide and doing the same back to him, which not too many of his guests do. And I actually think her work is quite good, unlike others. She also visited armenia just after the 1998 earthquake, to show she was interested in helping out. Anyway, I just ahd a look at the virtua ani, and I'm honestly not just saying this, but I think it was awesome, 999.99% And I am often very critical. You'll be hearing more from me on that!

To Steve and ALi (breifly): I strongly agree that if the opposing side is doing something wrong, then it's definatly not ok for your side to do it. Pouring more fuel on the fire wil make your side look as bad and therefore give it a bad reputation, which means nobody will be able to trust either, even when you are dong good. But, you can live in terror anywhere, whatever you are doing. I don't know much about the subject , but if so many are stating as a fact, that the Turkish police force inflicts unnescessary abuse then you don't have to be living anywhere in particular. Don't shoot me down. pls! just my point of veiw.

quote:Originally posted by MJ: Kazza, I guess the two of us think in two different plattitudes without a communication bridge. Otherwise I don't know how to explain our constant miscommunication. It's Ok MJ I'm around tommorrow. The "communication Bridge" doesn't seem to be there, I'm willing to build MY bridges.

Oh good. It's good to see people responding to this topic, because it's an interesting and important one. I think that's absolutley right, the point about onlookers saying how terribe the international events are, and the few that can do something about it don't. To be looking on is as bad as committing the deed yourself. Bear with me if my information is not correct, but The first impression I got about the Turkish Police force is that it is known for being corrupt. And also against it's own people. There have been articles posted on this forum, about it abusing their own women. Is this right? I mean , Ali is a real person telling the situation as he lives it, he's not just some article. As the others are not either. But you see, I don't know enough about these things! Mabye I need to be taken in hand and properly trained. [ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Kazza ]

MJ, I like your posts and your contributions very much, which is WHY I was surprised by what you said earier, and also surprsed by your reaction to my latest post, which I found to be rather closed But I think it's very sad, as a moderator, that you don't seem to understand what ALL the members have to contribute and say. I think that's not in the best interests.

MJ, I think my opinion is right. But you are obviously entitled to whatever you are intitled, I can't force you too try and be open to what I think. Or what other people think.

Hmm! that's the point, It wasn't meant to be good! So bad the badness is funny. [ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Kazza ]

Plus you were banned or on the brink of being banned, If you said anything against another memebrs wishes. Anyway, that's not my probelm, I shoudln't have even mentioned it, it's not important. MJ, in my earlier post , I wasn't nesscesarliy barking at you, I just wanted to show you what I said and see it from my point of veiw.

quote:Originally posted by THOTH: Hi Kazza, Yes this was basically my point. I am ignorant of many of the specifics of these divisions (and how some of them play out in these forums among Armenians). This is one reason I am often hesitant to jump into Armenian forums (my ignorance of the internal politics etc)...and feel more at home in forums frequented by Turks and mixed audience - where I feel I can bring better perspective in the Turk - Armenian issues without getting caught up in the quagmire of Armenian politics. I'm sure that there are many Armenians much more aware of these issues (among Armenians) then I. quote: I'm not sure I even want to know more really. Will my knowing more conceerning the specific disputes among Armenians lead to my being able to contribute any better (where it matters)? I don't really think so - so to some degree I have remained ignorant (and non-aligned) purposfly. I do see enough from Armenians - both here on the forums and within my own (Armenian) friends and family to disturb me quite enough (regarding the [reractionary and exclusivistic] tendencies among our people). It is such a shame to see - as we are at the same time a wonderful people. I fully understand MJ's frustrations (though sometimes I think they are misplaced..though admitadly i don't understand all of the nuances...). I also think that Ara Balozian is right on the mark in many cases - sure in a generalized way that may not be applicable in all cases (or even in the specific cases that he refers to) - but in general his observations should be taken to heart by all Armenians - the very least to warn us and remind us where not to let our tendencies hold sway...[/QB] See there you go. My point exactly, straight from the horses mouth. (I'm not saying you are a horse, Thoth ) I think it's SUCH a pity because that makes people remain ignorant, because they feel "**** it, won't even bother" On non-computer communities, you will find this intellectual so -far- up-you own-arse-to-see intellectual snobbery, SO much worse. Even my dad used to drive every one up the wall with it. I know how much that is important to them, and that's the best thing that nons-think of us. It's not a bad thing at all and may I say how proud that's a part of my heritage. But I think among armenians I think it's overdone, especially on the forums. it just happens every where you see anything armenian it's always got some sort of an intellectual element in it. On all the sites, journals, litreature, the first thing you see is boasting of how many degrees and doctorates the contributors have. The first thing. Nobody actually ever said that ara wasn't coming out with good veiwpoints. I personally myself am amazed with the arguements he comes out with sometimes. And I think others are too. But At times I find that he takes certain points and becomes, ever so slighty, pedantic. (sorry!) Also takes points out of these points, blows them up, and expresses bitterness, that although he says it is, I'm not fully convinced it's REALLY about the armenian cause, but underlying issues in his own life. But armenians take all of it to heart as the armenian cause, I'll just have to dissagree? I don't think they should. . P.S, you should have seen this forum around a year ago- most were against mixing with nonA's, marrying them, and everyone was ani turk. It's come a long way.

Yeah, I did notice that in the interveiw. She looked like she was about to laugh when Graham whipped out the usual sex toys, but remembered the surgeons advice and stopped. So that's why she had to give out faint smiles intead. Actually, it's funny you should say that. Just before Cher came on, Graham dressed up as Harry Potter, and was showing him flying on a broomstick. He said, "Helloooo, hhmmm. My name's Harry Poofter, hhhhm" made a few innuendos about riding on a big broomstick (I musn't post them here, this is a family forum For the advert he was dressed as Tarkan and was doing the famous "kiss kiss" dance that he does, with the background music. Not very delightful, not very genteel, I know. [ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Kazza ]

Yeah, I did notice that in the interveiw. She looked like she was about to laugh when Graham whipped out the usual sex toys, but remembered the surgeons advice and stopped. So that's why she had to give out faint smiles intead. Actually, it's funny you should say that. Just before Cher came on, Graham dressed up as Harry Potter, and was showing him flying on a broomstick. He said, "Helloooo, hhmmm. My name's Harry Poofter, hhhhm" made a few innuendos about riding on a big broomstick (I musn't post them here, this is a family forum :blush For the advert he was dressed as Tarkan and was doing the famous "kiss kiss" dance that he does, with the background music. CAN THE RELEVANT MOD BOD DELETE PLS? [ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Kazza ]

quote:Originally posted by MJ: What is it, Kazza? Couldn't follow you. Sorry MJ, sorry you couldn't follow me. Mabye I need more traning. (natch) But what I was saying, after Thoth mentioned about not knowing the reason armenians divide themselves into little groups, was that nobody knew but was just taken as an age-old custom that was always there. I think that's what he was talking about/meant as well. I thought you might know more, or have done some research ABOUT the little reasons behind it.

quote:Originally posted by Aghmug: The main reason I don't post anymore is because the discussions have pretty much gone over my head. A year ago there was more socializing going on. Not sure if the change is for the better or not. In any case, this being a public forum, it is what it is. It continues to evolve and that will not cease. Hi Pilafhead. I think that scares a lot of people off. I see that most of the people online at a time (approx 8) are guests, or invisible members. Why they choose to remain invisible, or the guests and ex guests which register but never contribute, i think is a bit of a question. They like to see the interesting and intelligent discussions, often led by MJ and the others. But a lot of the like said in this thread before, don't become active , don't want to contribute, because they feel they don't "match up" to the heavy intellectual discussions. I personally think that is silly. A forum is there for the users and should make it what ever they choose. I think a bit of light chat/humour lightens up the pace and most users really appreciate it , but don't say anything. But I think the potential users feel this unspoken fear that if they don't have a lot of knowledge in certian areas to flaunt, their discussoins won't be valued, which I also think is nonsense, as we all have our strenghths and weaknesses. I think it makes the forum negative and nobody wants to be in a negative atmosphere. What one person could have knowledge about in certain areas, could help and give info, and other members ciuld give knowledge on other areas. Many of the people that are respected as "intellectual " did not come onto this forum, with the knowledge, but LEARNT from it. Ya get me This is what you said, MJ. They clearly invite a lot of resentment from a lot of “accidental Armenians,” I mean the ethnics. Therefore, it is easy to figure out, I think, that I would receive more resentment than anybody else in this forum. I have no problems who would contradict me with qualified arguments. You are saying that some don’t have adequate mental capacity. So what do I do. I have tried to train them. If you think of it, Thorny , The Cat and Ali also train them. Thanks, guys. But some don’t grow. Now, if they don’t have the capacity, let them stay “home.” The Armenian issue is very complex. Especially this. I have tried to train them. If you think of it, Thorny , The Cat and Ali also train them. Thanks, guys. But some don’t grow. Now, if they don’t have the capacity, let them stay “home.” MJ, come ooon. You are known as a brainy man and I thought you were. And you do a lot of good on the forum, but. But this doesn't exactly do you the world of justice, does it? What are you saying? The rest of us poor, straight-from-the-woods "accidental armenians", who obviously don't have the MENTAL CAPACITY (wow) need these members to "train us?" train? We are not monkeys to be trained. I thought I was enjoying having all types of discussions with these members and learning from each other, but it seems I was being trained instead, thank you very much, for the enlightment! Peeved from Tunbridge Wells.

quote:Originally posted by THOTH: MJ/Khodja - I must admit that I do not fully follow all of your differences (though do understand some certainly) and I am ignorant of many of the specifics of divisions (political & geographic) among Armenians (other than knowing that they do exist - not always why or what for in particular)...) I don't know, nor have I found anyone in my travels that does. Or Mabye MJ? Perhaps you could scatter a few peals of wisdom.

OK, sick joke. Why did god give women legs? To get from the kitchen to the bedroom Very dry.

Click here! Orelse did any body see Graham norton on Friday night? He had Cheras his guest. I think she looks like a nice lady, cool and unflappable by his filthy humour, unlike some of his other guests. Also ,Look at Ali G's new rabiz look! Click here!

At this point I think it would be a good idea to pursue the discussion forther? Lastyear in my country Kurds were refugees because there was a lot of trouble with "ethnic cleansing"

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: Depends... On one hand, they might have tasted worse with what they had to do to preserve the stuff (I go easy on salt, and salted stuff is just a no-no for me). Tasted worse in terms of what we are used to today. On the other hand, we are eating tasteless stuff today, especially vegetables and fruit (and also meat and grains - hey, what's left??)... So, older and/or ancient stuff might have been TASTIER, too. Actually, just after I posted, I thought of what you were about to say, then I thought "Let them all comment then I'll say it" I was just thinking imagine if the ancients came to the western world and tasted our food now. Not only might they think it's horrible too, but they probably would be able to notice what is heavily artificial and what isn't because they'd be used to natural taste. Buscuits and cakes that are advertised as low fat have about 7 spoons of sugar to each treat. As a nation, British consume up to 200 kilos of sugar each person on average,and 100 years ago it ws only 2 kg. And these aare refind sugars, found in processed foods, like Mac Donalds and shit. I have to watch out for "e"-numbers, as they make me hyper. As for fruit, I can't eat what's in the supermarkets because no matter how much I wash and scrub the apples with jif, the filmy substance of fertiliser is there. Plus it came out thatorganic fruit is sprayed with the same amount of fertilisers, but only diferent kinds, to keep the fruit small and shrivelled to market it as "organic". I like eating my fruit form the Greek, Turkish and Iranian green grocers around.

Hello! Thanks for the compliment Thorny! I agree, there were some other members before you came as well that were excellent, like Gayanne, Sulamita, and Pilaf head also. I know Tigrannes doesn't get along with everyone and he has some extreme veiws that I find offensive, but I like him and think he's a good memeber and has a lot to say. Mabye moderators sending them PM's or emails persuading them to be active again is an idea. But for real I've been busy latley. Other wise I would have spent a little more time to keep in touch. I've been busy working to earn a dime, and also worked my way up whle I was there which isn't bad. but I fear not for too long , because yesterday I walked in to work to collect my cheque for the month and found half the ppl working there! They have been laying a lot of people off and I thought thatwas just rumour. I haven't heard anythng yet but the smart thing to do is to keep looking IMO.

quote: while khodja does the research on the lydians, here is some brief info on them: quote: the lydians were an anatolian people who were linguistically related to the earlier hittites and luvians (like the spanish and the italians are). they were there during most of antiquity probably all the way to the birth of christ and slightly beyond. quote: they lived at a place called "lydia" (aptly enough) which was along the southern aegean shore. Hello Agrupulu. Thanks for the reply and the info! Yes, I did hear of the "Lydians" breifly a few times. But I don't know very much about them. I'd really appreciate if you COULD postsome info/or point me towards some titles or websites. And we can also wait for Khodja to post the info too. It's always best to get the info from more than one veiwpoint, isn't it? quote: they have distinctive architecture, very different from hellenic, and the later hellenes did borrow a few things from them. OK. then If we COULD see the examples of architecture (mabye I can surf and find some? but in previous experience I know how hard it is to find ANY pictures of artefacts online!!) the we can compare and see who copied what from where! I personally think arguements like "we invented this" or "they invented that", without proper backup, s pretty much like a chicken and the egg story. Often it's interesting tho. quote: money (or rather, coinage) was invented in that part of the world (the chinese also used bronze implements as money, but my memory fails me when it comes to dates) by the lydians, and then quickly spread to the rest of the mediterranean basin and beyond. the time was around 7th century bc. and the coins were made of electron (an alloy of gold and silver) and were called "stater" again if my memory doesn't fail me. Yes, I remeber finding out that money was invented in Eastern Turkey in the ancient times! But the coinage you are reffering to, is that linked? That coinage could have just been used for ornamental purpose, like they did and do in athens. But you might be right, because the idea of buying and selling, the first businesses followed shortly after , spread across the mediteranean, then the world. I thought it was Egypt but it was Turkey. quote: i am sure khodja can post more (and i would appreciate to know whether the name of the coinage really was stater, i need to know), but meanwhile this will give you capsule info on them. quote: by the way, the NAMES of dolma, sarma and yalanci are all purely turkic dolma means filling, sarma means wrapping and yalanci means liar, or fake. of course the actual food itself has little to do with central asia since most of the ingredients are middle eastern in character. but the central asians do have the concept of filled stuff, because it is one way to preserve and transport otherwise perishable and difficult to handle foodstuffs. Again, it's quite possible that this type of food had asian influences, if you think about the oriental style of stuffing food,like spring rolls, or even indian samosas(and the mexican style of spices and stuffing food was taken from the asiatic-roots!) although the style is middle eastern, wherever that is from or whatever that means. Also, Meditereaneans have darkened up a lot since the ancient times (IMO, the jews have lightened up, because of exodus into european countries since 0 BC. Hm. I must say, the one good thing about western world living is the acessability to all different styles of food around the world! quote: as for kebab, again the NAME is arabic from kabba but since it is basically a piece of meat on a skewer and must have been around since the neanderthals you probably cannot credit the arabs with the invention of it, unless they are willing to consider themselves apemen. Or you can say, we can all consider ourselves apemen, because the neanderthals came up with the idea of eating meat! But the arabs must hav come up with the idea of meants on sticks but making it culinary and presentable. There are a lot to thank the ancient arabs for! quote: turkish coffee is called turkish coffee because that specific way of preparing it was invented in ottoman turkey. the plant itself is either of arab or ethiopian origin (i mean the discovery). arabs did use coffee, but those days mixing it with butter and turning it into something that looked like marmite (but tasted less bad) was more common than drinking it the way we do now. You must imagine how bad food must have tasted in them days, if you compare it to todays standards. They musthave had to use horrible ingredients, to preserve or emisfluise things.

quote:Originally posted by khodja: Kazza, The Lydians were a people of Anatolia. I will research the exact location of their nation and post it. OK, that would B nice of you. Forgive me if this is a silly question, but are they Turkic?

In that case, I was thinking they could post us a free sample, after showing on a web-cam!

hhhm. I know some guys who want to be house husbands, because they think it's easy! There must be some mail order ones about on the net, very willing, very pleasing. Shall we find out what's out there?

Sorry-what does "Lydians" mean?