Halacaoglu (hayvanoglu) At It Again

[Yervant1]

How can one take this clown seriously as a historian? Even a Turk will have difficulty accepting this BS.

 

AZG Armenian Daily #010, 20/01/2007

 

 

Armenian Genocide

 

ACCORDING TO TURKISH UNION OF HISTORIANS ONLY 8500 ARMENIANS WERE

KILLED IN 1915

 

In its December 19 issue, "Azg" stated that the process of the

international recognition of the Armenian Gencoide proves that the

Turkish policy of dinials is groundless. It also makes Turkey face the

fact that took place in 1915. In such conditions, the Turks lose

temper and begin to actively annihilate the Armenian

historical-cultural values.

 

Thus, Doctor Professor Yusuf Halachoghli, chairman of theTurkish

Historian Union, is one of those who is most actively involved in the

policy of historical denials. In the January 16 issue of "Huriet" it

was stated that Halachoghli participated in an extremely scholarly

conference entitled "Occupation and Liberation of the Region of

Adana." The conference was organized by the union of Adana

residents. According to the newspaper, he stated , as a quite

experienced accountant, that "in the course of exile, as a result of

criminal attacks only 8500 Armenians were killed." He added that

37000 Armenians died of various epidemies. The Turkish "scholar"

stated that on their way from Erzroum to Kars, Bitlis and Ardahan, the

Armenians killed 530 thousand Muslims. He said they have serious

documents that deny the Armenian genocide, adding that in 1915, the

military court investigated 1673 cases of Armenian defendants. Thus,

the court senetenced 68 defendants to life imprisonment, 524 to

imprisonment and 67 to death. He said that according to the

international court, the accusation of a genocide disappears, when the

authorities execute the criminals.

 

It's worth mentioning that this Ottoman military instance was shaped

in 1919 and not in 1915, as Halachoghli tried to represent. It was

established in istanbul for the very reason of revealing and executing

the gulty for the Armenian Genocide.

 

In other words, Halachoghli lies and distorts historical truth. His

lies were so obvious that the participants of the conference inquired

why the Armenians were exiled after 850 years of cohabitation. In

response, Halachoghli said that "the colonial states used the

Armenians to get rid of the Turks and make them leave Anatolia. As a

result of misionery activities from 1820 ies they became Catolics and

Protestants. The Armenians faught againt the Turkish Army and the half

of the Frenc Army comprised of the Armenians."

 

008-By Hakob Chakrian

 

[zurderer]

why did you put one of our prominent historian to humor sector?

[Stormig]

Because Turkish historians are a joke.

[Yervant1]

why did you put one of our prominent historian to humor sector?

I didn't know you would come around, now this is a good sense of humour on your part I thought you never had.

[zurderer]

Because Turkish historians are a joke.

 

Err historian? Maybe we should label them as story teller. Not all of them lie, but still they explain history like a beatiful story.

didn't know you would come around, now this is a good sense of humour on your part I thought you never had.

 

I am always a serious man.

 

By the way, It is interesting numbers always change. It becomes 40000,18000, 60000.. I am curious who is changing numbers.

 

 

[Yervant1]

By the way, It is interesting numbers always change. It becomes 40000,18000, 60000.. I am curious who is changing numbers.

Why don't you ask your lying historians.

You can start with Halacaoglu which is Hayvanoglu in my books.

[zurderer]

I read history magazine published by him the Turkish Historian Union. 40.000 is his number.(Including all death of armenians.)

 

It was an interesting magazine. There was some document about returning of armenians.(Specially after the fall of young turks.) I am curious what happened them after they returned.

 

[Yervant1]

I read history magazine published by him the Turkish Historian Union. 40.000 is his number.(Including all death of armenians.)

Forget that Hayvanoglu's numbers what do you think the number is?

 

It was an interesting magazine. There was some document about returning of armenians.(Specially after the fall of young turks.) I am curious what happened them after they returned.

I'll tell you what happened.

Not some all returned (Not)

They were greeted by Turks with flowers (Not)

They were given all their properties back (Not)

Their bank accounts were reactivated with interest of course (Not)

They were given their jobs back with promotions (Not)

They were given promises that things like this will not happen again (Not)

I can go on if you like, you think you are smart, you want a dialogue with us about lies that your Hayvanoglu keeps writing.

You say that he is lying and make fun of him and yet you turn around and want to discuss his lies.

In my opinion your time is coming to an end in this forum if you continue like this.

 

[zurderer]

Forget that Hayvanoglu's numbers what do you think the number is?

 

will you swear If I say I think that It is less than 1.500.000? Personally I dont care number much. It is like a lottery. I dont trust armenians like I dont trust halacoglu. My humble guess is more than 700.000 less than 1.000.000, but It is only a guess.

 

I dont know number, do you?

 

I can go on if you like, you think you are smart, you want a dialogue with us about lies that your Hayvanoglu keeps writing.

 

I saw document that say, help armenians who is returning. It is not about halacoglu, It is about document. (I should add, this document is wroten when Istanbul was under occupation.

 

so noone returned? ok. It is not such important thing.

 

In my opinion your time is coming to an end in this forum if you continue like this.

 

I think that I forced my luck much more than this.

 

 

 

[Yervant1]

will you swear If I say I think that It is less than 1.500.000? Personally I dont care number much. It is like a lottery. I dont trust armenians like I dont trust halacoglu. My humble guess is more than 700.000 less than 1.000.000, but It is only a guess.

 

I dont know number, do you?

I saw document that say, help armenians who is returning. It is not about halacoglu, It is about document. (I should add, this document is wroten when Istanbul was under occupation.

 

so noone returned? ok. It is not such important thing.

I think that I forced my luck much more than this.

You say you don't care for numbers, also you say you accept Genocide then there is no need for numbers.

If the nuber is less than 1.5 million is it going to be less painfull?

May be some returned back, so what is your point? I think it is irrelevant.

I know you forced your luck more than this but you never know, it could be the small incident that could bite your butt.

[zurderer]

You say you don't care for numbers, also you say you accept Genocide then there is no need for numbers.

If the nuber is less than 1.5 million is it going to be less painfull?

 

No. It wont but It would be true. I dont trust liers, do you?

 

I dont trust armenian historians because they lie. I dont trust turkish ones, because they lie more than armenian historians.(Not sure about this.) So what do I have(I am not historian too.)? Only my humble guess and common sense.(I am from trabzon, You know we dont have much common sense too.)

 

Anyway, how can you wait Turks trust lier armenian historians? dont you think that they would prefer their own lier turkish historians?

 

May be some returned back, so what is your point? I think it is irrelevant.

 

It is irrelevant. I am just curious what happened them. How they went from Turkey.(Again) or did they stay?

 

know you forced your luck more than this but you never know, it could be the small incident that could bite your butt.

 

True. But If I dont write what I want, why should I stay this forum? So banning me or banning my words are not different. So I will try my luck once more.

 

 

[Yervant1]

No. It wont but It would be true. I dont trust liers, do you?

 

I dont trust armenian historians because they lie. I dont trust turkish ones, because they lie more than armenian historians.(Not sure about this.) So what do I have(I am not historian too.)? Only my humble guess and common sense.(I am from trabzon, You know we dont have much common sense too.)

 

Anyway, how can you wait Turks trust lier armenian historians? dont you think that they would prefer their own lier turkish historians?

It is irrelevant. I am just curious what happened them. How they went from Turkey.(Again) or did they stay?

True. But If I dont write what I want, why should I stay this forum? So banning me or banning my words are not different. So I will try my luck once more.

There is no hope for you I give up as I said before dialogue with you is a waist of time.

[zurderer]

I already accepted genocide and I already said that I wont support genocide claim(at least It is a small probability) at Turkey.

 

what do you hope?

 

accept everything you or any armenian said? Oh mastersssss. Okey.

 

No armenian historian lies.

 

Now you can think instead of me. I refuse a turk supperiority over my mind but I am ready to accept armenian one. After all you are good at chess.

 

anyway, what should I say next? all turks are murderers?

 

 

[DominO123]

There is no hope for you I give up as I said before dialogue with you is a waist of time.

 

I disagree, I always said this guy is more intelligent than his broken English would suggest at first. I suspect him to be some Turkish intellectual who has found a way to interact with Armenians by playing the role of the village idiot. He has made his points much more than any articulate Turk before him

 

Sometimes he uses English expressions, then delete verbs and play with his English. What are the chances that someone would read Halacoglu and will not read Western relevent materials to as a result conclude genocide? He still has to explain us what other language he speak beside Turkish and his English, because obviously there is something wrong there. And I am tired of talking with the fake him and it is about time he stops faking.

[DominO123]

anyway, what should I say next? all turks are murderers?

 

Start by stopping to fake your English.

 

[Yervant1]

I disagree, I always said this guy is more intelligent than his broken English would suggest at first. I suspect him to be some Turkish intellectual who has found a way to interact with Armenians by playing the role of the village idiot. He has made his points much more than any articulate Turk before him

 

Sometimes he uses English expressions, then delete verbs and play with his English. What are the chances that someone would read Halacoglu and will not read Western relevent materials to as a result conclude genocide? He still has to explain us what other language he speak beside Turkish and his English, because obviously there is something wrong there. And I am tired of talking with the fake him and it is about time he stops faking.

The reason I gave up on him because he is flip flopping.

One moment he is serious and the minute you ask him a serious question he turns around and answers you in a childish way and plays word games with his broken English on purpose as you said it.

Sometimes what he says make sense on certain topics but he turns around and ruins it with stupid remarks. I he wants to talk, lets all of us talk but no games.

[phantom22]

Fadi,

 

This comment comes from one whom you despise.

 

BRILLIANT DEDUCTION, FADI!!

 

I have found similar fakers on other websites. These guys seem to be "Joe Turk," a mere citizen Turk when in reality they are pro-Turkish academic scholars from the US.

 

I disagree, I always said this guy is more intelligent than his broken English would suggest at first. I suspect him to be some Turkish intellectual who has found a way to interact with Armenians by playing the role of the village idiot. He has made his points much more than any articulate Turk before him

 

Sometimes he uses English expressions, then delete verbs and play with his English. What are the chances that someone would read Halacoglu and will not read Western relevent materials to as a result conclude genocide? He still has to explain us what other language he speak beside Turkish and his English, because obviously there is something wrong there. And I am tired of talking with the fake him and it is about time he stops faking.

Edited January 25, 2007 by phantom22

[zurderer]

I disagree, I always said this guy is more intelligent than his broken English would suggest at first. I suspect him to be some Turkish intellectual who has found a way to interact with Armenians by playing the role of the village idiot. He has made his points much more than any articulate Turk before him

 

I said before I have enough english. I am just careless. I should also add, I am sure a turkish intellectual can find better way to communicate armenians. I am working at a bank not a newspaper.(I think I am intelligent because of this. Money is better than bullets.)

 

 

What are the chances that someone would read Halacoglu and will not read Western relevent materials to as a result conclude genocide?

 

I read other things too but as I said before, I dont believe them much.

 

He still has to explain us what other language he speak beside Turkish and his English, because obviously there is something wrong there

 

I think you are overestimating me. I learnt english because in turkey, you should learn it for a good job. I am a turkey centered person. Not interest much with other countries or langauges.

 

And I am tired of talking with the fake him and it is about time he stops faking.

 

I am not faking. Infact this is realy weird. dont you ever see any moderate intelligent Turk? why should I have perfect english?

 

Pls, this forum have not more than 100 people. do you realy think, If I believe this forum have an importance, I would accept genocide so openly?(It would harm my country.)

 

Start by stopping to fake your English.

 

I think problem comes from how did I learn english. Noone can learn a good english from computer games(Civilization, colonization, damn good warcraft and quake) and frp books.(dragonlance, forgetten realm. ext.)

 

One moment he is serious and the minute you ask him a serious question he turns around and answers you in a childish way and plays word games with his broken English on purpose as you said it.

 

My friend, my point was that If armenian historians lie about numbers, Turkish people wont believe them about genocide too. Turks are inclined to believe their own people(Like others.), so If they see even a minor lie, they will refuse to believe every truth.

 

I said before, I am against to accepting genocide but Turks should be aware of reality about genocide.(do your job fine, dont lie. So maybe some people will listen you.)

 

I think this will make them less nationalist. We go to far about nationalism(Infact we are edge of racism or fascism). Now, It is harming us. Infact I see turkish nationalism as biggest danger for Turkey. It jailed us inside of Turkey.

 

I have found similar fakers on other websites. These guys seem to be "Joe Turk," a mere citizen Turk when in reality they are pro-Turkish academic scholars from the US.

 

I dont think that I am from USA. I am sure It is easy to see my IP or location.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[neko]

I read history magazine published by him the Turkish Historian Union. 40.000 is his number.(Including all death of armenians.)

 

It was an interesting magazine. There was some document about returning of armenians.(Specially after the fall of young turks.) I am curious what happened them after they returned.

 

If the WW1 genocide of Turkey's Armenians is still difficult to be talk about in Turkey, then talking about what happened to the survivors in the post-WW1 period is completely taboo. This is because it exposes the direct involvement of the Turkish Republic in the Armenian genocide. For this period there are no excuses that Turkey can dream up, no hiding places for Turkey to escape to.

 

Armenians also don't seem very interested in exploring this period. Some prefer the sound-bite approach to history, and everything "1915" falls into that category. Maybe a few also realise that in the context of wanting official Turkish recognition of the Genocide, this post-WW1 period genocide should remain in darkness until the main 1915 events are admitted to. Turkey probably will not admit to the 1915 genocide if they see it will eventually lead to them having to acknowledge all of the horrendous crimes the Turkish state committed against Armenians into the 1920s.

[neko]

will you swear If I say I think that It is less than 1.500.000? Personally I dont care number much. It is like a lottery. I dont trust armenians like I dont trust halacoglu. My humble guess is more than 700.000 less than 1.000.000, but It is only a guess.

 

That's probably about right for the 1915/1916 years.

 

However, I think you might have understood by now - most Armenians here aren't really interested in seeing Turkish acknowledgement of the genocide on a personal level or at State level.

 

so noone returned? ok. It is not such important thing.

 

 

Actually a great many returned, the majority of those who survived the genocide returned or tried to.

 

 

[phantom22]

Hayvanoglu is a political mouthpiece, not a true historian. He operates like a politican not a historian.

 

How can one take this clown seriously as a historian? Even a Turk will have difficulty accepting this BS.

 

[DominO123]

If the WW1 genocide of Turkey's Armenians is still difficult to be talk about in Turkey, then talking about what happened to the survivors in the post-WW1 period is completely taboo. This is because it exposes the direct involvement of the Turkish Republic in the Armenian genocide. For this period there are no excuses that Turkey can dream up, no hiding places for Turkey to escape to.

 

Armenians also don't seem very interested in exploring this period. Some prefer the sound-bite approach to history, and everything "1915" falls into that category. Maybe a few also realise that in the context of wanting official Turkish recognition of the Genocide, this post-WW1 period genocide should remain in darkness until the main 1915 events are admitted to. Turkey probably will not admit to the 1915 genocide if they see it will eventually lead to them having to acknowledge all of the horrendous crimes the Turkish state committed against Armenians into the 1920s.

 

I agree, and this was the one thing which I have given significant time on, Turkey's involvement, and I think this should not be hidden under the carpet. Turkey will never recognize the genocide anyway, so why hidding that information?

[zurderer]

If the WW1 genocide of Turkey's Armenians is still difficult to be talk about in Turkey, then talking about what happened to the survivors in the post-WW1 period is completely taboo. This is because it exposes the direct involvement of the Turkish Republic in the Armenian genocide. For this period there are no excuses that Turkey can dream up, no hiding places for Turkey to escape to.

 

I agree. Infact that is why I believe(not know.) genocide thing. Because, If It is for security, after wars armenians should return their lands. It is not situation, Turkey did not let them return, take their land, and live at their cities. It is true, Turkey have not much place to hide.

 

However, I think you might have understood by now - most Armenians here aren't really interested in seeing Turkish acknowledgement of the genocide on a personal level or at State level.

 

In reality, I dont understand what is their aim.

 

Their aim is absolutely not return to their land. (Infact If I am armenian, my priority would be this.)

 

Money?(I think a lot armenians will kick me for this.)

 

To honour their ancestor?(I am not sure how their ancestors become proud If Turkey accept genocide forcefully or even peacifully.)

 

Revenge? Hmm, I dont think their leaders are not so stupid that they will seek revenge from turks.

 

So why the hell they are fighting for? They are wasting their energy for what reason?(Sensible reason.)

 

It looks like a little religious. I do this because this is right. I dont have any good reason but this is right. Anyway, This is their problem.

 

[Stormig]

Halacoglu wants to be like P.N. Oak when he grows up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purushottam_Nagesh_Oak Too bad Oaks deceased recently at such an age - wouldn't it have been cool to see the two of them side by side on some show? Edited December 30, 2007 by Stormig