Armenian word for Corruption

[Proud EXPAT]

What is the Armenian word for corruption?

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Corruption = pchatsum, aylaservatsutiun, kasharakerutiun

Edited September 13, 2004 by Proud EXPAT

[Arpa]

Corruption = pchatsum, aylaservatsutiun, kasharakerutiun

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Thank you Proud Ex...

I have known those terms, but you may have noticed that my question was rather rhetorical as none of those terms reflect the all encompensing meaning of "corruption".

The fiirst implies the corruption or rotting of organic material, the second implies to corruption of purity. The last one may address the real issue but it addresses only one aspect of the phenomenon, i.e. bribery. We know that "corruption" goes beyond that .

It is almost worth to start a separate linguistic thread about the word. To start, some monographs treating "kasharq" do eventually refer one to another monograph of "korruptsia".

 

I searched high and low with no success to see what term the Armenian language publications were using. Perhaps you have access to them.

 

PS. Oh! I forgot to mention that in general I don't like "utyun". I have spoken about this on several occasions. It is not only suspect that it is of native Armenian origin it also makes words unnecessarily longer and more cumbrsome. i.e. How does "kasharakerutyun" (can we make it any longer )accomplish when a mere "kasharq" would?

 

To see an anecdote about "utyun" go to Humor section.

Edited September 14, 2004 by Arpa

[Twilight Bark]

does "kasharakerutyun" (can we make it any longer  )accomplish when  a mere "kasharq" would?

While I agree with you that we should get out of the pretentious and stiff habit of making up mile-long words, we should not lose nuances in trying make the langauge "cool". The first word is bribery, while the second one is "bribe". We don't want to lose the expressive power.

Edited September 14, 2004 by Twilight Bark

[Arpa]

While I agree with you that we should get out of the pretentious and stiff habit of making up mile-long words, we should not lose nuances in trying make the langauge "cool".  The first word is bribery, while the second one is "bribe".  We don't want to lose the expressive power.

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Good point Steve.

 

As to nuances ,you will note that I made sure to spell the word ending in Q which is one of the classical forms to make it plural that we still use. In fact the root word of "kashar/bribe" is seldom used in the singular except in compound words such as "kasharakeroum", literally "eating a bribe". When we say "eating" there are many euphemism for the term, the most common being "to toss a bone to/at (the dog)"**. In some provincial dialects the word "krzon" ((a bone to chew) is also used as a synonym to "kashar".

When I used the plural form I had in mind that it will encompass all the elements of corruption. You name them. What with bribery, extortion , coersion, blackmail, official pressure...... what else?

In short all the fiscal ills.

Let me be the first to nominate" kasharQ", ending in the pluralizing Q as an all inclusive term to impart all the ills that the English "corruption" implies.

And... the hell with "-UTYUN"!! We can always use that other noun forming ending "kasharakerum" if need be

.

I'm sure even Harut-yun will agree.

:)

 

** Remind me to tell an anecdote about that.

[Proud EXPAT]

I searched high and low with no success to see what term the Armenian language publications were using. Perhaps you have access to them.

 

Arpa you know they LOVE using Russian terms here, so they usually call it "coraptzia" in Armenia (don't mind the spelling.) Don't know what the publications say, but I'm sure they use this Russian term.

 

Did we not have corruption a couple or more thousands of years ago when the Armenian language created??? I dunno.

[nairi]

Arpa, Ara mentioned this a while back:

 

A curious detail: Armenians, it seems, don't have a word for corruption, or, if they do, they don't use it. What they say is "corrooptsia," which sounds even more shady in its Russian variant. And corrooptsia, very much like Mark Twain's weather, is something everyone talks about but no one does a damn thing.

We too have corrooptsia here in the Diaspora, of course, but we also have a vociferous contingent of hirelings who rise to the defense of their sources of income whenever anyone dares to mention the word.

Why should things be different there?

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=44...indpost&p=74102

 

We generally use koghoptum/koghoptel/koghopt at my house even though I know it more generally means thievery, but doesn't it reflect something of corruption anyway? There's also hapshtakum.

[Arpa]

Arpa, Ara mentioned this a while back:

 

A curious detail: Armenians, it seems, don't have a word for corruption, or, if they do, they don't use it. What they say is "corrooptsia," which sounds even more shady in its Russian variant.

=====

We generally use koghoptum/koghoptel/koghopt at my house even though I know it more generally means thievery, but doesn't it reflect something of corruption anyway? There's also hapshtakum.

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Thank you Nairi,

 

Before I forget. Can you move this topic to the language section with only the relevant posts under a subject topic such as "korruptsia" or such since we are not doing justice to SEVAN.

You will notice that a few posts up this thread I did mention that some monographs refer one to to another monograph "korruptsia".I don't read Ara, I have not read him in quite sometime since, I may sometimes eat leftovers or eat a hot dog once in a while but not day after day after day. It is bad for one'e health and wellbeing.

 

As to the other words you suggest. Very interesting, I already suspect that we will run into some surprises. Even though I can anticipate what they will end up to be I'll have to look them up. They will open a whole other can of worms. I mean worms. I find "hapshtakum" particularly fascinating. Can you guess why?

 

I will hold future posts until it is moved to its proper subject topic.

Edited September 15, 2004 by Arpa

[Harut]

what does ԶԵՂԾՈՒՄ/ԶԵՂԾԱՆՔ mean?

[Harut]

another word that comes to mind is ՊԻՂԾ for corrupted.

[Harut]

another word that comes to mind is ՊԻՂԾ for corrupted.

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well... maybe not quite so.

[MosJan]

isk draMaShorth / Dramashortutyun ~? ~ Kasharaker/utyun

[Arpa]

Thank you Nairi,

----

As to the other words you suggest. Very interesting, I already suspect that we will run into some surprises. Even though I can anticipate what they will end up to be I'll have to look them up. They will open a whole other can of worms. I mean worms. I find "hapshtakum" particularly fascinating. Can you guess why? 

 

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Did you guess why?

It is all shrouded in another topic - "Hee or Yee".

I had never given it a thought, but the minute I saw the word the "bulb" lighted/lit.

It is still a mystery why many words beginning with vowels, in particular those beginning with the letter Ayb are preceeded with the letter "hee". We have spoken about "haj" as in "hajogh/successsful" and "aj/right(side)" and Aghtamar/Haghtamar (haght-amur/big and firm).

For some reason, it seems there was a tendency during classical times to preceed initial vowels with the "hee", examples- haynzham, horzham etc.

Hapshtakum is another of those where a hee, (of course those addicted to Soviet orthography will not recognize as all hee's are converted to "ho") is added to an otherwise recognizable Armenian word "ap" to mean hand, palm, fist, paw. In other words "hapshtakum" would have originally been "apshtakum", that is to manhandle (a redundancy(?) as "man/manos" as in "manual" actually means "hand". In fact "hapshtakum/apshtakum" could also be expressed as "dzer ktsel", to manipulate, to handle, but the way we use it, in its sinister sense, it is rather "to paw", to molest, to prey. One good eaxample will be - we call birds of prey, the likes of condors and vultures- "hapshtakich trchunner" (also gishatich=eaters of carcasses and carions).

 

Feel free to "(h)apshtakel indz" but keep your grubby paws off. :)

 

I wonder if "koghoptel" has to do with "kogh"=side,rib or "gogh" as in "gogh- avazak"= thief.

[Harut]

http://www.antitrustviewpoint.com/ceeli/co.../psas_2003.html

[Arpa]

We have been searching for the Armenian word for "corruption".

See what is being said.

=======

YOUTH HAVE BAD HABIT OF LEARNING FROM ADULTS

Haik Aramyan

 

Lragir, Armenia

Nov 7 2006

 

Ararat Mahtesyan, a high-ranking police official stated November 3 that

all of us, the whole society is to blame as the system of values of

the youth is becoming increasingly inclined to the "criminal world,

criminal approaches". The deputy chief of the Police was right,

it is the fault of everyone. The youth, which is not only our

present but also our future, has a "bad habit" - they learn from

grown-ups around them. They finish school, try to enter a university

or college, and afterwards they want to have a job, live a good and

full life. And what does a young man standing at the threshold of life

learn as an adult? For instance, he can see what is going on at the

universities. Then he witnesses the situation in the period of the

call-up. Then he learns about the ways how one can set up a business

or get a placement. He can see, for instance, how the law enforcement

agencies, the representatives of government agencies work, who often

deal with the representatives of the "criminal world", accompany them

or guarantee their security. He can see that there are privileged and

"second grade" citizens, there are people who do not obey the law, and

people who are cheated and robbed in the direct and indirect senses

of the word every day, placing the responsibilty for the life of the

country on their shoulders. What does a young man who is not a member

of the privileged class do after witnessing and understanding all these

things? (Especially that all this starts as early as at school.) He has

to go away or get used to this situation. The other right way is, of

course, that he must fight for his rights and welfare. In this sense,

however, there is still a long way to go. But presently the government

and the political forces of Armenia have established a system which

resembles that of the "criminal world", as Mr. Mahtesyan put it. The

mechanisms of black budget, extortion and blackmail function perfectly

within this system. The criminalization of the political and civil

life is underway, and efforts are made to introduce these mechanisms

everywhere, especially among young people. Baze Gatherings, youth wings

of political parties and other bureaucratic mechanisms are designed to

"spoil" the youth, pointing to the "right way" for them.

 

What does a young man, whose sensitive and pure soul craves for

justice, have to do in this situation? According to the adults,

justice is an abstract notion, however, it should be there. In the

meantime, the widely preached values of the mysterious, romantic

"criminal world" start attracting the young man. Everything is simple

and clear in this world, which is wrapped in the veil of mystery.

 

Everyone is equal there, there is "justice", scoundrels are punished:

this is their perception. And where else can a young man turn his

face? It should be noted that the system established in Armenia

presently is attempting at attracting young people into this system

of values by their everyday activities and propaganda. This is an

easier way to sustain their privileged status.

[Sako_Aper]

That is a very good article.

[SAS]

Ժամանակին nostalgia թարգմանեցին կարոտԱԽՏ:Ըստ այդմ, corruption- կաշառԱԽՏ+ կաշառակեր:

 

Պայքար կաշառախտի դեմ, կաշառախտված իշխանություն, կաշառակեր պաշտոնյա...

[Harut]

Ժամանակին nostalgia թարգմանեցին կարոտԱԽՏ:Ըստ այդմ, corruption- կաշառԱԽՏ+ կաշառակեր:

 

Պայքար կաշառախտի դեմ, կաշառախտված իշխանություն, կաշառակեր պաշտոնյա...

 

հետաքրքիր է, բայց իմ կարծիքով, կոռուպցիան, այնպես ինչպես օգտագործվում է հասարակական ատյաններում, ներառում է ավելին քան հասարակ կաշառակերությունը...

[RemainFaithful]

Corruption is Pdadzoutyoun - Փտածութիւն

[ED]

Corruption is Pdadzoutyoun - Փտածութիւն

 

 

Փտածութիւն is Corrosion

 

by the way, Բարի Գալուստ Հայ ֆորում

[Arpa]

None of the above refer to the Armenian word “nekh/նեխ/նէխ/նեխած”. I can’t find reference to it, but we all know it means “smelly/rotten/corrupt((ed).

Then, how about NEKH//ՆԷԽ/ ՆԵԽ for “corrupt?

After al what can be more corrupt than “նեխած/nekhats!!

Plese forgive me if you can't follow my Eng-Arm word games.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Arpa

[ED]

Նեխ(վ)ած-Rotten

Փտած-Corroded

Կաշառված-Corrupted

[ED]

I think all this traslations are correct Arpa

[Harut]

i don't agree with any of the definitions of corruption so far...

կաշառք is bribe, and կաշառակերություն is bribary... corruption is more than bribary...

[Arpa]

i don't agree with any of the definitions of corruption so far...

կաշառք is bribe, and կաշառակերություն is bribary... corruption is more than bribary...

I second the motion.

The Armenian word for "corrupt-ion" is NEKH/ՆԵԽ, rot, and anything in between points to specific cases of, be it the traffic police stopping you to subsidize their meager income or the government official looking under the table for "papakh".. rottennance... "NEKHQ"?

Could it be that those of us that rather do things in a corrupt way encourage the “culture”?

The traffic cop stopped us on our way to Ejmiatsin. He checked Armen’s license and registration, all in order and let us proceed with no problem, no bribe or any begging. What if Armen’s license had expired and his car registration lapsed. How many drivers have expired licenses and lapsed registrations? Hoe do they still operate and drive? Bribery?

There will be as many corrupt cops and bureaucrats as there are corrupt citizens who would rather do their business through the back door rather than, say, renew their licenses and registrations in due time.

If the citizens of Yerevan Province do really and sincerely wish to do away with corruption they should also learn to do their business through the front door, not the back, in the open, not in darkened room.

For every giver there is a taker and visa versa.

Do you think Armenia is the capital of the corrupt world?

Have you been reading about the Abramoff and other rats' sagas?

Edited November 22, 2006 by Arpa

[Harut]

as i was arguing in this thread, when we are encountering a new thing, a concept, etc., i think it is absolutly unnecessary to try to name them with words that are literal translations of words already used in other languages... in this case we have a phenomenon that we need to name... it need not be a base for us that they refer to it as 'corruption' in english... it could help, but we don't have to literally translate it, as that word itself was borowed from the dictionary to name this phenomenon and was not a original word for this phenomenon... so, that word was the best suited for it in english, but it may not be in armenian... they may be a better suited word in armenian to name this phenomenon, which is NOT the direct, literal translation of the word 'corruption'...

 

words, such as այլասերում [aylaserum], ապականում [apakanum] are much better words to be used in this case, even though they may not be exact translations of the word 'corruption'...