America, America...

[gamavor]

I thought about this long time ago. America surely became home of the largest Armenian Diaspora( after Russia, maybe). We know when, how and why. Armenia in the past decade went through war, severe earthquake that devastated 30% of the local economy. Once being known as the Hong Kong of the Soviet Union, Armenia has experienced the worst economic downfall since maybe the early years of the last century. Many left, most of the time the most educated, ambitious, able and career oriented people. People, who in every society are the motor of the development. No one should ever dare to blame them, because usually these people are the finest patriots, not Internet Lions, but people who really care and want to help. Their decision is the hardest one can make, but the price is worthy only if.....

 

Now before you continue the sentence lets make this topic a place where we can share our experiences.

 

This is from Groong and it touches upon many issues that many candidate immigrants face, without having knowledge of the language, culture and the social order in general in America.

 

 

Ridgway rallies around Armenians

By Nancy Lofholm, Denver Post Staff Writer (nlofholm@denverpost.com)

 

The Denver Post

Friday, August 20, 2004

 

In the bureaucratic view of the Department of Homeland Security, the

six despondent Armenians crowded together on a rose-colored couch in

this small Western Slope town have no right to be here.

 

They have no passports, no green cards and no valid visas. And they

have no right to stay in the United States.

 

But in the eyes of residents of this one-stoplight town now working

to protect the Sargsyans from deportation, they are hardworking,

principled, good-hearted assets to the community and to America.

 

"To me, they are better citizens than most of us citizens," said Rob

Hunter, minister at Ridgway Community Church.

 

By the end of September, two members of the family - patriarch Ruben

and youngest daughter Meri - are due to be deported to Armenia,

where they say they face persecution and possibly death at the hands

of the Russian mafia. They are blamed in Armenia for a scam they say

was carried out by a former family friend.

 

The remaining family members may face the same fate, but they have

more time to appeal. Even if they win, however, a family bound tightly

by tragedy over the past decade will be split apart.

 

"It's like life stopped," said son Gevorg, a 20-year-old student at

the University of Colorado.

 

The saga that landed the Sargsyans in western Colorado and in

immigration limbo began in 1994 when Nvart Sargsyan met an American in

the Armenian capital of Yerevan. She was 19 and, by her own admission,

naive.

 

From there, the details of the Sargsyan's story are impossible to

verify, but they and others have sworn to them in immigration

proceedings as they battled U.S. efforts to deport them:

 

Vaughn Huckfeldt, 53, was a professor at the American University of

Armenia who also claimed to be a well-to-do minister with a nice home

in Colorado. He wore a clerical collar and a large cross. He asked

Nvart to marry him on their third date.

 

Huckfeldt began telling other Armenians that he could obtain visas

for them to go to the United States, the Sargsyans said. He collected

more than $1,000 each from 10 to 15 families, they said, then left

the country, taking along an 8- months-pregnant Nvart.

 

Back in Armenia, people who had given Huckfeldt money were hounding

Nvart's family, accusing them of being part of a scam and demanding

they pay the money back. Eventually, some of them hired Russian

mobsters to threaten the Sargsyans, who sold nearly everything they

had to try and repay the money they say Huckfeldt took from their

neighbors.

 

Finally, the Sargsyans said, Huckfeldt provided them with visas to

join Nvart in the U.S. They were student visas, but the family members

were unaware that they were required to attend school here - not work.

 

With the support of her family, Nvart filed for divorce, claiming that

Huckfeldt had abused her throughout the marriage. Several people in

town supported her claim, but Huckfeldt was never convicted of a crime.

 

Huckfeldt responded by writing to immigration authorities, claiming

the family was in the country fraudulently on student visas.

 

Attempts to locate Huckfeldt through relatives, ex- wives and former

associates were unsuccessful. An ex- wife said he is living in Latvia.

 

Former Ridgway Marshal Sherm Williams said he had fielded several

complaints over the years about Huckfeldt, ranging from unpaid

loans to bad-check allegations. But while Huckfeldt lost an array of

small-claims suits over the years, the former professor has not been

convicted of a crime in town.

 

Meanwhile, the Sargsyans have spent thousands on lawyers and court

fees - money the whole family earned doing jobs few others wanted or

could handle.

 

"They are some of the hardest working, finest people I have ever

known," said Deadra Paxton, a waitress who has been acquainted with

the family since they came to Ridgway.

 

Friends in Ouray County didn't know how dire the Sargsyans' situation

was until family matriarch Susan recently broke down as she informed

Ridgway businessman Pete Whiskeman she wouldn't be able to clean for

him anymore.

 

Whiskeman and friend Kelvin Kent jumped into action, and a town

joined them. In just one day, townspeople donated $1,500 to a fund

for a family that has never asked for handouts throughout their ordeal.

 

"Unfortunately, I think what we have here is a prime example of

overzealous and work- burdened federal judges operating under extremely

harsh and generalized rules of homeland security," Kent said.

 

As they count down the family's dwindling days together, the Sargsyans

say they still have a hard time believing that in America there won't

be justice. They haven't completely given up on that hope.

 

"We are waiting for a miracle," said Gevorg, "like we were waiting

for a miracle in Armenia."

 

 

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,3...346433,00.html#

 

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg92880.html

Edited September 9, 2004 by gamavor

[Arpa]

Hey Gams!

What do you say?

Shall we pack our bags and get the hell out of here?

My father had a word of wisdom that he had heard from his elders; " Get the hell out of the shadow of the minaretv/mosque"!

That is what we thought we were doing when we came to Amerikaka.

And now! I have never been so close to a minaret even when I lived in a so-called Islamic country.

Now that we think we are out of the shadow of the minaret, they are cropping up at every corner of Main Street USA.

 

Perhaps we should go back where we came from and blow every minaret within a a radius of 1000 miles to the moon.

 

Remember this thread?

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3347&hl=

 

The son of bitches! Why are they coming to America after they made it impossible for us to live in that hellhole they created?!!

If tjeir intention was to come to America then why did they murder us and sole our properties?

 

THE SHUNSHANORDIS!!!

[nairi]

My father had a word of wisdom that he had heard from his elders; " Get the hell out of the shadow of the minaretv/mosque"!

That is what we thought we were doing when we came to Amerikaka.

And now! I have never been so close to a minaret even when I lived in a so-called Islamic country.

Now that we think we are out of the shadow of the minaret, they are cropping up at every corner of Main Street USA.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Sounds like something my father would say/has said... "We came to Europe to escape the Muslims... Turns out that they are worse here than they are in their own countries."

[Nakharar]

Rings star sparks rumpus over race

 

David Smith, arts and media correspondent

Sunday February 1, 2004

The Observer

 

The stars of The Lord of the Rings films have been feted on red carpets around the world and are now tipped for Oscars glory. One of their number, however, finds himself a hero to a less desirable audience: the far-right British National Party.

John Rhys-Davies, who plays warrior dwarf Gimli in the blockbuster trilogy, has been spearheading a BNP campaign without his knowledge following an interview in which he claimed Western civilisation was under threat because white Europeans produce fewer babies than Muslims.

 

The actor said Europe faced a 'demographic catastrophe' in the next 20 to 30 years when indigenous populations are outnumbered by Islamic immigrants. His remarks have been seized on by the BNP, which has distributed a leaflet that hijacks J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, recently voted the nation's favourite book, as a parable for the 'great real-life battle to save the West'.

 

Only weeks after Robert Kilroy-Silk was dropped by the BBC for attacking Arabs in a newspaper column, Rhys-Davies last night stood by his remarks, demanding: 'Are we willing to be part of a Muslim-controlled Europe?' - but disassociated himself from the BNP.

 

The Welsh actor, who also appeared in the Indiana Jones films and the Bond movie The Living Daylights, made his original comments in an interview with American journalists at the time of the latest film's premiere. 'There is a demographic catastrophe happening in Europe that nobody wants to talk about, that we daren't bring up because we are so cagey about not offending people racially,' he said.

 

'By 2020, 50 percent of the children in Holland under the age of 18 will be of Muslim descent. Western Europeans are not having any babies. The population of Germany at the end of the century is going to be 56 per cent of what it is now. The population of France, 52 per cent of what it is now. There is a change happening in the very complexion of Western civilisation in Europe that we should think about at least and argue about.

 

'If it just means the replacement of one genetic stock with another genetic stock, that does not matter too much. But if it involves the replacement of Western civilisation by a different civilisation with different cultural values, then it is something we really ought to discuss - because, goddammit, I am for dead white male culture.'

 

In a later interview, Rhys-Davies added: 'I do not want to see a society where, should I ever have any, my granddaughters have their fingernails pulled out because they are wearing nail varnish. Do not brand me a racist because I am certainly not. But I will stand by this: Western Christianised Europe has values and experiences worth defending.'

 

His views were rapidly appropriated by the BNP for a leaflet downloaded and distributed via its website. It quotes Rhys-Davies beside a picture of him as Gimli and urges: 'Whether you think of yourself as a Rider of Rohan, as an Elf or as a simple, fun-loving Hobbit, the dark days that Tolkien foresaw are almost upon us, and your duty is clear: Join the British National Party and our great real-life battle to save the West!'

 

Speaking from Los Angeles yesterday, Rhys-Davies shrugged off the row and stuck to his guns: 'There is a radical plunge in indigenous populations unequalled since the Black Death. The baby-boomers are ageing and the families are not producing enough children. The immigrant population, being younger and committed to family life, are having a higher proportion of babies. If you project these lines into the future, we're talking about a Europe that will be predominantly Muslim in the next two to three decades.'

 

He continued: 'You can only welcome it if you're a fundamentalist Muslim, not even if you're a moderate Muslim. I have a lot of respect for aspects of Islam but I would not choose to live in a theocratically organised Muslim society.'

 

Inayat Bunglawala of the Muslim Council of Britain said: 'John Rhys-Davies's remarks are distressing because what's needed is not further polarisation between people. It's almost a mirror image of remarks by extremists in our community who can only see evil in the West. It can only be seen as trying to incite people against the Muslim community. Muslims have come to love this country as much as anyone else. They are proud to be British. Mr Rhys-Davies has done Muslims a disservice by portraying them as invading barbarian hordes. His status as a star of The Lord of the Rings will give him credibility and it's a shame the BNP have been so quick off the mark to exploit his remarks. He might not be a racist but his comments will be used by racists.'

 

Chris Myant, director of the Commission for Racial Equality in Wales, said: 'This way of talking is reminiscent of Enoch Powell, whose words give a veneer of seeming respectability to racist and hateful ideas.'

 

Ian Collier of the Tolkien Society said: 'The Tolkien Society does not in any way condone the use of his works to support messages of racial hate, just as Tolkien himself objected strongly to the Nazis. We are saddened to see this kind of misrepresentation.'

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,11374,1136531,00.html

[bellthecat]

But in the eyes of residents of this one-stoplight town now working

to protect the Sargsyans from deportation, they are hardworking,

principled, good-hearted assets to the community and to America.

 

A town full of gullible simpletons if they believe this fake sob-story. Snake-oil sellers would have a field-day in Ridgway.

[gamavor]

Well, if they are hardworking, kind-hearted and asset to the community, I don't know, but at least the rest of the facts except the Russian mob thing seems believable.

[bellthecat]

What sort of "hardworking, kind-hearted and asset to the community" parents would allow their naive 19 year old daughter to marry a complete stranger 34 years her senior and allow her to be taken abroad - the sort of family that will "sell" their daughter for the chance of a visa to America, that's what sort.

What sort of "hardworking, kind-hearted and asset to the community" people would be so stupid as to not know that a "student visa" is for people wanting to study in America. A bunch of liars and chancers, that's what sort.

 

And stopping illegal immigrants abusing visa regulations to gain entry to a country is nothing to do with "homeland security".

[Boghos]

Transforming some small time issue into a philosophical discussion on the nature of the people involved is just senseless. Judging at distance is easy but hardly with any susbstance. Edited September 11, 2004 by Boghos

[America-Hye]

My parents came to America, went to school here, joined American social organizations and blended in with the community. They spoke Armenian at home (no my mother did not speak Syriac, even her 1/2 Assyrian father never spoke Syriac) and sent us to Armenain school. We were raised in an odar Protestant church. They did not try to transform America into another Armenia.

 

Today, I see headscarfs of Muslim women everywhere. I wonder whether some of these people are are Azeris or Turks. Every few weeks, I see some German tourists glaring at me with hatred in their eyes. I am so very assimilated. What gives here????

[Arpa]

They spoke Armenian at home (no my mother did not speak Syriac, even her 1/2 Assyrian father never spoke Syriac) and sent us to Armenain school.

style_images/master/snapback.png

Is that because he did not know Syriac?

 

Many Assyrians in Syria and Lebanon who had migrated with the Armenians after the Genocide all spoke Armenian that sounded a little funny to us. Besides it being in the Urfa and Tigranakert dialect they also used many Arabic and other words. Many lived in enclaves where they were the majority where one would hear that funny Armenian in the streets. They used Syriac in Church just like us using Grabar but very few if any knew Syriac. At some point there was an attempt to revive the language but it did not go too far as by then they were fast adopting Arabic as their common language. In fact many of their intellectuals (I can name names) were totally immersed in Armenian and many of them knew the Armenian language better than some of our so-called linguists. In other words, given the chance, were they welcomed by our xenophobic purists they would have totally converted to Armenian. As is there was a high degree of intermarriage of either gender.

They also had Christian(Personal) names like Yacub, Yousef, Butros, Boulos, Abdo Elias, Matta, Markos etc. all in the Syriac/Aramaic forms.

Edited September 11, 2004 by Arpa

[America-Hye]

Arpa,

 

You have answered your own question. Still in the homeland, he became assimilated into the Armenian community. His mother was Armenian and he married an Armenian. Al that remained was his surname.

[gamavor]

What sort of "hardworking, kind-hearted and asset to the community" people would be so stupid as to not know that a "student visa" is for people wanting to study in America. A bunch of liars and chancers, that's what sort.

 

And stopping illegal immigrants abusing visa regulations to gain entry to a country is nothing to do with "homeland security".

 

Homeland Security is basically the INS.

 

As to them being liars and chancers, well if the British Ambassador in Yerevan can be a chancer and hypocrat why not ordinary citizens? Wait, aren't Ambassadors suppose to represent their respective country?