shiner Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 Do the Jihadists and Fundamentalists realize that in an all out jihad against the "infidels", the "infidels" have the ability to wipe out the whole Muslim world off the face of this earth? Its like me going up to a guy with a machine gun and saying I'm going to kill him in a fist fight! Are the Muslim radicals that ignorant or are they counting on the "infidels" to be "nice"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 I personally care about Americans as much as they care about Armenia. No less, no more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted August 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, but Americans as a whole don't even know Armenia exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 Ergo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted August 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 But on the contrary you know the US exists because you are here taking advantage of the opportunities it offers you, so it's not the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 I work, they pay me! What advantage??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 I work, they pay me! What advantage??? Exactly, there's nothing to be so grateful of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted August 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 (edited) Just the fact that you have a place to work and make money is a MAJOR advantage. Furthermore it is the ONLY advantage that has made others leave their countries and come here (but it's a huge one) Edited August 28, 2004 by shiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 Just the fact that you have a place to work and make money is a MAJOR advantage. ....for that advantage he pays taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted August 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 Yeah but there are places where he would not have it even if he was willing to pay taxes. Otherwise why does he (or anyone) choose this place in particular. I don't think it's random. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 you are right, its not random - but the USA has a lot to gain from someone like gamavor ( ). Here you have a highly qualified person, whose education was paid by another country, comes in, learns the language, starts paying taxes, spends hs earnings locally thereby creating even more jobs and hence more taxpayers - I know its a simplistic way of putting it, but people to country are like a resource, not unlike oil and gas etc. The more, the better, and the more educated even more better, escpessially if you dont have to pay for their education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted August 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 (edited) Accelerated, You are right. The US definitely benefits from immigrants. They are usually hard working and contribute to this country as they integrate to it. They especially benefit from intellectuals, experts etc. But the irony is that those intellectuals and experts also want to come here (and other really developed countries) to maximize their talents. So both parties benefit. And both parties should acknowledge this. There is no point in coming here to maximize your talents while denigrating the society that has given you those opportunities. Yes it is true you are giving back through your abilities. Like I (and you) said both parties benefit, and neither should be ungrateful to the other. That would be ignorant. Edited August 29, 2004 by shiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 So both parties benefit. And both parties should acknowledge this. yes, pretty much agreed with everything you have written, but what I am trying to emphasise is that Gamavor is not indebted to the US, because the US was not doing him a favour when they let him in since they were getting something in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted August 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 (edited) Accel, I agree, he is not indebted. But the point I was emphasizing is that he (and others) are here by their own choice, and they are staying also by their own choice, so there must be something attractive keeping them here. Thus it does not make sense to completely ignore this factor. But I think you realize this too, so we are on the same page. Edited August 29, 2004 by shiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 wow, I think we have come to an agreement - two Armenians sharing ONE opinion, in other words: a monumental event! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 Speaking of “jihad” Shiner, what does it exactly mean anyways? A holly war within a context of religion? I never understood the origin of it. Jihad, and if I’m correct, and I don’t care because sounds right, why not “jihad” those idiots in Washington, and especially in white house! Confront things that’s essential and necessary, social security, Medicare, education, etc. jihad to what? Against whom? As far as Arabs concern since when Arabs hated Americans? I don’t know. Do you? Welcome to a superficial. Jihad my arse, fear factor and manipulation of peoples minds, investing in generation for the corporate America. Things are not what they are, but what they appear to be! Eat more freedom fries and elect Zionist Christian president to keep fear factor intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 Ed, "jihad" does not mean "holy war" or any. Even is it is used as that by even the speakers of that language, it simply means "struggle/payqar/endeavor". It is not a new word as you will see, Raffi had used it more than a 100 years ago. Here is what was written some time ago. http://hyeforum.com/index.php?act=Search&C...8&highlite=jhad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted August 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 Edward, The only definition I know is the popular one you stated at the beginning of your post, basically "holy war (within the context of religion)". I as an average citizen don't know anything that goes on behing closed doors of cabinet meetings, and what everyone's ulterior motives truly are. Yeah I watch the news almost everyday, but that version is not necessarily reflective of what truly goes on. Even so I don't think (though not 100% sure) that the whole Muslim problem is made up. The point is 9/11 did happen (and I don't think it was planned by Bush or any Americans). Two planes recently went down in Russia, Spain suffered a major bombing, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and many other organizations exist, Iran is a messed up fundamentalist state with bad things on its mind, there are countless Muslim fanatics running around everywhere. Those are facts, and they should not be ignored in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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