Arpa Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 There really is no Armenian word to impart the meaning of cursing, cussing or swearing as loosely used to describe rude and sexually tainted language. As a matter of fact the above English words don't either, since just as in the Armenian all those words don't refer to blasphemy, i.e. using unholy language but rather "to swear" as in "to vow". The Armenian equivalents would rather be "yerdvel/yerdun anel". No wonder the majority of the so called cuss words and phrases that we often use are of foreign origin, mostly Turkish. I have heard that the Turkish language is richest in that respect. I have also heard that Russian is not too far behind. No wonder that we had to borrow a word to impart the meaning of "uncivil language", "kufrel/kufur anel" which in fact is from the Arabic based on "kufr/kafir", once again to mean "unholy/infidel" language. The most common Armenian word is "hayhoyanq". Axel, The meaning was quite clear to me as I thought it had some relation with the latin "cunnus" from which the french "con" is derived as well as the english word I will not write here . The question is: which one came first, latin or persian? Maybe Arpa knows the answer to this etymological question with far-reaching implications... Yes, Ajarian does say the above only as a side under his monograph for "qnel" to sleep. He says it ever so shyly and cautiously with no further explanation, except that he intimates that we sometimes use it to mean "merdzenal", to approach. This is the first I heard this word used in that context. But it seems like it is somehow common. Once again I feel like this subject should be treated. Please, using as civil language as possible. As above, hayhoyanq does not really mean rude language, it is an onomatopoeic/bnadzayn (based on sound) word meaning "noise" much as "toh ou poh" is. I will at some later time list all the Armenian words that infer impolite and at times unholy language. Coming back to the quote above. It is true that those Latin words mean what it is inferred, based on "cunnus", the external female genitalia (from which the rude and at times debasing English word for it as well). However I doubt it. As I said above Ajarian all but eludes the subject. If it were the case then we would have spelled that word with "G" rather than with "Q". (I'm no really sure how it is really spelled as there is no reference to it anywhere). I had come to the conclusion long before I became aware of Ajarian's elusive tretment of the word that it may have been based on the Farsi "qun", by now we already know that it refers to the lower back, or more specifically to "rectum". Why would this be the root? More often than not the word is used as an insult. It is not used to describe the loving heterosexual act of procreation. It is tantamount to rape. We know that when that word is used towards one's female relative it does not infer "love" but rather hate and insult. Let me stop here and give us time to see how many euphemisms we can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Arpa, not sure but I think Slavs also borrowed from Arabs - the "main" curss word In Arabic as far as I know is 'ib.e' and in Slavonic is 'eb.ne'. Sorry, this is not me, this is some another Gamavor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted June 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Arpa, not sure but I think Slavs also borrowed from Arabs - the "main" curss word In Arabic as far as I know is 'ib.e' and in Slavonic is 'eb.ne'. Sorry, this is not me, this is some another Gamavor I didn't know that. Now that you mention, I'm pretty sure they learned it from the Ottoman Turks. The Turks use it freely, even then I don't know its exact meaning. It is based on the Arabic "ibn", son (of). I don't really remember the Arabs using it, even though they have many phrases using ibn.... such and such. My guess is that it is a Turkish creation/modification. As to its meaning, again my guess is that addding the -eh feminizing suffix, i.e changing a male son to a effeminate/female son it is meant to insult one's manliness/masculinity. You can imagine the rest. Maybe Joseph P. can shed better light on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Հիշոց (hishoc), or as I heard at home: հուշունց (hushunc). Both verbs are with տալ (tal): hishoc/hushunc tal, meaning հայհոյել (hayhoyel). I'm sure you noticed Arpa that there's a hay in hayhoyel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted June 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Հիշոց (hishoc), or as I heard at home: հուշունց (hushunc). Both verbs are with տալ (tal): hishoc/hushunc tal, meaning հայհոյել (hayhoyel). I'm sure you noticed Arpa that there's a hay in hayhoyel... Yes, hishoc is one of them. There are several other synonyms, and as promised above I will gather them. As to "hay" in hayhoyel, I had noticed that for quite some time and I was waiting for comments like yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted June 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Hishots, oushouts(q) is mentioned several times usually with a qualifier as "barbar/provincial/dialect". It seems many do use it in one form or other all the way from Agoulis to Zeitun. There is no extensive writing about it except that Ajarian mentions it as an aside under the monograph of "hishel" to remember, and the "oushots" variation of it as "housh/oush" (consciouness) being based on "hish". How it would mean hayhoyanq is beyond me except that it may be another onomatopoeic word, based on sound, i.e. under the breath. Below most of the synonyms of hayhoyanq from Soukiasian. Note that I transcribed their Soviet orthography to the Mesropian. I am not sure if this will be visible to all as I am using the AM NLS font. I could never install Unicode to enable me to write with it, even though my attempt did enable me to read. I gave up. It seems like my system does not have the option of World languages, i.e it does not give me the "user preference". I hope some one can convert it to Unicode. I can't make use of Azat's converter either. Btw. Nairi, you said you figured how. What system is it? When I copy and paste it reverts back to gibberish. гÛÑáÛ³Ýù£ гÛÑáÛáõÃÇõÝ, Éáõï³Ýù, ÛÇßáó, ѳÛÑáÛ³µ³ÝáõÃÇõÝ, ½³½ñ³µ³ÝáõÃÇõÝ, ½³½ñ³ËáëáõÃÇõÝ, ÛÇßáó³ïõáõÃÇõÝ, ³Õ³Õ³Ýù, Ïé³ÅÙáõÝù, áõßáõÝó, »Õµ³Ýù, í³Ûñ³Ñ³ãáõÃÇõÝ, í³Ûñ³Ñ³ãáó Հայհոյանք։ Հայհոյութիւն, լուտանք, յիշոց, հայհոյաբանութիւն, զազրաբանութիւն, զազրախոսութիւն, յիշոցատւութիւն, աղաղանք, կռաժմունք, ուշունց, եղբանք, վայրահաչութիւն, վայրահաչոց As to "qufur" and "qfrel" none of the sources treat it in full, i.e a legitimate Armenian word, understandably, it being Arabic/Turkish. Even though Soukiasian does not include it as a synonym it, oddly enough, lists it in Q section and as "qfrel" and advises to go to hayhoyel. PS. I can't an explanation to "eghbanq" either, escept that we know that "banq" is the plural of "ban/word". Is "krazhmounq" from the Russian? added unicode font -- nairi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Arpa, I added the unicode font in your post. It's Harut's converter here: http://s90830795.onlinehome.us/etc/uniconv/unicode.htm I'm not sure how it works with Windows. Maybe Harut can explain it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted June 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 (edited) The following paragraph is on page 22 of the following site. http://www.sasanika.com/Sasanian%20History...0Sasanika-2.pdf Note the sentence in italics. 22 Thus Kawad I had to face economic and political problems which confronted the empire at the end of the fifth century. It is at this time that we have some information on Zoroastrian sectarianism in the Sasanian Empire. A Zoroastrian priest by the name of Mazdak was able to capture the attention of the Kawad I, to make reforms which went beyond the accepted religious dogma. This was also a social reform which caused much resentment during and especially after the event in the minds of the Zoroastrian priests. Sources tell us that Mazdak preached an egalitarian social system, one in which equality in wealth, women and property was propagated. Some sources state that it was Kawad who introduced Persians to “have communal intercourse with their women.. Kavat, kawat, kawwat, gavad. βô²î No it does not mean cup or glass. It is an x-rated word that is used in the Armenian and other ME languages including Arabic where it is pronounced "qawwad". Here are some synonyms; Prnkamijnord, bozamijnord, knatsu, knakavat etc. You get the idea, it means "pimp" although when use as an insult it may mean whatever the user has in mind, like lowlife, fink, traitor etc.. According to Ajarian the word was used once by Voskeberan in the following sentence; "Ev aynchap kavatutyan ban@s ev gordz@s anamotutyan gordzen". He does assert that the word does indeed mean "pimp". He does not give a definite source or origin except that he rejects the idea of it coming from Arabic since in those days we had not come in contact with Arabic yet. Look at that sentence above again. Could it be that the word came to mean what it is today based on the name of Kawad? Let's read that sentence again; Some sources state that it was Kawad who introduced Persians to “have communal intercourse with their women. Btw. Who and what is this Kawad? Does anyone know more about him? Edited June 8, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Look at that sentence above again. Could it be that the word came to mean what it is today based on the name of Kawad? Let's read that sentence again; Some sources state that it was Kawad who introduced Persians to “have communal intercourse with their women. Btw. Who and what is this Kawad? Does anyone know more about him? poor little Kawad It was interesting. It is probably correct that you use Kawads name in that way in Armenian. Yes there was a king with name Qabâd ( the "b" changes in Persian from "p->v->b" !) And Mazdak did live at his time. I dont know what to believe about Mazdak. Some says , he was teaching socialism, some says no. What I can recall Qabâd converted to Mazdakism in hidden, and later when it get known he was killed by the court people. What I know Zarathushtrians still today call Mazdak for "Ahrimanak" ( Ahriman = Satan, ak = little) , the little satan. The worse religious masacre in Irans history has been done on Mazdakian by Zarathushtrians. What I have understood they killed almost all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 (edited) I dont know what to believe. It seems people did misunderstood the teaching of Mazdak! Anyway, Ferdowsi in his story says so about Mazdak and King Kawad : (In Persian) http://shahnameh.recent.ir/default.aspx?item=548 Line one: Mazdak was a wise and learned man ! http://shahnameh.recent.ir/default.aspx?item=548&page=3 Line 18-19: Mazdak tries to explain for king Kawad that 5 things are the bad things. One of them is question about not having a woman and the desire to have one. http://shahnameh.recent.ir/default.aspx?item=548&page=4 Line 22-25: A Zarathushtrian priest, Kasri or Kasrâ, explains for king Kawad that if people would follow Mazdaks teaching , no one would know who is his father, and who is his son. The world would go down. Only Satan would talk like that. http://shahnameh.recent.ir/default.aspx?item=548&page=5 Line 7, king Kawad gives order to kill all the Mazdaki. What I undertstand of Ferdowsi's Shahname, Mazdaks teaching was misunderstood. It seems king Kawad did follow or promote Mazdaks teaching for a while. For ex, here http://shahnameh.recent.ir/default.aspx?item=548&page=5 line 21, it says, Kawad shamed for his friendship to Mazdak. Edited June 8, 2004 by Iran01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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