gamavor Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 To give… You are not asked to give anything and it is not about giving and receiving, nor it has anything to do with giving it away… , so calm down. I stumbled across an article about Mithirades who was closely associated with Tigranes the Great. As you know his daughter Cleopatra of Pontus became an Armenian Queen. What sparked my interest to the word “give” , “to give” is the following passage from a webpage that I was reading. “MITHRADATES, less correctly MITHRIDATES, a Persian name derived from Mithras (q.v.), the sun-god, and the IndoEuropean root DA, to give, i.e. given by Mithras.” http://82.1911encyclopedia.org/M/MI/MITHRADATES.htm In Armenian the word for ‘to give’ is DAL/DALIS infinitive and D’VI or DUVI past tense. In Russian the infinitive would be ‘дать’(DAT/DAVAT) and the past tense would be … дал DAL as in Armenian present, as if Armenians had given something (DUVIN) that Russians are suppose to give (DAVAT) Look at other IE languages what is the situation. In Latin there is no past tense for the verb ‘to give’ – it is always DARE, however in Italian the past tense is ‘ha dato’. In the Germanic languages it looks kind of obscured but not for too long. In English ‘to give’, gave, given, In German ‘geben’, in Dutch ‘om te geven/gaf’, etc. , but if you replace the “g” sound at the beginning with “d” , you will get almost the same picture. It all started with the particle root” DA “– to give, given by Gamavor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 In Latin there is no past tense for the verb ‘to give’ – it is always DARE, however in Italian the past tense is ‘ha dato’. In fact there is a past tense, about three versions: 1)I gave, dabam 2)I gave/I have given, dedi 3)I had given, dederam 'Given' is datus, so maybe Mithradates was Mithradatus at some point, since that would be the literal Latin 'given by Mithras'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Same with Mehrdat? Given by Mehr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 And Trdat/Tiridat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 To give… You are not asked to give anything and it is not about giving and receiving, nor it has anything to do with giving it away… , so calm down. ========= “MITHRADATES, less correctly MITHRIDATES, a Persian name derived from Mithras (q.v.), the sun-god, and the IndoEuropean root DA, to give, i.e. given by Mithras.” Very good Gams! We've got to GIVE it to you! The other contributors have added valuable info as well. Yes, Ajarian does affirm that tal/dal=to give is is from the proto-IE "de, do, da" etc. which is evident in many other languages both east and west, among many the Pahlavi "datan". All ver good, however allow me to open a whole new can of worms by capitalizing on one form of the word as in the imperative tu/tur/du/dur, in other words the command GIVE. Just as in the case of Mehrdat, Mithridates we have other Armenian words, usually names as Asatur, Astvatsatur, Tiratur and Vanatur. Commonly the first two are considered one and the same the shorter one assumed to be an abbreviation of the second., i.e. God-given, hence the other two would also follow in fashion to mean "given" by. However Vanatur seems to be the exception to the rule as it is meant to be "giver" rather than "given". The pagan deity Vanatur was the god of hospitality, i.e. giver of hospice/hostel/comfort, based on one meaning of "van" as residence on which the word "vank" (plural) is supposed to mean (a cluster of) residences, ins, ijevans if you will. As warned above, let me disturb some ashes, some fire. What if Asatur/Astvatsatur and Tiratur don't really mean "given by" but rather "the fire of" based on the fact that "atur", often abbreviated to "atr" in fact means fire as in atrushan, hearth, pagan altar. Many examples of the usage, best known of which being Atrpatakan/Atrbaijan, place of fire based on the eternally burning (oil) fileds. By this token then Asatur and Tiratur would mean (the) fire of god and fire of the lord (ter) respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted June 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 And Trdat/Tiridat? Yes Stormig, very possible. Many pre-Christian Armenian names were derived from pagan dieties. Just like in the example above Mithra-dates(given by Mithra), as well as in the Greek - Theo-dorous (God's Gift), Tirdates, Tiridates or T@rdat all the same - Tir (the ancient armeno-aryan diety and dates "given")! Very good observation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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