Aghtamar

[Arpa]

Of all the sites about Aghtamar I found the following most representative and pictorial. There are many other sites, each worthy in their own way as every one of them may address a different view and aspect. The site will also take us to other monumnts inside Armenia

Feel free to add. And Maral you may also consider to repost that poem by Toumanian here as well.

 

http://www.galenfrysinger.com/akhtamar_island.htm

 

Originally I had posted several references to the subject as it had been discussed on this forum but I decided to omit them because, as stated above many of them had gone way off the main topic and had deteriorated into personal comments and attacks. However I decided to leave the reference to Metsamor below since, as you will see it has relevence to the item following below.

 

Altough I have heard Metsamor interpreted in many ways even as far as having to do with somebody's grandmother(mets mor), the site you posted opens with the iterpreation of "quick sand" or some such sulliness. Metsamor is a marshland and a swamp hence many explanations have attempted to capitalize on that. However the original Metsamor was named after the fortress of Metsamor which in fact means "mets" ev "amur", i.e. "big" and "strong".

======

 

Aghtamar/Haghtamur

 

The origin of the name "Aghtamar" has been the subject

of many debates. It may be opportune to mention here that Aghtamar is

the Island and not the cathedral upon it. There are several structures on

the Island, the most famous of them being the church of Holy Cross,

Sourb Khach.

The Island of Aghtamar is one of the several islands,

albeit the largest and the best known. It is part of a quartet of

islands, the others being Lim, Ktoutz and Arter.

 

First the ridiculous.

The Turks call the Island "Ak Damar"(during the Ataturk linguistic purges all sounds that were deemed to primitive and savage were removed from the Turkish language, therefor the sound of "KH" as in "khach" was replaced with either plain K or H, khach became "hach" and "khyar" became "hyar"), to make it soubd like "white vein/artery". Even more ridiculous is the notion that Mt. Masis, Ararat, is the "mountain of pain" as it is known as Agri Dagh in the Turkish. The latter is nothing but a turkification and

corruption of the alternate Armenian name Aghori/Aghori Ler. This is

corroborated by the still discernible ruins of the Village of Aghori at

the foot of the Mountain.

Some time ago I had advanced the theory that

"Aghtamar" may have been a variation of the original name of the

temple (church) "aghot-a-mayr", the "mother of prayer"

and that the island was known by the main structure. I admit that the preceeding takes quite a stretch of imagination. Yet, if the Turks would call our sacred mountain the "Mountain of Pain" and get away with....! Why can't we?

However, on further reading, I may have stumbled on a

better theory. While searching the Aremnian etymological

dictionary, trying to find the connection of "aght",

it all became clear. "aght" is a variation of the

word "haght". We commonly use the word as in

"haghtel", to win, to vanquish. The root word, "aght/haght" is of

original Armenian, via Urartian to mean "big", "high", "brave",

"powerful". We know that the Latin "L" transliterates to "gh" in the

Armenian, therefor consider the Latin word

"alt/altus", as in "altitude" or "exalted". [Chancellor

Adenaur would have been happy to know that his

nickname would be Ter Haghte in Armenian (Der Alte)].

As to the second part of name "amar". The word has

connection to the modern Arabic/Persian, probably original

Aramaic. It means "to build", "building". Even the

Turks use it. They call Sinan the Architect

Mi'mar(Arabic) Sinan to mean "builder". One variation of the

word in Armenian makes even more sense, "amrots" in Armenian

means "fortress/fortification". Another common word that we

often use is "amour" to mean "firm", "strong", the connection

here is hard to miss. Not to forget that "aght/haght" also implies

"invincible" (although in common usage we sometimes use it in its

redundant form- "an-haght". Put the two together- "aght-amar" and you get

"invincible-structure/building". It is attested that

Aghtamar had been a fortress island going back to antiquity therefor we

will dwell on the fact that the appellation is none other than

"[h]aght-amar" i.e. "invincible fort[ress]".

[bellthecat]

Of all the sites about Aghtamar I found the following most representative and pictorial.

You didn't look very hard, did you?

 

http://www.virtualani.freeserve.co.uk/aghtamar/index.htm

 

 

Re. the names origin, there is absolutely no physical evidence on the island that would indicate that there was ever a fortress on Aghtamar.

Edited May 22, 2004 by bellthecat

[Arpa]

ՀՈՎՀԱՆՆԵՍ ԹՈՒՄԱՆՅԱՆ

 

ԱՂԹԱՄԱՐԻ ԿՂԶՈՒՄ

 

Սըրտիս խորքերեն

Հովեն թե ծովեն

Մի ձեն եմ լըսում.

Ո՛նց է մի աղջիկ

Մեղմ ու հանդարտիկ

Անվերջ արտասվում։

 

Կոպիտ աշխարհ է,

Մարդը միշտ չար է,

Կյանք է կործանում,

Կյանքն էլ կործանված

Որ անցավ գնաց,

Էլ ետ չի դառնում...

 

Սըրտիս խորքերեն

Հովեն թե ծովեն

Մի ձեն եմ լըսում.

Ո՛նց է մի աղջիկ

Մեղմ ու հանդարտիկ

Անվերջ արտասվում։

 

«Թամա՜ր... Ա՜խ, Թամա՜ր...»

Իզո՜ւր... ոչ մի բառ...

Չի պատասխանում։

Սերը որ կորավ,

Սիրտը որ մեռավ,

Արցունքն է մնում...

 

Սըրտիս խորքերեն

Հովեն թե ծովեն

Մի ձեն եմ լըսում.

Ո՜նց է մի աղջիկ

Մեղմ ու հանդարտիկ

Անվերջ արտասվում...

 

 

And here is a poor attempt of translation, if indoubt it is by me.

Btw. The other, Akh Tamar was written in 1891.

 

Toumanian

AT AGHTAMAR ISLE

1915

 

Deep down in my heart

Of the wind and sea

I hear a sweet voice,

As that of a girl

Soft and so tranquil

With unending tears.

 

It is a rude world,

Man's ever evil

E'er destroying life.

And that ruined life

Which passed and away,

Will never turn back.

 

Deep down in my heart

...

 

Tama~r.... A~h Tama~r....

In vain, not a word...

Will come in answer

That love which is lost,

And the heart that died,

Only tears will stay...

 

Deep down in my heart

....

Edited May 24, 2004 by ExtraHye

[Arpa]

Thank you dear Bell. A very worthy and all encompassing site that I have been aware of and a regular visitor for quite sometime. In fact I have bookmarked the site and visit periodically and regularly.

As intimated in my initial note I do not wish this thread to be an "I told you so", "I said it first" forum, and a place to air our personal sentiments and frustrations. Forgive me if I am breaking the very premise, but as you can see the site I posted has a totally different pictorial and photographic perspective. It is our duty to save and preserve every and all reference to the landmark for future posterity, so that when one day when we once again repossess the site we may have graphic evidence to base our reclammation.

Again forgive this editorial and please ignore.

==

Note:

Every Armenian reference to antiquity will use the word "kiklopian", which is a transliteration of "cyclopean" referring to the Homeric cyclops, the one eyed giants whose architectural talents were very primitive and rough. I cannot help but, every time I encounter "kiklopian/cyclopean" to think of Tork of Ang@gh creating huge waves and sinking the ships of his detractors by hurling giant boulders into the sea. Kiklopian/cyclopean is used in the sense that structures were built with huge, unfinished and uncut boulders that may or may not be cubical or rectangular in shape.

======

We are aware that Aghtamar is the island and not the church on it, the latter is known as Sb. Khach.

 

AGHTAMAR: Kghzi Vana lchi harav-arevelyan masum.

At an altitude of 1662-1912 meters(above sea level). The highest point (1912m) at Bartsr Kar. An area of 0.7 sq km and at 3-3.5 km from shore. Total perimeter 4km. The nearst other island is Arter at the west. The island's southern and southwestern shores are rocky and at places at a drop of some 200-250 meters. At the east the land drops gradually eventually getting to the water level and providing a relatively flat terrain where the structures are located. The land is strewn with limestone and sandstone. Average yearly precipitation is 500 mm which causes the dense vegetation.

The island has been inhabited since pre-historic times. (highlight mine)At the northwesern shores traces of "kiklopian" walls are still evident with two to three rows, which according to H. Orbeli are meso-Urartean habitations. According to Khorenatsi, during the 4th c. there has been a fortress(amrots) of the Rshtuni dynasty. In the 7th c.(AD), during battles against the Arab invaders Aghtamar was a rampart used by Theodoros Rshtuni. In the 10th c. King Gagik Artsruni rebuilt the fortress and the habitable buildings and once again rendered it an invincible fortress/town, and with the rebuilt church he also made the island a spiritual center.(reference to the Catholicate of Aghtamar) Thoma Artsruni attests that a 2 meter high dike was constructed with huge boulders upon which the great walls were constructed. The walls encircled a (554 meter)field that held five arenas and or horse racing flats, and several watchtowers. Adjacent to the walls there were structures used as depots, armories and storages. Beacuse of all these buildings a segment of the island took the shape of a penninsula which by some reports became "a safe haven and mooring harbor for many ships"..... Parisp@ ev navahangist@ nerkayum@s jri tak en.. The wall and the harbor are sumerged at the present.

[Arpa]

Look what this guy says-

“Sometimes he calls the mountain Masis, because Armenians call it Masis: “In Turkish we call it Aghri Daghi, Aghri means pain, Daghi means mountain, but when we put these words together it does not mean ‘mountain of pain’.”

Of course! It is a corruption of "AGHORI"!!

When is the last time and furk, or a kurd for that matter, see Masis from its classical vantage point? Every Armenian, be they natives or diasporans see the Sacred Mountain in its majesty 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

http://www.armgate.com/ararat/ar_36.html

Some day soon, those dogs will have to have an Armenian State visa to even come close. You don‘t believe? Did you believe 20 years ago that Armenia would be an independent nation and a member of the United Nations?.

-----

http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArti...98&lng=eng#

(August 1, 2008)

Beyond and Inside: Turk look on Ararat with Armenian perception

By Sara Khojoyan

ArmeniaNow reporter

Published: 01 August, 2008

Ten days spent in Armenia made such a strong impression on a Turkish photographer that he decided he would visit again the country that had a history of troubled relations and no current diplomatic ties with his own nation.

 

Saner Sen, 34, came to Armenia to shoot Ararat, which is in the territory of modern Turkey but symbolizes the dream of all Armenians around the globe about the lands lost to the west of this biblical mountain. Generations of survivors of the early 20th-century massacres in Ottoman Turkey that left more than 1.5 million Armenians killed and deported from their homes have been pushing for an international recognition of those events as genocide – something that the governments of modern Turkey have refused to admit.

 

Saner says he wasn’t scared off by what some of his friends told him about risks to his personal safety in Armenia. He says he felt safe and confident during his whole stay in Armenia.

 

“I liked Armenia very much. It beat all my expectations. Yerevan had a good reputation to me before I came here. I heard a lot about it from my Armenian friends and Turkish friends who have been to Yerevan. And this reputation just improved,” says Saner.

 

The freelance reporter for National Geographic magazine in Turkey is a mountain climber and he started to think about shooting Ararat from all sides in 2001 when he climbed Ararat, the highest mountain in Turkey. It took him seven years to realize his idea as he finally got to Armenia this year.

 

“Only one of my friends warned me before I came here. He said like we have fanatics in Turkey, there might be fanatics in Armenia, so just I had to be careful about it. But I don’t care about that kind of things. What I believe if you think nice about people and keep your smile on your face you will have no problems,” the photographer tells about how he was communicating in Armenia.

 

And during the 10 days in July Saner was in Armenia he managed to gain confidence of Armenians: “People here offer me a place to stay, asking me if we’re okay. I was drinking and eating with many guys and they were very friendly. And right now I have Armenian friends in Armenia as I have in Turkey.”

 

Saner wants to see Armenia and Turkey as friendly countries. He dreams about the day when Armenians and Turks will climb Mt. Ararat together: “I heard that our government doesn’t allow Armenians to climb Ararat. This is stupid. And I feel shame because of our government.”

 

“I know the topic very well. The mountain means two different things for two different nations,” the photographer continues. “I know what the mountain means for Armenians, and what it means for the Turkish people. Except for mountaineers Ararat doesn’t mean much for us - it is the highest mountain of the country. Also there are books and songs about Ararat in Turkey but it is not as much important for us (Turks) as for you (Armenians).”

 

Sometimes he calls mountain Masis, because Armenians call it Masis: “In Turkish we call it Aghri Daghi, Aghri means pain, Daghi means mountain, but when we put these words together it does not mean ‘mountain of pain’.”

 

“I think Masis is important for Armenians because it used to be an Armenian land before. And right now it is across the border, and they can’t even go to climb the mountain. Everybody misses to be around the Ararat – go there, visit it, maybe climb up the mountain but they can’t go to visit and climb it.”

 

Saner is one of the few Turks who recognize the Armenian genocide:

 

“I don’t want this border to be closed. I don’t want people to have bad ideas about each others. We used to live together for centuries. Something very terrible happened in 1915 and after that time we have these borders and soldiers between us and also governments, I must say. We just can’t reach peace. There are some people trying to do something about it. One of them was Hrant (Dink). And we know what happened.”

 

“The government says Turks didn’t kill Armenians. They just say that they forced those people to leave the country and on the way they got sick and died. And lots of people still believe in this because this is in history books, they still teach this. I have been taught this way, too,” says Saner.

 

He “realized the truth” in university when he started to read other books different from the ones he had been educated on. The photographer says it is not easy “to break all this propaganda and get to the truth.”

 

“Few people are doing that and it is not easy to change what’s going on, it is not easy to change school books. Everybody knows that Armenian people live in Turkey but few know how the hell it ended up like this. When we change the books and start to teach people the truth and after like 10-15 years we’ll have a new generation knowing something else than old government propaganda,” the Turk draws the future of Armenian-Turkish relations.

 

“The situation must change. The only thing that can help is pressure of other countries – European countries, the United States. But it mustn’t be a political tool. This what Hrant Dink was saying,” he adds.

 

He promises that will visit Armenia again: “Not only once. I’ll come many times I hope. Right now I have many friends here. I’d like to visit them one day. I didn’t manage because of time to visit and shoot something else than the mountain, so I’d like to come again and visit more places as well.”

 

© Copyright ArmeniaNow.com 2002-2008. All rights reserved.

Articles may be reproduced, provided ArmeniaNow.com is cited as the source[/quote

Edited August 1, 2008 by Arpa

[Arpa]

Now that the latest hot topic is about Aghtamar , let us revisit and see where Toumanian got the idea for one his better remembered masterpieces AKH TAMAR. To not forget that one of his daughters was named TAMAR.

Some time ago Harut had asked the question about Hero and Humor, where we partially answered ;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1543&st=0&p=14759&hl=humor&fromsearch=1entry14759

A picture of that stormy shores of Aghtamar;

http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/000Images/him/heroleander3128.jpg

 

ԱԽԹԱՄԱՐ

 

ՀՈՎՀԱՆՆԷՍ ԹՈՒՄԱՆԵԱՆ

1891

 

Ծիծաղախիտ Վանա ծովի

Փոքրիկ գյուղից առափնեայ

Ծովն է իջնում գաղտագողի

Ամեն գիշեր մի տղայ։

 

Շովն է մտնում առանց նաւակ,

Բազուկներով առնացի

Ջուրը ճողփում լող է տալի

Դեպի կըղզին դիմացի։

 

Խաւար կըղզուց պարզ ու պայծառ

Մի լույս կանչում է նրան.

Մի վառ փարոս նրա համար

Չըմոլորի էն ճամփան։

 

Սիրուն Թամարն ամեն գիշեր

Այնտեղ կրակ է անում,

Եւ ըսպասում է անհամբեր

Այնտեղ մօտիկ դարանում։

 

Ծըփում է ծովն ալեծածան

Ծըփում է սիրտը տըղի,

Գոռում է ծովն ահեղաձայն

Նա կըռվում է կատաղի։

 

Եւ Թամարը սըրտատըրոփ

Արդեն լսում է մոտիկ

Ջրի ճողփյուն ու ողջ մարմնով

Սիրուց այրվում է սաստիկ։

 

Լըռեց։ Ծովի խավար ափին

Կանգնեց սեւ-սեւ մի ըստւեր…

Ահա եւ նա…իրար գըտան…

Խորհըրդավո՛ր լուռ գիշեր…

 

Միայն ալիքը Վանա ծովի

Մեղմ դիպչում են եզերքին.

Եւ հեղհեղուկ հեռանում են

Շըշունջներով անմեկին։

 

Նըրանք ասես փըսփըսում են

Ու աստղերը կամարից

Ակնարկելով բամբասում են

Լիրբ, անամոթ Թամարից…

 

Բամբասում են կույսի սըրտում

Ժամ է արդէն…ու կըրկին

Մինն ալեկոծ ծովըն է մըտնում,

Մյուսն աղոթում եզերքին…

 

Բայց մի անգամ չարկամ մարդիկ

Նըրանց գաղտնիքն իմացան,

Լույսը հանգցրին սեւ ու սաստիկ

Մի մութ գիշեր դիվական։

 

Մոլորվեցավ Խավար ծովում

Լողորդ տըղան սիրահար,

Ու բերում է հողմը բերո՜ւմ

Հառաչանքներն- «Ա՜խ, Թամա՜ր…»

 

Մոտ է ձայնը սեւ խավարում,

Ժայռերի տակ սեպացած,

Ուր ամեհի ծովն է գոռում,

Մերթ կորչում է խլացած

Ու մերթ լըսւում ուժասպառ.

«Ա՜խ, Թամա՜ր…»

 

Առաւօտյան ծովը ծըփաց.

Ափը ձըգեց մի դիակ,

Նըրա շուրթին պաղ, կարկամած,

Ասեղ մեռած ժամանակ

Սառել էին երկու բառ.

«Ա՜խ, Թամա՜ր…»

 

Այն օրվանից սըրա համար

Կըղզին կոչվեց Ախթամար։

 

AKHTAMAR

Translated by Vladimir Rogov

 

Beside the laughing lake of Van

A little hamlet lies;

Each night into the waves a man

Leaps under darkened skies.

 

He cleaves the waves with mighty arm,

Needing no raft or boat,

And swims, disdaining risk and harm,

Towards the isle remote.

 

On the dark island burns so bright

A piercing, luring ray:

There's lit a beacon every night

To guide him on his way.

 

Upon the island is that fire

Lit by Tamar the fair;

Who waits, all burning with desire,

Beneath the shelter there.

 

The lover's heart-how doth it beat!

How beat the roaring waves!

But, bold and scorning to retreat,

The elements he braves.

 

And now Tamar the fair doth hear,

With trembling heart aflame,

The water splashing-oh, so near,

And fire consumes her frame.

 

All quiet is on the shore around,

And, black, there looms a shade:

The darkness utters not a sound,

The swimmer finds the maid.

 

The tide-waves ripple, lisp and splash

And murmur, soft and low;

They urqe each other, mingle, clash,

As, ebbing out, they go.

 

Flutter and rustle the dark waves.

And with them every star

Whispers how sinfully behaves

The shameless maid Tamar;

 

Their whisper shakes her throbbing her

This time, as was before!

The youth into the waves doth dart,

The maiden prays on shore.

 

But certain villains, full of spite,

Against them did conspire,

And on a hellish, murky night

Put out the guiding fire.

 

The luckless lover lost his way,

And only from afar

The wind is carrying in his sway

The moans of: "Ah, Tamar!"

 

And through the night his voice is heard

Upon the craggy shores,

And, though it's muffled and blurred

By the waves' rapid roars,

 

The words fly forward-faint they are-

"Ah, Tamar!"

And in the morn the splashing tide

The hapless youth cast out,

 

Who, battling with the waters, died

In an unequal bout;

Cold lips are clenched, two words they bare

"Ah, Tamar!"

And ever since, both near and far,

They call the island Akhtamar

---

Many poets have been written about. The most memorable seems to be Christopher Marlowe;

http://www.classic-literature.co.uk/british-authors/16th-century/christopher-marlowe/hero-and-leander/

 

Greek mythology, Leander and Hero;

http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Hero.html

Is this Tamar and her Lover?

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mythology/HeroAndLeanderWilliamEtty.html

Edited September 10, 2010 by Arpa