Arpa Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 (edited) I will say this again! In fact, I will say it until I turn orange?, No, blue(kapuyt)in the face! The Armenian flag is not Karmir-Kapuyt-Narnjaguyn, it is Karmir-Kapuyt Dzirani. And please, don't give us spectrographic arguments as to how the color orange differs from apricot. Orange is not, never has been an Armenian fruit. Apricot? Prunus Armeniaca? To MosJan who powers his entire household with "apricot juice". One of many sites, perhaps not the best, yet; http://www.armenianheritage.com/hiflag.htm Drosh, Draush, Droshak, Droshm First let us get the last designation out of the way. I spelled it with an "m" ending to distinguish from the others. This "drosh-m" is spelled with the VO as opposed to the others that are spelled with the O, i.e. the classical "AU". The origin of this word is debatable, the best explanation may be that it has the same origin as the others yet the one spelled with the vo is often used to mean "stamp/branding/birthmark" etc. in words such as "droshmel", to brand, to stamp and "droshmatught", postal stamp. Drosh, Droshak, Draush You will note in the above site the explanatuon as to how the word came to be known as "droshak" from "dravshak". I spell it with the "u" rather than "v" beacuse inclassical pronunciation the U was supposed to sound like the English W and not like the V. And please' don't ever say that there is no W in the Armenian and that is the reason why we call that Mass. city, aka Little Armenia, "vatertavn", there was and is the sound of W in Armenian but when we turkified and persified our language the "hyun" that was meant to sound like W was corrupted and now it sounds like V just as the "vav" in Persian which is in fact the "wow" of Arabic as in "wa/and" which appears in Turkish as "ve", again to mean "and". In fact if we were to correcly enunciate the word it would sound something like "drowshuck". We will see why. In modern Persian the word for flag is "bayraq" from Turkish***(See my lamentations below) And the Arabs use the word "'alam" which in fact means sign,standard. Drosh/draush as in flag also appears in Pahlavi as "dravsh" which in turn is from the Sanskrit "drapsha". Are you ready? Are you sure you will not be scandalized? Some may have already guessed that the original Sanskrit word had very little to with "flag". First let us see where and how the word emerges. The English word "drape" may be one of the least scandalous, jus as the Iltalin "drappo"=linen and "drapello"=flag. How about the French "drap"=linen and "drapeau"=flag? I know this as a fact personally that in many of the Kilikian dialects "d@r@shok" means rag, qurj. (In the kilikian dialects the A turns into O as "mard/man" appears as "mord", and not so idly either beacuse "mard" is derived from word that in fact means "mortal/mahkanatsu". In fact Ajarian corroborates this saying that in many vernaculars "droshak/drshok" is used to mean "tsntsoti", tatters. Did you geuss it yet? In the original Sanskrit "draush" was meant to be "dress/coat" (any connections here?), and even less dignified, it meant underwear "spitakeghen, kanatsi taki shor [Ajarian]" (lingerie, made of linen?) I will stop here and get a little silly :) Did draush/drafsh, linen, underwear evolve to mean flag from the fact that during war time people would remove and wave their red underwear as acall for atack and their white underwear as a sign of surrender? Does the cliche-"losing one's pants" come from there? I told I was going to be silly!! :) ***Oh! Oh! I almost forgot. As much as I love Isabell I must cry every time I see and hear her. Yes, because of her angelic face and voice, but more so beacuse of her UGLY surname. She is Armenian, she sings Armenian among others and she does does it beautifully yet the whole picture turns ugly when her (surname)name points to the possibility that she may be Turkish. Why must an Armenian bear the onus of having such an ugly and burdensome name as Bayrakdarian? Which part of it is Armenian? The "ian"? Italians have it too. What is stopping her to amend her surname to Drosh-ian? Has she not heard that Abdulhamid is dead? Stop! Stop! You are hyperventilating again! I must stop doing this. After all this is under the subject topic of Language, not Soap Box. So! Shoot me! Edited May 21, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Uhm, one question - isn't the -dar/-tar a Persian suffix which means bear(er)? What would her surname be, in that case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Uhm, one question - isn't the -dar/-tar a Persian suffix which means bear(er)? What would her surname be, in that case? Yes, I took it for granted. It mean flag-bearer-(ian). However, some people think that to armenianize one's name it must be an exact translation, in which case it would droshak-a-kir, not any better sounding tha the Turkish one. Not necessarily. If one wants to preserve the spirit of a surname it can be done in many ways, even if like drosh-uni, drosh-ents etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 (edited) In modern Persian the word for flag is "bayraq" from Turkish***(See my lamentations below) And the Arabs use the word "'alam" which in fact means sign,standard. Drosh/draush as in flag also appears in Pahlavi as "dravsh" which in turn is from the Sanskrit "drapsha". Are you ready? So! Shoot me! In modern Persian "parcham" means flag. "beyraq" isnt used so much in modern Persian and sounds old ! Anyway "beyraq" is not Turkish. Edited May 21, 2004 by Iran01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 (edited) In modern Persian "parcham" means flag. "beyraq" isnt used so much in modern Persian and sounds old ! Anyway "beyraq" is not Turkish. My English-Persian dictionary gives flag as"bayraq" and "parcham", then the Persian-English one list bayraq/parcham to mean flag and the "bayraq" is qualified with a "T" which means "it is from Turkish" just as an "A" would mean from Arabic. I don't really know Farsi but thses dictionaries are prepared and edited by experts of Farsi. I think ,hope. Now that I look at the author someone named S. Haim, I wonder if he is not a Persian Jew. Furthermore, my very small Turkish dictionary does list bayrak also spelled bayrag (the g as in gh) as flag, standard and goes on further to say bayrak-dar as standard-bearer. Of course, as I said it a very small dictionary and it does no undicate the origins of words. Edited May 21, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 (edited) I think ,hope. Now that I look at the author someone named S. Haim, I wonder if he is not a Persian Jew. A Persian Jew! There are many dictionary which ignore pure Persian and promote Arabic..loanwords. They dont know better. If you are interested buy "Dehkhoda's dictionary". It is in over 20000 pages and took 40 years to complete it. http://www.mazdapublishers.com/Loghat-Namah.htm It is like a bible for many. On CD : http://www.iranbookshop.com/search/more.cfm?ID=6792 Edited May 21, 2004 by Iran01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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