Phrygia?

[Tranquilizer]

Hi everyone!

 

I see some people here quite interested in Armenian historical, cultural, linguistic heritage.

 

So I have one question, does anyone know anything about the cultural and other ties between Armenians and ancient nation of Phrygia.

 

I have been wondering about this recently. Some linguistic sources place Armenian language in the Phrygian group. Besides, I have read in some article that Greek historians identified Armenians with Phrygians...

 

I have looked up the few sources about Phrygian language. I was really curious, since as far as I knew scholars had not found any close relatives of Armenian language. Well, I can say one thing - certain words do sound similar or same (like "jerm" - meaning warm), but on the other hand many words from other languages sound similar too..

 

Anyway, anyone heard anything on this?

[angel4hope]

PHRYGIA

 

Ancient Phrygia in the west of the Anatolian plateau, the country around the sources of the Sakarya Nehri (river) within the triangle of the modern cities of Afyon, Eskisehir and Ankara, was named after the western Indo-Europeans who came here from Europe around 1200 BC and left their mark as skilled craftsmen with a culture of their own. It was a country clearly with many towns and cities, lying on the routes to the east from Lydia and Caria.

 

Today it has only three major cities: Afyon, the opium city, Eskisehir, a hub of industry and the main railroad junction, and Kütahya, a centre for ceramics and the mining of brown coal. Here in many places the westerlies and southerlies can still carry rain deep into the mountains, bringing denser settlement and a greater degree of cultivation in their train. This farming potential enabled Phrygia even in early classical times to develop a powerful kingdom of its own with many towns and cities. Its fringes, where east met west, were a battleground for Persians and Lydians, Romans and Galatians, Arabs and Romans, Crusaders and Seljuks, Ottomans and Mongols, Byzantines and Turks. Ruins and age-old monuments abound up on the rolling plateau around the upper reaches of the Sakarya, with here and there towering rocky outcrops and a few scraggy trees, although nowadays signs of settlement are few and far between.

 

The Phrygian language, which died out in the 6th c. AD, was closely related to Greek, as can be seen from 80 ancient Phrygian inscriptions (7th-4th c. BC.), written in a script rather like Greek and over 110 neo-Phrygian writings in Greek from Roman times.

 

As Thracian invaders, the Phrygians played a decisive role in the destruction of the Hittite Kingdom and the fall of Troy. Their independent Phrygian kingdom of the 8th and 7th c BC maintained close contacts with the Aryans in the east and the Greeks in the west. Its early history is only briefly chronicled (Herodotus), recounting the suicide of its last king, Midas, in Gordion when it fell to the Cimmerians (676 BC.). With the establishment of the Galatians in eastern Phrygia the fertility cult of Cybele, the mother goddess, spread widely amongst town dwellers, while country folk tended to worship Men, the moon god, ruler of Paradise and the Underworld. In 188 BC Phrygia came under Pergamum, followed by Rome, who made it a province in 133 BC.

 

The early spread of Christianity here was largely due to St Paul but the 2nd c AD also saw the development of two extreme sects: Montanism, derived from the locally born Prophet Montanus who preached that the end of the world was high, and Novationism, named after the Roman theologian and later Bishop Novatian, whose followers called themselves "the pure", in Greek "katharoi" (hence the Cathar heresy of the Middle Ages) and refused to allow any lapsed Christians back into the Church.

 

 

 

 

PHRYGIANS

 

The Phrygians arrived in Anatolia in 1200 BC, among the migrating tribes known as the "people of the Aegean Sea". At first they lived in Central Anatolia, building settlements over the ashes of Hittite cities like Hattusas, Alacahöyük, Pazarli and Alisar. At the beginning of the 8th century BC they set up their capital at Gordion.

 

We are familiar with King Midas from his epic, and from the discovery of his burial chamber. Midas, who succeeded to the throne in 738 BC, defended the frontiers of Phrygia quite well, but could not resist the attacks of the Cimmerians advancing from the Caucasian region. After his defeat by Cimmerians in 695 BC, it is said that he committed suicide by drinking bull's blood. Phrygians built the largest mound (tumulus) in Gordion known as the Tumulus of Midas; it is 53 meters high and 300 meters wide.

 

The large, almost square-shaped burial chamber is 6.20m by 5.15m. The skeleton of King Midas was laid on a large bench, surrounded by other benches full of gifts for the afterworld. Close observation of the skeleton revealed that King Midas died when he was around 60 years old and he was 1.59m tall. On the floor of the chamber were found 166 bronze funeral gifts and 145 bronze fibula laid at the head of the deceased. The lack of gold reveals that it was not a custom among the Phrygians to present funerary gifts of gold.

 

Influenced by Hittite art, Phrygian art, in turn, influenced Etruscan art in Italy. However, they were also directly influenced by the Urartu in Eastern Anatolia. For instance, they imported the Urartu figure of a bull's head and worked it on a cauldron of strictly Phrygian form. Metal ores were known and used in metalwork during the Early and Mid-Bronze Ages, from 2500 BC onwards. However, it was only around 1000 BC that Phrygian metalwork forms borrowed from pottery and metal vessels entered popular use. Phrygian art can be divided into three categories:

1- Local Phrygian ware

2- Urartu import ware

3- Assyrian import ware.

These groups are again divided into two major phases consisting of artifacts found in mounds dating before 695 BC.

 

The pottery of the Phrygian period was fine polychrome ware, which can be distinguished basically as early and late ware. Because of the Lydian domination of Anatolia during the late period, it bears western Anatolian influence after 695 BC.

 

As a contrast to the Hittite based motifs of the early period, in later ware we see studded patterns within lozenge shaped frames, and again studded motifs on animal forms. Complicated motifs took the place of very simple and geometric motifs from the old period. Instead of one color painted over another color, they started to be painted in many colors. Where animal shapes previously took on a schematic look to them, pieces from the late period showed evolvement. In addition, the late period witnessed motifs of meander, dots and plaited hair. Filtered vessels that had little application in daily life were seen to be popular as a funerary gift. Today Phrygian works of art are on exhibit at the Anatolian Civilizations Museum in Ankara.

 

Apart from their capital Gordion were you can visit the Tumulus of King Midas and nearby small museum, Pessinus was also a major Phrygian settlement. Examples of megaron planned, semerdam roofed houses were carved into the rock tombs. These may be seen around Afyon Arslantas and Eskisehir Yazilikaya.

 

The Arslantas rock monument near Afyon and the ruins of Midas near Eskisehir are among the most important Phrygian monuments in Anatolia, and are where the Phrygians worshipped their major deity Cybele and her lover Attis.

 

The Phrygian language belonged to the Indo-European group of languages.

[gamavor]

1250 B.C. - Arrival of the Armeno-Phrygians in Thrace.Crossing of the Bosphorus by the Armeno-Phrygians in Phrygia

1000 B.C. - Settlement of the Armeno-Phrygians in Phrygia

800 B.C. - The Armenians seperate from the Phrygians

 

Though, arrival should be replaced with departure, since both Phrygians and Armens were Thracians. I know that this is touchy issue, but I believe that many of the cultural similarities that exist between Balkan people and Armenians stem exactly from their common birthplace. More specifically the walking and dancing over fire (jumping), Tundrenez is as Armenian as it is Thracian, same with the tradtion of hanging pieces of clothes colored in red and white over trees, same with wine preparation and reverence to wine and grapes. There are also lots of folkloric similarities, songs, dances, etc..

Edited March 29, 2004 by gamavor

[Tranquilizer]

Thanks a lot Gamavor

 

I was curious about this issues and looked up some stuff.. Well, kind of cool to know about these cultural ties you pointed out

 

Yeah I wondered about those clothes on trees at pilgrimage sites, and Trndez, thanks again for the info. You know, Armenians' connections with southern Europe some people explain by commmon Arabic and other influences. I see now there might be alternative ways of looking at this.

 

I wonder why I have never heard from Armenians, neither read in Armenian literature and historical accounts, any single word about Phrigia and the Balkan heritage..

[Arpa]

Thanks a lot Gamavor

 

I wonder why I have never heard from Armenians, neither read in Armenian literature and historical accounts, any single word about Phrigia and the Balkan heritage..

The reason for that is it is not fashionable to describe Armenians as having come from....you name it. The east, the west, the north or the south. Before histriography became a science Armenians, more than other people have been trying to link us to people and places that we thought would bring prestige to us. What with corrupting Haik's legend and creating a second version where he is described as having come from Babylon, to only emulate the legend of Abraham having come from there as well, while the original legend of Haik describes him as having born and lived all his life in the Armenian highlands. Not much different from linking us to the biblical Noah, I say biblical because I firmly believe that the latter is a corruption of the original Armenian, yes Armenian legend of Noah, or that of Gilgamesh in the least.

Another proclivity, a disease if you will is that we have always attempted to link ourselves to the west, we have always disdained our kinship to the eastern peoples like the Persians and other "digusting(?)" people. We have always tried to be linked with the Romans and other western peoples. We do it even now, so much so that the natives of Yerevan Province are trying so hard to get out of those lands and move to the "promised land" Glendale.

 

However, once again to answer to your question, it is not fashionable to describe ourselves as having migrated from... but rather having lived on those lands from before anyone can remember, since if we succumb to that migration theory we fall right in the lap of the Turks who have been trying their darndest to show to the world that if they are are not natives of those lands neither are the Armenians who have come from....who knows from where. I have personally seen and read Turks saying; "You came, you conquered...even cleansed the lands of their original inhabitants like the Hittites and the Urartuans, now it is our turn".

 

As far as I am concerned Armenians came from no where, that is, no more than the entire mankind which according to the prevailing theory originated in Africa and spread from there. There may have been eastward migrations of Phrygians, Macedonians , Thracan and who else(?) who have mixed and assimilated into the Armenian nation who, as I said have always lived and occupied our highlands. AS to Phrygians and other influences in our language and customs. Why not? We have linguistic and cultural kinship with all the people that we have come into contact with, be they Persians, Assyrians, Arabs, Romans, Russians etc. including.... guess who else?

 

In conclusion. Even if it may be very desirable and palatable to try and prove kinship with people that we may consider adding to our contention of being of European stock but I would much rather stick to our guns and not budge from the position that we have NOT come from anywhere, that we have lived there since time immemorial and will contnue to do so.

[gamavor]

I do agree with Arpa. Armenians were local to no other place than Armenia since times immemorial. However we should not confuse the history of the formation of the Armenian nation with the history of Armenia. Armens, as a tribe were only one segment of the Armenian nation who most probably were migrants from Europe. Hayassa-Azzi, Nairi people, Urartians, Hittites and the rest were locals. Hayk the forefather was the most local. The genesis of the nation, speaking one language, inhabiting one geographical area, creating our own socio-economic lifestyle, moral value system, religious rites, etc. occurred much later.

Our genotype is a result of this admixture between Armens, Hyksos, and the rest of Armenian tribes rather than a result of foreign invasions and interbreeding with allies which unfortunately were common place, but not to the extend to radically change the general genotype.

 

By unfortunately, I mean forced to or as a matter of economical survival.

 

And to answer Tranquilizer about the Arabs’ influence. The contact with Arabs became effective in mid 6-7 century AD when the Arab hordes imposed their domination not only over Armenia but most of the Mediterranean. Before that we had only sporadic contacts and military engagements as friends or foes with them. I doubt that any of the Armenian heritage has anything to do with the Arabs. That is more valid for south of France, Spain and Italy. We do adopted some foods and manners from them, most notably through our beloved Beyroutsis who were forced to live in their lands and for the most part were respected citizen of their Arab countries.

[Tranquilizer]

Thanks for the info Gamavor jan!

 

Actually, Armenians, at least the lower classes of Hayastancis with whom I had many unfortunate contacts (the same meaning as you have - forced to or as a matter of survival ) carry a lot of Arabic influence, as I see it now - I know quite a few Arabs these days...

 

All the great and prosperous rabiz culture has its roots in middle east, if you ask me. And with turks, of course, no one rejects their input