gevo27 Posted February 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Inf + Inf = Inf. So that is not a contradiction. Do i talk to myself when i say you cannot add, subract, devide..etc... DANGIT stop making that sort of statement, anything you try to proov with those type of statements is allready flawed... there is no such thing as inf+inf.. that relationship does not exist.. lol.. now please stop saying inf+inf... it just doesnt make any sense!! lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Gevo, do you like to make up mathematics as you go along? You can't subtract infinity from infinity but adding, multiplying with positive real number, raising it to positive real power, dividing it with positive real number etc etc ... they all still equal infinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 You can't subtract infinity from infinity Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Gevo, do you like to make up mathematics as you go along? You can't subtract infinity from infinity but adding, multiplying with positive real number, raising it to positive real power, dividing it with positive real number etc etc ... they all still equal infinity. There is some technics(or rules) which you could apply to wave off the indetermination and later of find the result in many cases(have you forgotten the x-x ?) and more, i think you are jumping to easily into conclusions here, as some of Sasuns concerns are not as easy to answer. The whole problem created with Cantors infinit is that it specify and determinate an infinit, while presently infinit is more cathegorised as something which you can not determinate... for Cantor infinit is a closed existing entity that is determinated. Sasun, I will answer you later. Nairi, you can substract, finding the answer is another story. The problem is that "infinit" is not determinated usually(I say usually because Cantors and some other types are), so the answer you will find can be anything, 2, 8 a hundred, a billion or even infinit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Oh my goodness... This thread is still going on? You guys go ahead and continue talking math and nerd stuff. I will continue talking with all the ladies about love and flowers and infinite love and love to the power of infinity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 You guys go ahead and continue talking math and nerd stuff. I will continue talking with all the ladies about love and flowers and infinite love and love to the power of infinity... http://www.spitakmard.com/images/smilies/gay.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted February 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 (edited) Gevo, do you like to make up mathematics as you go along? You can't subtract infinity from infinity but adding, multiplying with positive real number, raising it to positive real power, dividing it with positive real number etc etc ... they all still equal infinity. Seaphan, if I know anything about math, its this... The only plausible way you can use inf with algebraic computations is if you were deviding a number by x, and you say what is the limit of f(x) if F(X)=(1/x) and as x approaches inf... this way you can say that the answer of F(X) is zero... I will find some real text then and show you what i am saying is true. You cannot add, devide, subract..etc.. inf.. dangit this is so simple!! lol.. you say you can add inf..? what is inf+-inf..??? it is surley not zero..is it? or what is inf*-inf? or what is, inf+1?? lmao.. common it doesnt make any sense Domino, i was assuming you would understand my reasoning here, you like math and seemed like you knew about it.. i am not maing mathematics up as i go along.. and Nairi, take it from me.. you cannot subract inf from inf... and again, nor can you do any computaions like that.. DONT YOU GUYS SEE THE SIMPLICITY IN MY ARGUMENT>> !!??? lol.. anyone!!! btw.. azat jan, yes karam ham inf masin ghosam, hamel aghchiknerin uragh pahem.. du shat arghayin mi eghi lol Edited February 29, 2004 by gevo27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 http://www.spitakmard.com/images/smilies/gay.gif Sip, I swear I knew you were going to say that I am gay. I was even thinking of posting a blurb at the end of my message to you not to make fun of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 you say you can add inf..? what is inf+-inf..??? it is surley not zero..is it? or what is inf*-inf? or what is, inf+1?? lmao.. common it doesnt make any sense ONCE AGAIN: Yes you can add inf ... it is still inf. inf + -inf = inf - inf ... which is UNDEFINED (read my previous post) and Domino's (x-x) post in the long mathematics thread. inf * (-inf) is -infinity inf + 1 is infinity Are we ready to put this to rest? What is so complicated about the concept of infinity as in something that grows without bound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 .. you cannot subract inf from inf... Everyone is saying the SAME THING. By the way gevo, THIS will explain all the 7 forms of indeterminate that Domino was talking about. As you see, infinity - infinity is one of them ... but addition, multiplication, etc are NOT indeterminate. I have to say among all those, 1^inf has always given me trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted February 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Everyone is saying the SAME THING. By the way gevo, THIS will explain all the 7 forms of indeterminate that Domino was talking about. As you see, infinity - infinity is one of them ... but addition, multiplication, etc are NOT indeterminate. I have to say among all those, 1^inf has always given me trouble http://mathworld.wolfram.com/iimg821.gif I dont know who the guy that wrote this is, but hes on crack.. OMG! im tired of the same thing being repeated.. i understand and have read what you guys are saying.. but i dot agree with you still.. lol.. and this is litterally the stupidest computations i have ever seen or heard of.. Sip, you cant possily think this is true..? can u ?? lmao.. ok.. we have inf and -inf.. as in, inf is the numbers to the right of the origin of a said axis, and this notion grows without bound, grows forever.. and, you multiply this by the numbers growing without bound in the negative direction, and you get that, negative inf outweighs inf.?? lol.. aper jan, espes ban cheka, inch usumes asa, espes ban cheka!! just doesnt make any sense, how can you say inf*-inf=-inf...?? explain to me the smantics, and reasoning for this... and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Gevo, what do you get when you multiply -5 * 5 ? I hope you get -25. If so, why minus? You seem to have trouble with some fundamentals of math so let's clear those up before moving on to infinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted February 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Ok, read this text.. lol... i think we may be thinking of infinity two diff ways.. as this text suggests.. In some circumstances, infinity (to be algebraically represented in this article by the letter "I") can be used as a number: in order to engineer a formula, to extract and display some theory, or to fill some empty space on a text book. However, in most cases, it makes a very bad number, and is mostly used as a concept. The reason for this is that it isn't really a number. Take the following rules: Infinity divided by a finite number is infinite (I / f = I); Any finite number divided by infinity is a number infinitesimally larger than, but never equal to, zero (f / I = 1 / I); Infinity divided by infinity is one (I / I = 1), or in fact any other positive number (I / I = and so on...); Infinity multiplied by zero (no infinity) is zero (I * 0 = 0); Infinity divided by a positive finite number is infinity (I / +f = I); Infinity divided by a negative finite number is minus infinity (I / -f = -I); Infinity divided by zero is not possible; Infinity plus infinity is infinity (I + I = I); Zero divided by infinity (nothing divided into infinity) equals zero (0 / I = 0); Infinity plus a finite number is infinity (I + f = I); Infinity minus a finite number is infinity (I - f = I); but Infinity minus infinity, due to the nature of infinity, can be zero, infinity, or minus infinity (I - I = -I, 0, I). In some of these respects it appears to be a number; it shares some of the same properties. Unfortunately, when you start using it as a number, you experience a few problems. You might be thinking, so why isn't it a number? Well, if it is, then it is each and every imaginable and unimaginable number, while being none of them. If you can define a number, it isn't infinity. Therefore, infinity is not a number. Perhaps then, it is lots of numbers. Perhaps a variable? Well, this is an interesting point to consider, but again, any number you might apply to infinity, is quite obviously not infinity. It doesn't matter how many numbers you apply to it, if they are numerable, they are not infinity. Can you calculate it? Well, considering the nature of infinity, no. As soon as you apply a value to infinity, you find that it isn't. Pick a number; you can always add one more. So what can you use it for? In most cases, people use infinity to replace a number that is so large, they can't be bothered to work it out. Infinity is usually applied to the boundless limits of space, and time. The theory being that if you go far enough in space, you can go further [1], and time is just as bad. The closest way to experience infinity is to buy an "auto-reverse" tape recorder, fix it to a reliable power source, and never turn it off. Of course, you will never really experience infinity this way, as you will eventually die, the tape will break, the machine will break, or the power source will die [2]. Curiosities Here follows a couple of examples of how one might happily misuse infinity for their own amusement, cheerfully putting a few rules to one side: If I + I = I and I + 2 = I Then I + I = I + 2 So I = I + 2 - I Then I = 2 But in the same spirit you could also say that: Since I + 2 = I and I - 4 = I Then I + 2 = I - 4 So 2 + 4 = 0 Then 2 = -4 Which is completely absurd, and is therefore the basis of most of the most advanced forms of modern creative accounting. In fact, all this proves is that infinity is most definitely not a constant value, and trying to use it as one can cause all manner of problems. Trying to fiddle with the rules of infinity can be hazardous to your health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 GEVO, for the last time: (Inf - Inf) is indeterminate. You cannot subtract infinity from infinity and get 0. That is why the "examples" in your posted text are stupid, not to mention the "rules". Actually, that entire text is rediculous unless it is taken out of context. I have no idea what it is trying to say as it is saying some very wrong things. I am not going to waste my time on this. I highly suggest you not waste your time on crap like that and pickup a good book ... basic algebra or something from school. http://armenians.com/forum/style_images/1/icon8.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted February 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 GEVO, for the last time Inf - Inf is indeterminate. You cannot subtract inf from infinity and get 0. That is why the "examples" in your posted text are stupid. Actually, that entire text is rediculous. I am not going to waste my time on this. I highly suggest you not waste your time on crap like that and pickup a good book ... basic algebra or something from school. http://armenians.com/forum/style_images/1/icon8.gif for crying out loud, screw inf-inf... thats not my point. my point is, computations such as 1/inf, is meaningless.. and i have my fundamentals quite right.. your not answering the questions i pose, you keep saying inf-inf is indeterminate... i understand.. Unless you are taking limits, any mathematical compuations with inf involved is meaningless... for the very reason stated in the ending of my previous post.. inf+1=inf, and inf+2=inf, then inf+1=inf+2, which suggests 2=1.. and so on.. its in the previous post.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 OH geez ... ok I'll spell it out for you: You posted: If I + I = I and I + 2 = I Then I + I = I + 2 So I = I + 2 - I Then I = 2 Going from "So to Then" is doing Inf-Inf=0. WRONG. Since I + 2 = I and I - 4 = I Then I + 2 = I - 4 So 2 + 4 = 0 Then 2 = -4 Going from the "Then to So" step is doing Inf-Inf=0. WRONG. 1/inf = 0. It is NOT indeterminate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 inf+1=inf, and inf+2=inf, then inf+1=inf+2, which suggests 2=1.. How does inf+1 = inf + 2 suggest 1=2 if you are not doing inf-inf=0? STOP DOING inf-inf. STOP IT RIGHT NOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted February 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 God DAMNIT. How does inf+1 = inf + 2 suggest 1=2 if you are not doing inf-inf=0? STOP DOING inf-inf. STOP IT RIGHT NOW calm down Sip, you are talking about countable infinity, and i am talking about uncountable infinity.. its the only explanation i could come up with, for you keep going to inf-inf=0..... what i am saying i havent made up sip jan, i have no reason to.. i have learned it.. read it etc... and i have no reason to be biased about this topic too, if what you are saying is correct, then gosh darnit.. thats what i would agree to.. but i have concluded we are talking about diff concepts of infinity.. as some mathematicians have come to accept, for better understanding of the fact of boundless numbers.. btw.. i am not making up, countable vs. uncountable infinity.. its true.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 (edited) I dont know who the guy that wrote this is, but hes on crack.. No one, just by the best brains in the mathematic community decades ago. The demonstration is very basic... wait and you will learn the Hospital technic or other such forms to wave off indeterminate forms... Gevo, here an easy way to see. lim 2x - lim x x-> inf x-> inf This is a inf - inf form, but yet it does not give 0, it gives 2. Such examples can be given for any of the seven forms. Edited February 29, 2004 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Actualy, I think all this is Sip fault for having brough Cantors infinit notion here and perturbed the entire map(math ). Azat, the next time you pop on this thread, add on your list of whim to spank, another time Seaphan name for me. Would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Gevo, how can infinity be countable? Are you talking about discrete and continuous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted February 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Gevo, how can infinity be countable? Are you talking about discrete and continuous? maybe you should pick up the textbooks.. seems like you dont know the notion of countable vs. uncountable infinity.. i thaught it ws pretty basic.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 lim 2x - lim x x-> inf x-> inf This is a inf - inf form, but yet it does not give 0, it gives 2. really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted March 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 No one, just by the best brains in the mathematic community decades ago. The demonstration is very basic... wait and you will learn the Hospital technic or other such forms to wave off indeterminate forms... Gevo, here an easy way to see. lim 2x - lim x x-> inf x-> inf This is a inf - inf form, but yet it does not give 0, it gives 2. Such examples can be given for any of the seven forms. Someone tell me, what is 1/inf? common, thats all i ask.. tell me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 1/inf = 0. It is NOT indeterminate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.