Meet the P.R. China

[Arpa]

Barev Anahit.

Bari es eker.

Huysov enq k@ mnas u k'apres!

Doyou know Chinese?

Do you have access to it?

I have a question for you.

Please go to "Culture" and read "Kamancha".

[Boghos]

In Damascus there is (or at least there used to be) a Chinese retaurant in one of the 5 star hotels, maybe it was the Sheraton, I don´t recall. It was run by an Armenian couple that had lived in China and were able to speak Chinese. The lady actually dressed in stereotypical Chinese custom. A friend whom I had dinner with in that restaurant actually played a joke on me as he knew the lady and when she came to get our order he addressed her in Armenian . I was not aware of the whole story up to that point.

 

Nice to see someone that speaks Chinese...

[Anahit]

Barev Anahit.

Bari es eker.

Huysov enq k@ mnas u k'apres!

Doyou know Chinese?

Do you have access to it?

I have a question for you.

Please go to "Culture" and read "Kamancha".

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Barev!!! Yes, I speak chinese, have been studying/living in China already for 7,5 years, planning to stay more... Yes, have access to it, actually i am writing from a chinese company where I work so will ask them about kamancha RIGHT NOW!

 

p.s. Will answer in "Culture","Kamancha" .

[Armen]

Armen jan, I really don't mean to question your chinese, but Russia, REALLY doesn’t mean a "hungry" country: the “e” there is  NOT the one in word hungry, Chinese NEVER mean it, just as they NEVER mean a "beautiful land" by saying “meiguo” for the USA (it is just the short way for MEI LI JIANHE ZHONGGUO, “li” from “benefit” and “mei” stands for the continent “mei zhou”). The meanings for France and Armenia also are NOT what u think they are, unfortunately. But most foreigners think the same way,as u wrote, so...

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Anahit jan, thanks for promoting my thread where I practically talked with myself and WELCOME!

 

Some questions. Why do Chinese call Japan "Ri Ben" (Sun Root / or "country of the rising sun" as it is known in the west)? Do they mean it? Or did they mean it when they called the Huns "Xiong Nu" (savages)?

 

Why do you think Chinese would not call the American continent "Beautiful" if the character "Mei" clearly stands for "beautiful" (美)? And why do you think they do not mean it? If you ask an average Zhou from the street maybe he will say he doesn't mean it because he heard some bad news about US on the TV. Especially if we add the "li" benefit as you noticed, it will make perfect sense. Beautiful and beneficial. Isen't that the understanding of the USA?

 

As for Russia's "e", I will reply later.

[Anahit]

Anahit jan, thanks for promoting my thread where I practically talked with myself and WELCOME! 

 

Some questions. Why do Chinese call Japan "Ri Ben" (Sun Root / or "country of the rising sun" as it is known in the west)? Do they mean it? Or did they mean it when they called the Huns "Xiong Nu" (savages)?

 

Why do you think Chinese would not call the American continent "Beautiful" if the character "Mei" clearly stands for "beautiful" (美)? And why do you think they do not mean it? If you ask an average Zhou from the street maybe he will say he doesn't mean it because he heard some bad news about US on the TV. Especially if we add the "li" benefit as you noticed, it will make perfect sense. Beautiful and beneficial. Isen't that the understanding of the USA?

 

As for Russia's "e", I will reply later.

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AYA (doesn’t this expression remind u of china? ha ha) !!!! Armen jan, really “MEI GUO” (“beautiful country”) has nothing to do saying USA is a beautiful country!!!! Please, believe me! I already wrote, “MEI” comes from the name of the continent “Mei zhou”, and just because it is called A-mer-ica. Just like they call A-fri-ca “Fei zhou”, Au-stralia “Ao zhou” etc. and, I hope u don’t think that they despise Africa, and that’s why they call it “Fei zhou” (you know what “fei” means right? ). Because an african student was very angry about how Chinese named “his” continent, and how they call the people: fei zhou ren. Oh, it took me soooooo long to calm him down! And this is one of the things I told him: just take a minute and think about “Ya zhou” Asia. U know what “ya” means, right? “inferior, second, sub-”. So do u think somebody, specially who thinks they are the greatest civilization in the world, would call himself “inferior land”?????? NEVER!!!!! At least not Chinese! And do u think by calling Eng-land “Ying guo” they really mean that it’s a “land of heroes” ???? They are really trying hard to write foreign names with Chinese characters and at the same time maintain the foreign pronunciation as much as possible (the case of Armenia, for example). And that is VERY hard.

But the case of Japan sounds reasonable, just like they called themselves “zhong guo”, cause they thought they were the middle of the world

Dear Armen, sorry, but, i think u made a mistake in “Or did they mean it when they called the Huns "Xiong Nu" (savages)?:” did u mean to write “HAN” as for “han zu” or… ????? I am little bit confused with this sentence, sorry… because in English there is a word “Hun” translated in Chinese as "Xiong Nu" (savages), but that IS NOT THE SAME as “HAN” which stands for the Han nationality! “Hun” and “Han” r two different words in English (my English is not good, but u can find that in the dictionary). So, in case u thought Chinese Hans called themselves savages…. AYA!!!!!!!! Never ever mention it, please!!!!! Just imagine an Armenian calling herself/himself a savage…

Oh, by the way, I am leaving for Xiamen tomorrow and, surprisingly, I HAVEN’T BEEN THERE BEFORE!!! Have u???? any places to recommend? Although it’s a business trip, I would like to visit the city little bit.

[Armen]

AYA (doesn’t this expression remind u of china? ha ha) !!!! Armen jan, really “MEI GUO” (“beautiful country”) has nothing to do saying USA is a beautiful country!!!! Please, believe me! I already wrote, “MEI” comes from the name of the continent “Mei zhou”, and just because it is called A-mer-ica.

Yes, I know that expression Anahit jan but I don't understand why are you so surprised. The fact that it comes from the name of the continent merely suggests that the continent is also viewed as "beautiful". There is nothing wrong in chosing the corresponding character for naming a placename which would explain the Chinese attitude towards one or other place.

Just like they call A-fri-ca “Fei zhou”, Au-stralia “Ao zhou” etc. and, I hope u don’t think that they despise Africa, and that’s why they call it “Fei zhou” (you know what “fei” means right? ). Because an african student was very angry about how Chinese named “his” continent, and how they call the people: fei zhou ren. Oh, it took me soooooo long to calm him down! And this is one of the things I told him: just take a minute and think about “Ya zhou” Asia. U know what “ya” means, right? “inferior, second, sub-”. So do u think somebody, specially who thinks they are the greatest civilization in the world, would call himself “inferior land”?????? NEVER!!!!! At least not Chinese! And do u think by calling Eng-land “Ying guo” they really mean that it’s a “land of heroes” ???? They are really trying hard to write foreign names with Chinese characters and at the same time maintain the foreign pronunciation as much as possible (the case of Armenia, for example). And that is VERY hard.

"Ao" in Ao-zhou (澳洲) means deep bay or harbour. Doesn't it somehow connect to the geography of Australia and the discovery of that continent? I case of Fei-zhou (Africa) I hope you know how racist is the ordinary Chinese view of Africans. No matter how politically correct they try to be, it is what it is.

 

In case of Ya-zhou (亚洲), where "ya" stands for "inferior". It makes much more sense than anything esle. Didn't they view the surrounding Asian countires as inferior to the Havenly Empire? If you view the countries surrounding China as subjects (and this was the Chinese approach over the whole course of history) it will become much more clear.

 

In case of Ying-guo (英国) England, it reflects the respect that the Chinese have always had towards the Brits, although they have hated them simultaneously. The Brits where the power that hurted the imperial sentiment of the Chinese the most. Even Monglos did not succeed in doing that because they eventually assimilated to the Chinese culture. Brits were the first culture that intoduced to the Chinese something much more superior that the Chinese had. And the name that the gave to England reflects the fact that the Chinese never lie to themselves although they may lie to others.

 

But the case of Japan sounds reasonable, just like they called themselves “zhong guo”, cause they thought they were the middle of the world

 

Glad we agree on this.

 

Dear Armen, sorry, but, i think u made a mistake in “Or did they mean it when they called the Huns "Xiong Nu" (savages)?:” did u mean to write “HAN” as for “han zu” or… ?????  I am little bit confused with this sentence, sorry… because in English there is a word “Hun” translated in Chinese as "Xiong Nu" (savages), but that IS NOT THE SAME as “HAN” which stands for the Han nationality! “Hun” and “Han” r two different words in English (my English is not good, but u can find that in the dictionary). So, in case u thought Chinese Hans called themselves savages….  AYA!!!!!!!! Never ever mention it, please!!!!! Just imagine an Armenian calling herself/himself a savage…

 

Clearly, by "Hun" I did not mean the “Hans" or Han Zu (汉), who are the majority ethnic group in China (96%). By "Xiong Nu" (匈奴) I meant the nomadic Huns, which devastated China couple of times invading from Eastern Siberia: http://www.answers.com/topic/xiongnu

 

Wouldn't it be logical to call them "savages" or "slaves"?

 

Oh, by the way, I am leaving for Xiamen tomorrow and, surprisingly, I HAVEN’T BEEN THERE BEFORE!!! Have u???? any places to recommend? Although it’s a business trip, I would like to visit the city little bit.

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I hope you had a good trip. I have never been to Xiamen but I know it is one of the most beautiful spots in China.

Edited March 31, 2005 by Armen

[Anahit]

Oh, verjapes veradarca! Vay, Armen jan, you can’t imagine how everybody has been laughing at me because of your ideas!!!! All this time I have been asking ANYONE (starting with waiters who couldn’t write ending up with LOTS of professors of different majors) about what u wrote, and they all laughed at me!!! Telling me that, as I know, all this words are just 音译。Of course I explained that it’s not my idea, and I don’t really share the idea. So, I am gonna stick to my own opinion and to the opinion of Chinese people: they know about their language and culture better than any 老外（foreigner/outsider）, right?. But u still didn’t explain about 俄罗斯 and 法兰西 ！I am waiting!!!! and，if I may add just one more word (if I ask explanations for all the countries, u will hate me, I think) 德国: what about this one? Do you think Chinese mean germany is a country of morals/virtue “德” （or heart/mind）???? Specially after all that germans have done??????? Anyway, it is very nice reading your posts, they make me smile.

Oh, about Xiamen: wow!!!!! I just loved it there!!!! Water, mountain, palm trees, FRESH AIR!!!! Less people than in other cities! And they are very nice and polite! They let old people get the seats in buses!!!!! But they are very slow.

[Armen]

If they make you smile, I could tell you a couple of jokes instead. How come you "wait!!!" for explanations? Is it that exciting? Actually, I think the next portion of explanations will either get you stoned to death or a large article in People's Daily. Edited April 12, 2005 by Armen

[Anahit]

If they make you smile, I could tell you a couple of jokes instead. How come you "wait!!!" for explanations? Is it that exciting?

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Aya, Armen jan, everybody can tell jokes!!! Don't u think so? but how many people do u think are there thinking the way u do? not many! i like new ideas and new ways of looking at/approaching to things, and am more than happy to hear them, even if i don't really share the ideas. i like new ideas! yes, it is exciting, reminds me again and again how different and interesting the world/life is. i always enjoy talking to people who have different ideas and opinions. as for jokes.... not a big fan, to tell the truth...

[Armen]

OK than. Let's go one at a time.

 

伊朗 (Yi lan) - Iran

 

First character 伊 is the same as in 伊斯兰教 (Yi si lan jiao) or Islam.

 

Second charater 朗 (lan) means "clear" or "bright".

 

Does this give you any associations?

[Anahit]

In all foreign names that sound more or less "yi","yin" they use 伊，so nothing impressinve，sorry。and still waiting for 俄罗斯,法兰西and德国

by the way, when i replied last time, i could ONLY see 3 sentences form your post (till the smiles), and only the second time i saw all of it: how come? so, yes, i think u could write an article to some chinese newspaper, why not?

[Armen]

蒙古 (Meng gu) - Mongolia

 

蒙 (Meng) - hoodwink, deceive, dim sighted, ignorant

 

古 (Gu) - ancient

 

Any associations?

[Armen]

In all foreign names that sound more or less "yi","yin" they use 伊，so nothing impressinve，sorry。

 

Which ones for example. Indonesia and India is a different (Yi) 印. And you might know the similarities between India and Indonesia despite Indonesia being a predominantly muslim country.

 

and still waiting for  俄罗斯,法兰西and德国

 

Let's leave this for now

 

by the way, when i replied last time, i could ONLY see 3 sentences form your post (till the smiles), and only the second time i saw all of it: how come?  so, yes, i think u could write an article to some chinese newspaper, why not?

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It is OK I edited it after you posted.

[Armen]

巴基斯坦 (Ba ji si tan) - Pakistan

 

巴 - (Ba) - hope

 

基 - (Ji) - base, foundation

 

斯 - (Si) - this

 

坦 - (Tan) - flat /also has other meanings/

 

Now, consider "斯坦" (Si Tan) ending in names of different countires like Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan etc. I think they perfectly reflect the meaning of Indo-European "stan", which means "a flat place" or "this plain". Like the same "stan" in Russian or "to stand" in English.

 

If you know Pakistan's history you might also find the first two characters "hope" and "foundation" not incidental.

[Armen]

瑞士 (Rui Shi) - Switzerland

 

瑞 (rui) - lucky

 

士 (shi) - warrior, soldier, scholar

 

Now, you might know the story of famouse pikemen of the Swiss Army, the Lansknechts, who for many centuries have been the guardians of the Pope and the French king. Switzerland was proud of them. The were definitely the "warriors of luck" in other words - mercenaries.

Edited April 12, 2005 by Armen

[Anahit]

Nice! thanks for your time Please keep on writing, if u don't mind, it is very interesting! So, why don't they use "伊" in 印尼 Indonesia? or call it 印亚

by the way, i have been "giving chinese names" to lots of foreigners, useing the nicest characters, as chinese always have been doing, when trying to write down foreign names and keeping the correct (more or less) pronunciation. but non of them is ment to be as nice, smart or beautiful as the characters given to them show

oh! oh!! SO THE CITY CALLED 长春 HAS THE LONGEST SPRING, HASN'T IT? （pls answer to this). Of course， 北京 and 南京 mean northern and southern capitals，but，what about 长春？ and why don't they use 斯坦 for Hayastan like 哈亚斯坦 （i used 亚 becuase it is in Asia， otherwise i prefere 雅 ） or 亚美斯坦（according to your posts。although armenia is not

flat but neither r most of the countries they use 斯坦。）？？？

some names ARE ment to tell you something， but NOT ALL！！！！ JUST LIKE THE CASE OF ARMENIA亚美尼亚， ENGLAND 英格兰，FRANCE法兰西 etc are just 音译！even mendeleev's “azyusak” has exceptions

Edited April 12, 2005 by Anahit

[kakachik77]

巴基斯坦 (Ba ji si tan) - Pakistan

 

巴 - (Ba) - hope

 

基 - (Ji) - base, foundation

 

斯 - (Si) - this

 

坦 - (Tan) - flat /also has other meanings/

 

Now, consider "斯坦" (Si Tan) ending in names of different countires like Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan etc. I think they perfectly reflect the meaning of Indo-European "stan", which means "a flat place" or "this plain". Like the same "stan" in Russian or "to stand" in English.

 

If you know Pakistan's history you might also find the first two characters "hope" and "foundation" not incidental.

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Pakistan comes from Punjabi+Afghani+Kashmir+Sindh+stan. This nation's name was basically coined by some scholar in England after their independence.

 

I found this online for you

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan#Origin_of_Name

[Armen]

Pakistan comes from Punjabi+Afghani+Kashmir+Sindh+stan. This nation's name was basically coined by some scholar in England after their independence.

 

I found this online for you

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan#Origin_of_Name

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Thank you Kakachik. When naming it the Chinese took into account only some basic similarity of sound and some historical features, like a "foundation of hope" for muslims and other people who fled India after the partition. They did not try to reflect the original Pakistani meaning or the term that the English scholar coined.

[Armen]

Nice! thanks for your time Please keep on writing, if u don't mind, it is very interesting! So, why don't they use "伊" in 印尼 Indonesia? or call it 印亚

Because they use "伊" for the Islamic countires of the Middle East. Indonesia however is not a traditionally muslim country from the Chinese perspective. It has more Hindu cultural influence than Arab Muslim influence. Also, the existence of large Chinese diaspora in Indonesia gives them opportunity to know this country as an insider. I think they named it right

 

by the way,  i have been "giving chinese names" to lots of foreigners, useing the nicest characters, as chinese always have been doing, when trying to write down foreign names and keeping the correct (more or less) pronunciation.  but non of them is ment to be as nice, smart or beautiful as the characters given to them show   

Well, you always face ugly reality one way or another.

oh! oh!! SO THE CITY CALLED 长春 HAS THE LONGEST SPRING, HASN'T IT? （pls answer to this). Of course， 北京 and 南京 mean northern and southern capitals，but，what about 长春？ and why don't they use 斯坦 for Hayastan like 哈亚斯坦 （i used 亚 becuase it is in Asia， otherwise i prefere 雅 ） or 亚美斯坦（according to your posts。although armenia is not

flat but neither r most of the countries they use 斯坦

Have you been to Changchun in spring summer period? I guess not. Cause if you had you would never ask that question. Shame on you They don't call Armenia 哈亚斯坦 because they came to know Armenia though Russia and though its Russian name. That's why it is 亚美尼亚 (Ya mei ni ya). And I think it is preferable becuase that way they view Armenia as European, while in case of Hayastan we would clearly fall in the category of all Central Asian "stans". Not that average Chinese has a clue where Armenia is but still. Most of those countries that have "stan" are flat and have vast steppes or deserts.

some names ARE ment to tell you something， but NOT ALL！！！！ JUST LIKE THE CASE OF ARMENIA亚美尼亚， ENGLAND 英格兰，FRANCE法兰西 etc are just 音译！even mendeleev's “azyusak” has exceptions 

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OK, so now you are convinced that some ARE! If I pass the median of existing 192 countries would you consider it a fare to call this a worthy theory?

Edited April 12, 2005 by Armen

[Anahit]

Armen jan, sorry, still can't take your theory. But theories don't always have to match the reality, so, in this case, it is ok to call it a theory, AND A VERY GOOD ONE and, 1 more thing to say why i can't accept your theoty (the main reason is, that chinese reject your way) is 长春 "long spring" . I LIVE HERE！！！ and we have NO SPRING！！！！！ when i heard that i had to study here, i also though it might be a very nice, "springy" city: now it is still 1 to 8 degrees!!! really cold! no green yet! so, once again, NEVER COUNT ON THE REAL MEANING OF THE CHARACTERS IN NAMES! really! trust me!

some examples: 菲律宾 (fei lu bin)， 阿塞拜疆(a sai bai jiang)，丹麦(dan mai) ， 挪威(nuo wei) etc。。。 they are as simple as 音译。AND ALL CHINESE SAY IT IS JUST 音译!!! so, how sad it is, but they really don't mean that armenia is a beautiful asian country they don't even know about its existence. most of the time they just use 美 “beautiful” for names. and HA HA, U DID ADMIT what i wrote in my 1st post: they just use 音译 of "ARMENIA" and it becomes 亚美尼亚 ！

[Anahit]

Oh， I forgot to write one more thing, that u are not gonna like: chinese don't view armenia as a european country. i have quite mixed feelings for that. 1st of all, europeans are known to be very selfish and cold (and i think that's true), so they don't consider armenians selfish and cold they say we must be very giving and warm-welcoming (can't find the right english word) people. and... ha ha NOT TAKE SEX AS "EASILY" AS EUROPEANS DO (if u get what i mean...) they call it "being traditional". so, i like when people think of me, as of an armenian, being traditional, kind, giving... things they don't think of europeans. BUT being an asian country also means being not developed, not having majority of people with high education... this point i don't like. so, i never know whether to be glad or sad for the way they think of us not being european. and in chinese books/articles etc. Armenia is always under "ASIA " section.

[TMNT]

Oh， I forgot to write one more thing, that u are not gonna like: chinese don't view armenia as a european country. i have quite mixed feelings for that. 1st of all, europeans are known to be very selfish and cold (and i think that's true), so they don't consider armenians selfish and cold    they say we must be very giving and warm-welcoming (can't find the right english word) people. and... ha ha NOT TAKE SEX AS "EASILY" AS EUROPEANS DO   (if u get what i mean...) they call it "being traditional". so, i like when people think of me, as of an armenian, being traditional, kind, giving... things they don't think of europeans. BUT being an asian country also means being not developed, not having majority of people with high education...  this point i don't like. so, i never know whether to be glad or sad for the way they think of us not being european. and in chinese books/articles etc. Armenia is always under "ASIA " section.

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Well, at least the Armenian alphabet has 38 letters instead of 845798375983275298047529457.

[Armen]

Oh， I forgot to write one more thing, that u are not gonna like: chinese don't view armenia as a european country. i have quite mixed feelings for that. 1st of all, europeans are known to be very selfish and cold (and i think that's true), so they don't consider armenians selfish and cold    they say we must be very giving and warm-welcoming (can't find the right english word) people. and... ha ha NOT TAKE SEX AS "EASILY" AS EUROPEANS DO   (if u get what i mean...) they call it "being traditional". so, i like when people think of me, as of an armenian, being traditional, kind, giving... things they don't think of europeans. BUT being an asian country also means being not developed, not having majority of people with high education...  this point i don't like. so, i never know whether to be glad or sad for the way they think of us not being european. and in chinese books/articles etc. Armenia is always under "ASIA " section.

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Well, that way if you say you're from former USSR they instatly consider you Russian. Following that logic they might consider Greeks Asian as well.

 

Officially, Armenia is considered Eastern Europe (东欧).

[Armen]

Armen jan, sorry, still can't take your theory. But theories don't always have to match the reality, so, in this case, it is ok to call it a theory, AND A VERY GOOD ONE   and, 1 more thing to say why i can't accept your theoty (the main reason is, that chinese reject your way)

Anahit jan, until you find out who coined those names, you realy can't say which is theory and which is reality. The fact that majority of the Chinese don't mean it doesn't prove anything for me.

is 长春 "long spring" . I LIVE HERE！！！ and we have NO SPRING！！！！！   when i heard that i had to study here, i also though it might be a very nice, "springy" city: now it is still 1 to 8 degrees!!! really cold! no green yet! so, once again, NEVER COUNT ON THE REAL MEANING OF THE CHARACTERS IN NAMES! really! trust me!

Anahit, how about when the spring starts. Isen't the weather in summer like it is long spring or it gets too hot? Isen't Chang Chun VERY green?

some examples:  菲律宾 (fei lu bin)， 阿塞拜疆(a sai bai jiang)，丹麦(dan mai) ， 挪威(nuo wei)  etc。。。  they are as simple as 音译。AND ALL CHINESE SAY IT IS JUST 音译!!! so, how sad it is, but they really don't mean that armenia is a beautiful asian country    they don't even know about its existence. most of the time they just use 美 “beautiful” for names. and HA HA, U DID ADMIT what i wrote in my 1st post: they just use 音译 of "ARMENIA" and it becomes 亚美尼亚 ！

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I never dissmised that it is also a 音译. It is both. I noted it several times in different places.

 

All of the countries you noted have explanation I will give them tomorrow. For example Norway - nuo wei - moving power. You might know that Norwegians are one of the decedants of the Vikings.

[Anahit]

Armen jan, WHAT U MEAN: "The fact that majority of the Chinese don't mean it doesn't prove anything for me." !!! after this sentence i don't know how i feel... don't forget that chinese language BELONGS TO CHINESE PEOPLE!!! NOONE KNOWS IT BETTER THAN THEY DO!!!! u are just a 老外 who hasn't even lived here long enough。。。 no, changchun's summer is not like spring and is not long AT ALL! it is not covered with green either!

the fact that armenia officially is considered "东欧" is what i tell them, but right away the question pumps out: "BUT IT IS IN ASIA!!!!" ARMEN JAN, GREECE IS NOT IN ASIA!!! i am sure u know! so no way for calling Greece an Asian country! and they don't consider eveyone from USSR russian: we simply don't look like! and don't write, pls that 菲律宾 means poor/unworthy-law-guest, CAUSE IT DOESN'T! even the foreigners i told about your "theory" laughed at me "Russia means a hungry country, France means country of law..." AYAYAYAYAY! Russia has always been stronger and wealthier than China untill MAYBE recently when chinese economy started booming (very unevenly, though)!!! Anyway, i have found NO SCHOLAR/TEACHER/ PROFESSOR to back your "theory". they all just laugh! But don't give up! Just tell your "theory" to foreigners who haven't been to china, or simply don't know chinese. IT REALLY SOUNDS VERY INTERESTING AND CONVINCING just not for an "insider".