ara baliozian Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 YOU WANNA SAVE THE NATION?****************************************Easy! All you do is wait until a messianic figure appears among us and you support the faction that is against his crucifixion; but don’t be surprised if the opposition wins and on the third day your messiah fails to rise from the dead. If, on the other hand, you want to overthrow the present rotten power structure, wait until a revolutionary appears and support him; but again, don’t be surprised if your side loses, or, if your side wins, you become one of the first victim of the new regime. As I see it, your best and safest bet is to be a reformer or support one; but again, there is no guarantee that your side will win or, if it does, things will work out according to plan. Speaking for myself: I have no messianic ambitions, none whatever! Neither am I a revolutionary or a reformer. All I want to do is understand and explain what’s going on; but if my critics are right, after twenty years of trying I have failed even in that endeavor. I don’t mind admitting that I have more questions than answers, and more doubts than certainties. And speaking of questions, allow me to conclude with one: Can any power on earth or in heaven save a nation that refuses to be saved? Or rather, can we even speak of a nation when all we have at our disposal is a collection of unruly tribes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted April 7, 2001 Report Share Posted April 7, 2001 Ara, Armenians are as much a collection of unruly tribes ar Germans, Italians or the English. So nothing unusual about that. Even though I find many of your ideas enlightening or at least quite amusing, my sense is that there is no hope whatsoever in the diaspora. The diaspora is just a temporary passage into disappearance, and as such need not to be addressed on an Armenian context. Being an Armenian in the diaspora is an individual rather than a collective matter. Diaspora communities are just an illusion that will vanish slowly before our eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 8, 2001 Report Share Posted April 8, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:YOU WANNA SAVE THE NATION?****************************************Speaking for myself: I have no messianic ambitions, none whatever! Neither am I a revolutionary or a reformer. That's sad. You could have made the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 8, 2001 Report Share Posted April 8, 2001 IT ALWAYS TAKES A GOOD MAN'S LIFE TO MAKE THE CHANGE. I guess that was what Jesus wanted to say.The critics of the regime in the Soviet Union numbered in thousands. Most of them were becomming dissidents(or just statistics). Two of them, Solzhenitsin and Sakharov, carried the burden for all of them (the critics) right to the end. What they did? Simple, they suffered in the prison. That's why the people remember THEIR names. We are mice. Everyone of us is afraid of losing his piece of cheese. We carry the crumbs of cheese to our ojakh and are happy that we were smart enough to get those crumbs. Yes we are smart, smart as the mice. Forseeing your question...wait until I'm 33. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 8, 2001 Report Share Posted April 8, 2001 Oh, I forgot. Hovhannes Tumanyan said it best in his "Mkneri Zhoghove". "Yes zhar asem, te zang kakhem?". Well, zang kakheq paronayq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted April 8, 2001 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2001 reply to my critics:***************************** There is no hope for the diaspora?To say that is to condemn the homeland to death.The azeris have oil;armenia has its diaspora.Whether you like it or not, we are like siamese twins;if one of us dies,the other may wither away too…please note that I said siamese twinsand not Cain and Abel! now, my reply to berj, who it seems, needs heroes and messiahs:well, my friend, I have nothing but contempt for a nation that needs to crucify its saviors. I am even prepared to call such a nation a bunch of sadistic bastards!Have a nice weekend! / ara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 11, 2001 Report Share Posted April 11, 2001 Hello Ara, I had a nice weekend! So, let's go on with heroes... "Azeries have oil" This is the first biggest lie. "if one of us dies,the other may wither away too…" That's the other one. "Azeries have oil" is a media cliche used for political propaganda. A country like p.e. Germany can utilize all Azeri oil in 6 months. Caspian oil is in Kazakhstan and the gas is in Turkmenistan. Azerbaijan is a transport route, so is Armenia. Armenia can and must live without diaspora's assistance. It has a reasonable amount of resources to develop an economy of a normal European country without having oil or gas deposits. Actually, the same Germany has only coal and aluminium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 11, 2001 Report Share Posted April 11, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:reply to my critics:*****************************I have nothing but contempt for a nation that needs to crucify its saviors. I am even prepared to call such a nation a bunch of sadistic bastards!All saviors of all nations have always been crucified, or at least stabbed in back. That's in the nature of the human being.Shall I give examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ara baliozian Posted April 12, 2001 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 MY REPLY TO BERJ********************Berj:Armenia must survive without the diaspora:that’s like sayingif a man can survive with one eye, one leg, one arm, and one kidney,why don’t we deprive him of these items?Are you sure you are not a sadist? All nations have crucified/backstabbed their messiahs:am I right in assuming you see nothing wrong in this?Are you implying, if others have behaved in that manner,why don’t we follow their example? As for examples:Instead of making a list of names, tell me in what way Socrates, Christ, and Gandhi helped their people? In what way Tolstoy and Solzhenitsyn helped Russia?Russians followed Lenin and Stalin,and the USSR collapsed because its structure was corrupt not because of what Solzhenitsyn wrote. To say Solzhenitsyn was behind the collapse of the USSR is to recycle Stalinist propaganda, because that’s exactly what Stalinists are saying today.Are you sure you are not a crypto-Stalinist? If, as you say, you are in your twenties,I suggest you be more receptive, my friend, and less bloodthirsty! / ara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 OF MICE AND MEN ***************************** There are people out there -- and I mean highly trained professionals – whose main job consists in introducing complexities where none exists. One could say that they are trained to take a simple straight line and to make of it a maze so intricate that even a mouse of genius could not extricate himself from it even if he tried for a thousand years. Which is where we come in. We might as well be that mouse at the mercy of professional charlatans who have created such a complex and serpentine maze around us that we have failed again and again to emerge from our tribal stage and establish our place in the sun as a nation. The enigma of our destiny? What nonsense! Understand this and consider the enigma (which was never there to begin with) solved. Ara Baliozian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:MY REPLY TO BERJ********************Berj:If, as you say, you are in your twenties,I suggest you be more receptive, my friend, and less bloodthirsty! / araMr. Baliozian,I'm sorry for being familiar and sarcastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:[QB]MY REPLY TO BERJ********************Berj:As for examples:Instead of making a list of names, tell me in what way Socrates, Christ, and Gandhi helped their people? In what way Tolstoy and Solzhenitsyn helped Russia?Russians followed Lenin and Stalin,and the USSR collapsed because its structure was corrupt not because of what Solzhenitsyn wrote. To say Solzhenitsyn was behind the collapse of the USSR is to recycle Stalinist propaganda, because that’s exactly what Stalinists are saying today.Are you sure you are not a crypto-Stalinist?Teachings of Socrates and Christ can be considered as general phylosophy. They were not directing it towards their national development. Gandhi helped Indian people a lot. Actually he created the present Indian state(leading it's struggle against the Brittish colonial rule). I think by Tolstoy you meen Alexei Tolstoy. I don't know much about him. Solzhenitsyn is considered to be the embodiment of anti-Stalinism. If his writings were not helpful, than we can also say that criticizm in general has no use agaist anything.Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 Mr. Baliozian, I want to add one more thing about Socrates. I think while he was thinking about different things, Aristotel practically tought Alexander the Great about the philisophy of conquering the world and the techniques of spreading of Hellenic culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:MY REPLY TO BERJ********************Berj:Armenia must survive without the diaspora:that’s like sayingif a man can survive with one eye, one leg, one arm, and one kidney,why don’t we deprive him of these items?Are you sure you are not a sadist?If one eye is damaged, there is no need to install the other damaged eye. Same conserns to all other organs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:MY REPLY TO BERJ********************Berj:All nations have crucified/backstabbed their messiahs:am I right in assuming you see nothing wrong in this?Are you implying, if others have behaved in that manner,why don’t we follow their example?I think I made it clear that I was not speaking on behalf of the hero-killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted April 14, 2001 Report Share Posted April 14, 2001 quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian:reply to my critics:*****************************There is no hope for the diaspora?To say that is to condemn the homeland to death.The azeris have oil;armenia has its diaspora.Whether you like it or not, we are like siamese twins;if one of us dies,the other may wither away too…please note that I said siamese twinsand not Cain and Abel! ara Dear Ara,As I said I respect your viewpoints. But don´t flatter yourself by calling me a critic. I have no such ambition. I simply put forward my opinion. Armenian will only be perpetuated in the homeland. The current situation is such that the diaspora has been helpful in rebuilding the country. As it happened in the case of Israel. Unfortunately the genesis of the independent Armenia was not to be with immigration to Armenia, but the opposite. We are not siamese twins. We are distant cousins, getting further apart everyday, collectively speaking. This is the unavoidable reality. Individuals or small groups will be in contact with Armenia. The rest will be just assimilated.Why don´t you go to Armenia and then write a book about it. I am sure it would be quite enlightening to your readers, among which I obviously count myself.But please give us a break with your Don Quijote complex, most people that address your points are just wind mills.[ April 14, 2001: Message edited by: Boghos ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted April 14, 2001 Report Share Posted April 14, 2001 You see Mr. Balozian, when your criticism is addressed to everybody or nobody, anyone can take the position of Servantes. [ April 14, 2001: Message edited by: Berj ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted April 15, 2001 Report Share Posted April 15, 2001 Berj jan, Thanks. I thought you were going to call me Sancho Panza´s vehicle. Windmill Boghos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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