Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Domino the haplotype (y chromosone) is a recessive allele in men, which originates in TURKS the m100+ is indication of Asian ancestry. Geneologists say that Turks were in fact the fathers of the Mongols, and they father of the Chinese, not the other way around. Its a turkic haplotype. m173 and m172 are most common in the Armenians of Armenia, then in Turkmenistan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Domino the haplotype (y chromosone) is a recessive allele in men, which originates in TURKS the m100+ is indication of Asian ancestry. Geneologists say that Turks were in fact the fathers of the Mongols, and they father of the Chinese, not the other way around. Its a turkic haplotype. m173 and m172 are most common in the Armenians of Armenia, then in Turkmenistan Are you escaping the topic Elbayr? There is many and many halotypes you can find more commonly among Armenians, this was not my question, I believe my question was simple, I am asking you which haloptype is found the highest among the Armenians than any other ethnic group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 ArmenSarq are you saying? Western Armenians are dispersed amongst the Eastern Meditarannean and Balkans, not the Caucus. A large majority were killed in something called the Genocide, and the rest assimilated into Turks (giving Turks a large European entity, along with Serbs and Greeks. There is less than 8% western armenian origins in Armenia. Otherwise theyd have Turkish last names and western pronounciations, and "ian" indicating western, and sometimes iranian. I have known western Armenians from Lebanon who moved back to Armenia when it gained independance. And just as fast moved back to Lebanon...post war... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Amongst which Armenians? Most tests are done in Armenia , hg2 (non recessive) that means its not dominant, then turks, romanians, bulgarians (other turkisized slavs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 ArmenSarq wtf are you saying? Western Armenians are dispersed amongst the Eastern Meditarannean and Balkans, not the Caucus. A large majority were killed in something called the Genocide, and the rest assimilated into Turks (giving Turks a large European entity, along with Serbs and Greeks. There is less than 8% western armenian origins in Armenia. Otherwise theyd have Turkish last names and western pronounciations, and "ian" indicating western, and sometimes iranian. I have known western Armenians from Lebanon who moved back to Armenia when it gained independance. And just as fast moved back to Lebanon...post war... Wrong, the entire population of Armenia's Shirak is from Mush, Sasun, Erzeroum and Kars. Major part of Gyumr's population is Mshetsi. The major part of Armenia's Gegharqunik marz are from Bayazed. There are numerous villages in Ararat valley with people from Van. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Vanecis (dikranagercis) and ararat region armenians, speak an eastern dialect of Armenian. Traditionaly, it was yes regionaly Western Armenia, but not Giligia or Galacia. The Vanecis sufferend the most trecherous persecutions (severe rapings, killings, burning of land) because VAN was a closed off region far from British grasp. They are not traditionall "western", as goes for the Ararat Armenians (all of the traditional Dikranagerci regions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Amongst which Armenians? Most tests are done in Armenia , hg2 (non recessive) that means its not dominant, then turks, romanians, bulgarians (other turkisized slavs). Elbayr, which Armenian or not is not at all important, if you did a research about HLA markers, alleles and haplotype, you won't have any difficulties answering to this question at all, we are not talking about chromozone Y, we are talking about the usual Class II alleles and such, if you had any Genetic book and really had done any researchs, you would know of what I am talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Either way there's no doubt In my mind that the Eastern and Western Armenians cant be pointed out. There is also a presence of Eastern Armenians (darker pigmented Armenians) in Lebanon and Iraq. Some of whome fled from Armenia and Iran, and some of whome came from Eastern Armenia (post WWII). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Vanecis (dikranagercis) and ararat region armenians, speak an eastern dialect of Armenian. Traditionaly, it was yes regionaly Western Armenia, but not Giligia or Galacia. The Vanecis sufferend the most trecherous persecutions (severe rapings, killings, burning of land) because VAN was a closed off region far from British grasp. They are not traditionall "western", as goes for the Ararat Armenians (all of the traditional Dikranagerci regions) OK, than name me the exact traditional Western Armenians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 (edited) fedix your talking about paleolithic times. that same allele* is found in all eastern/southern people. what else can I say? I still dont understand what your trying to ask me Edited December 16, 2003 by Elbayr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 (edited) fedix your talking about paleolithic times. that same y chromosome is found in all eastern/southern people. what else can I say? I still dont understand what your trying to ask me Elbayr I am NOT talking about paleolithic times, what you refered are markers from the Y chromozone used to find the distance between ethnic groups based on the "male" chromozone. What I am asking you is specific haplotypes combinations, Human leukocyte antigens, haplotype markers that are known to be the most frequent among the Armenians compared with others, there isen't billions, there is just one combination that by % varies to most compared to the rest of the other ethnic groups. Edited December 16, 2003 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 The Traditional Western Armenian States (now in Turkey/Syria) is as follows, as well as Armenian minorities(racial minorities), Cilicia/Giligia, who are seperated from western and eastern by Musa Dagh: Kessablanca (kessab), Aleppo, Mut, Anamur, Antyochia, Kilis, Antalya ancient hittite coastal regions Artaxata, and Kharpert, Moosh (north of tigranagert) Artvin and Pontus (lazestan) Caesarian (gazar) and Malatian, Sivas, Gatal Huyuk , Mersin, Haran  Amasya, Samsum, Karabuk, Giresin, Zonguldak (Bythanos Asia) Galatia, and the Celtic Galatians (seperate from armenians, yet religiously armenian) as for minorities The Galac (galatia), from the celtic islands, brunne/faelid, 75% reside in Yugoslavia The Hamsheci (Hameli) of Noric Meditarannean ancestry, in the Laz/pontic regions of Turkey, most of whome speak Hamsheci (an Armenian disguised as Turkish), written and spoken like turkish, most of whome are orthodox, some muslim, to evade Turkish attrocities. The Laz, also Armenian entity, essentially Hamshecis The Gughoy: ostrogothic settlements in central Armenia dating post-hunnic invasions, near regions of Sivas, east of Galacia  The list goes on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 um is it ht14? i dont know , educate me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 I also forgot the Dynars (no not Dinarics), ethnically ARMENOID, in western turkey The Mevedli (north west Turkey) ethnically meditarannean, linguistically un-classified, previously KIRAKOI SAI POLIS, in Byzantine (last written documentation of them)Â Sarekamis and Kars (both western), Â Van was more the meeting place of all Armenian Types, those who extended to Persia for trade and work, and those who absorbed caucasian/turkic tribes in the north such as Bulgars, Albans, Irjeks, Turcmens, Huns and Dengiz Lazes (deniz = uggro-finnic like Bulgars and Finns) settling in north eastern lazestan, today georgia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 And that would answer to my simple question? Face it Elbayr, your knowledge of Armenian DNA is near to non-existant. You wanted a challenge, I just asked you a question to see if you could have an intellectual debate which you asked to have.  You will find your answer in genetic classifications and HLA markers works, this same answer prove the hypotheses of Armenians originating from Basques(this is your clue) is very unlikely. Now that you have this clue, search your informations and when you would be enought educated about Armenian DNA, perhaps then you could come here and try to educate the members of this board. I think I have wasted too much time with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Â Fedi just tell me wan ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 (edited) OK, I got you. Traditional Western Armenia is mostly the lands that has never really been Armenian, right? Cilicia/Giligia, who are seperated from western and eastern by Musa Dagh: Kessablanca (kessab), Aleppo, Mut, Anamur, Antyochia, Kilis, Antalya ancient hittite coastal regions This lands has never been Armenia because they are simply not part of Armenian highland where the Armenian nation started and developed. Armenians moved to Cilicia starting from the fall of Baghratuni Kingdom in 1041. Do you think when Armenians moved to Cilicia it was a no man's land? It is an absurd right. Cilicia in 11 century was populated with mixed Greek, Assirian and Arab population. Assirians and Greek who were Chrisitan formed the ethnos of Cilician Armenia together with teh arrived Armenians. Artaxata, and Kharpert, Moosh (north of tigranagert) I told you already that there are many decendants of Mshetsis in Armenia. Actually what is Artaxata? Sounds like the Armenian capital city during the Artashesian Kingdom. It is situated on the present territory of Armenia. Artvin and Pontus (lazestan) You can find many Artvintsi Armenians in Armenia. They also live in Georgian and look like normal Armenians. I have met them many times and I can't distinguish them from the mainstream Armenian type. Same goes for the Hamshentsis from Sukhumi or Sochi. Caesarian (gazar) and Malatian, Sivas, Gatal Huyuk, Mersin, Haran,Amasya, Samsum, Karabuk, Giresin, Zonguldak (Bythanos Asia), Galatia, and the Celtic Galatians (seperate from armenians, yet religiously armenian) These lands have never been a part of Armenia Major. They were either in Armenia Minor, Tsopq or Kappadokia. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, one thing I get from your posts is that you don't want the lands of Armenia that where part of Central Armenian kingdoms to be counted as Armenian, right? Edited December 16, 2003 by ArmenSarg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Artaxata is a River that runs in from Georgia. You have to remember there was no real Armenia untill the time of Dikran, when most of these lands where indeed Armenian. When I say Armenian, Im talking about all these different people that evolved into one, as well as into Turks of Turkey. Pontus, Cilicia, were in fact Armenia, during tigranes time, previous to that, if you even consider Hittites your ancestors, all the regions I mentioned were under hittite control. If you consider Armenians, something other then Armens, like Hays? From Hayastan (Eastern Biainili Urartus/Semetic Assyroids) then yes, they are not Hays. There are a people called Galac who speak a language that is half Armenian and half galatian, the armenian word BROTHER comes from the galatian ELBAYRUS or ELBAYR (in my SN) translated to the rough armenian EKHPAIR , where l = kh Just as Macedonia was never "Greece", it has always remained a Greek state, untill present slavic/turkic inhabitants. so are you to tell me cypriots are not greek because it is far from the state of Greece? The nations borders to not divide the people, is it the culture that makes a people. Hence why im NATIONALISTIC, and not POLITICALLY interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Heres some maps for you to look at: Armenian Genocide based on population in regions http://www.gomidas.org/images/khanzadian_450.jpg Wilsons Treaty http://people.bu.edu/kaz/heenhayastan.jpg Cilicia http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:pkb1...CCiliciaMap.jpg  http://perso.club-internet.fr/ddersark/pictures/map2.jpg http://www.cilicia.com/pics/maps/genocide-...quartersize.gif http://member.nifty.ne.jp/armenahit/northeast.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbayr Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Cappadocia, Pontus, Galatia, Cilica, etc are all Armenian states (governed by Rome) by Armenian princes, at one point in time Galatia suffered racial persecution by Greeks and Armenians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Artaxata is a River that runs in from Georgia. Never heard of it. The main rivers running south from Georgia are Qour and Rioni. You have to remember there was no real Armenia untill the time of Dikran, when most of these lands where indeed Armenian. Sounds like Intanbul University again. Everybody knows that "Armenia" and its king Ervand were at least mentioned in 6th century BC by Darius I. At that time Armenia's capital was Ervandashat (Ararat valley). When I say Armenian, Im talking about all these different people that evolved into one, as well as into Turks of Turkey. Pontus, Cilicia, were in fact Armenia, during tigranes time, previous to that, if you even consider Hittites your ancestors, all the regions I mentioned were under hittite control. Very much like Istanbul University If you consider Armenians, something other then Armens, like Hays? From Hayastan (Eastern Biainili Urartus/Semetic Assyroids) then yes, they are not Hays. There are a people called Galac who speak a language that is half Armenian and half galatian, the armenian word BROTHER comes from the galatian ELBAYRUS or ELBAYR (in my SN) translated to the rough armenian EKHPAIR , where l = kh Obviously Insanbul University Just as Macedonia was never "Greece", it has always remained a Greek state, untill present slavic/turkic inhabitants. so are you to tell me cypriots are not greek because it is far from the state of Greece? The nations borders to not divide the people, is it the culture that makes a people. Aha, the Greeks are not realy Greeks. This one is clearly an outcome of cooperation between Instanbul and Ankara Universities. Hence why im NATIONALISIC, and not POLITICALLY interested Well I'm very POLITICALLY motivated. And I don't care where Armenians come from or how they look or who they mixed with, as far as they identify themselves as Armenian, try to contribute to the Armenian cause and feel themselves OK with other nations of the world. And one thing that I can assure you that will never happen in present days is Armenians being sabotaged by good-old High Porta  The main pattern in you posts was Istanbul University Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 OMG, you guys are still going on about this, aren't ya? http://www.student.yorku.ca/~shoghig/dan/head.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Dan, this threads rating is down, eh. What's the most popular one right now? I'm having difficulties in engaging in the proper threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 (edited) Dan, this threads rating is down, eh. What's the most popular one right now? I'm having difficulties in engaging in the proper threads i'm just saying it's simply pointless to argue with people like Elbayr - someone who says that western Armenians "deserve" more respect is just not worth my time at any rate, no matter how knowledgeable he/she may be in anthropology, history, etc. it's not about thread popularity or anything. i'm probably involved in the most notorious threads, so i'm not into that popularity thing. Edited December 16, 2003 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 And are we sure this is Tashnaq Zinvor? I have my doubts... but i might be wrong.. Bingo Dan! Way to go man!!! You're a genius! Look at these. Keyword "depigmented". http://armenians.com/forum/index.php?showt...&hl=depigmented http://armenians.com/forum/index.php?showt...t=0entry72310 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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