Foolish Armenians

[A_D_G]

ADG, the only thing worth discussing here is why so many (young) Armenians are so obsessed with race that they even go to great lengths to write their college papers on it.

I'll tell you exactly why, we are obsessed with race! The fact that there are hundreds of millions of all other races, be it, white, black, asian etc.. but yet we are a dying breed, so we need 2 keep our identity. We did not get slaughtered 2 say we are white. Where were all our white allies, when they were killing us off. In fact why do we talk so bad about muslims, when the arabs took us in when they were wiping us out. Yet we love the Germans for masterminding our executions? Why because Germans are white?? So all is forgiven, because some1 is white???? Damn right this is a topic worth obsessessing, becuase it is insane!!! Besides all that Please just take a look at us!!! How is this debateable at all!! I'll be damned, if some ignorant Armenian Ass, is gonna come in here and say we are a part of the most monsterous, diabolic, white devil race, that has ruined this earth!!!! Why be a part of this, when they helped execute us, and all we are 2 them, is worthless oriental slaves! Yeah that is how they used 2 refer 2 us. So do not tell me this is not worth talkin about, I will die for this, and take any1 2 war over this issue! I am willing 2 die for it, cuz it is a genocide!! So do not tell me a genocide is not worth discussing or dying for. HYE Fedayee, I will set our people free!

Get over it, we do not look like them, our culture is nothing like theirs, and they hate us!! ARMENIAN PRIDE

[Harut]

but yet we are a dying breed, so we need 2 keep our identity.

last time i check Arabs are breeding like crazy (as you said, they are part of our race, aren't they), yet the population in Germany is on decline.

[A_D_G]

Hey Harut we don't consider Armenians Arabs at all. But you wanted the technical definition of our race and that is caucasoid. However, I consider Armenians to be their own separate race different from anyone else. THE RACE IS CALLED ARMENIANS. Edited October 15, 2003 by A_D_G

[Harut]

Hey Harut we don't consider Armenians Arabs at all. But you wanted the technical definition of our race and that is caucasoid. However, I consider Armenians to be their own separate race different from anyone else. THE RACE IS CALLED ARMENIANS.

so, if you consider armenians a separate race, what's the difference if we are associated with whites (europeans) or caucasoids (middle easterns)? what's all the angre about?

 

btw, your last statement could be a great phd dissertation. you should consider it.

 

btw2, there is a fault in your logic. if arabs are part of the same race as armenians, it doesn't mean armenians are arabs.

[Sip]

THE RACE IS CALLED ARMENIANS.

Hahahaahha... Well you (all of you whoever 'we' is) is a pretty funny bunch.

[A_D_G]

so, if you consider armenians a separate race, what's the difference if we are associated with whites (europeans)

Armenians are nothing like whites. Why try to be like nazis that hate us and want to kill us? We are ARMENIAN period. We aren't anything else but Armenian. Besides the fact that we look nothing like white people, why would we even want to be a part of their race when they don't want us? Simple logic. You guys have to just be proud of who you are and we as Armenians don't have to be a part of other cultures to fit in. Just be proud of who we are. Armenians have survived so many hardships in history until today. When someone asks oh what are you? Just be proud and say "I'm Armenian." Isn't that something to be proud of on its own??

[Sip]

Armenians are nothing like whites. Why try to be like nazis that hate us and want to kill us? We are ARMENIAN period. We aren't anything else but Armenian. Besides the fact that we look nothing like white people, why would we even want to be a part of their race when they don't want us? Simple logic. You guys have to just be proud of who you are and we as Armenians don't have to be a part of other cultures to fit in. Just be proud of who we are. Armenians have survived so many hardships in history until today. When someone asks oh what are you? Just be proud and say "I'm Armenian." Isn't that something to be proud of on its own??

No not the way you're talking

[A_D_G]

How's wisconsin?

[Sip]

AWESOME!!!! But it's been pretty warm ... they tell me it tends to get a bit chilly at times so we'll see

[Harut]

hey Sip, you should move back to la and feel like real armenian. what the heck are you doing in that whiteman's land in the north?!

[America-Hye]

After my mothers death, I was responsible for her papers, as my brother is too involved in his business to care about family, nostalgia or even his child. I found my mother's naturalization papers. She was a young woman then. I was shocked when I saw her picture. She looked like an Ethiopian, or like an English/Ethiopian mix. It was not only the color of her skin, but her features as well. My dad's naturalization papers showed a picture of a purely European man, light hair, green eyes. Yet both were Armenian (my mother was 1/4 Assyrian, 3/4 Armenian). In her papers, I found a letter from my grandmother's brother's wife to my maternal grandmother. This sister-in-law had viciously written my grandmother when her daughter was married. She compared the two cousins as "Germageh kenatz, Seva menatz." Even my mother's own family regarded her as "Sev." My late mother was a model for a famous painter. I have a drawing of her dressed in Native American garb, the painting entitled "Dream Girl."

[THOTH]

A-H

 

In a similar vein - my mother (full Armenina) was always considered by certain/some members of my father's family as "black" or such - and she was ostrascized for this - causing her all sorts of grief - as can be imagined. Curiously my sister and I were never stigmatized such (to my knowledge). Funny/sad how people can be...and for what really? What difference does it at all make in the scheme of things?

[sev-mard]

That is interesting fellas. I have a reverse situation in my family. My great grandmother was half white, product of master-slave affair on the island of Antigua. This didn't matter with the rest of the all black pairing until my grandmother had my aunt with a white american sailor who was station there. This produced my aunt who is very jermadz compared to my sev mother. My aunt in turn had her children with white sailors as well, creating essentially a 'white' wing of my black family. In the carribean this was dealt with many different ways, everything from hate to appeal. It's definately intersting at family functions, or when people see me and my cousins and wonder what we're all doing together.

 

A question to you, THOTH & America-hye...in the haykakan community is the lighter shade considered better? You were saying that both your mothers were somewhat ostracized for being 'sev' in one way or another, do lighter armenians get more 'love' or respect. In your personal experiences of course.

 

Peace

[America-Hye]

When my paternal grandmother was just 12 years old, the wealthiest man in their city arranged for the marriage of this young girl to his son. Although her family was also well off, yet not at the same level as the boy's day, they were of another branch of Christianity. There were many other possible girls to marry this boy of the same religion. Such marriages between Catholic and Gregorian were unheard of in that time. Yet this blond blue-eyed girl was sought after by this powerful man. Does that answer your question Sev-Mard?

[sev-mard]

Ok....I see what you're saying. Was/is that the norm you think?

[America-Hye]

Yes and no. The blond women and men do get extra attention at Armenian social events. Yet the darker beauties and handsome guys do also. Armenians are, however, VERY status conscious. Staus counts. Every panchoonie drives a BMW or a Mercedes, yet many live in a ramshackle two story walk-up apartment in East Hollywood or the poorer southern section of Glendale.

[hyebruin]

SEV-MARD i have a question for you...maybe you can clarify something for me! why is it that referring/describing somebody as 'black' is perceived as insulting/degrading and african-american is more appropriate??? i mean are all blacks in the u.s. identifying themselves with the old country? keeping african tradition and all that? pardon me if my question seems too simplistic, but i simply do not know/understand and i'm just trying to understand the mentality/psychology ...i've heard of 'black pride'...so how come this term is not viewed as an un-pc thing to say, but if you say 'black' (especially coming from someone with light skin), then that person is considered ignorant/disrespectful/racist?

---also do the majority of black people in the u.s. follow farrakhan's ideology? 'cause i was shocked when i heard some of his remarks!!! he's just as bad as the white counterpart!

[THOTH]

---also do the majority of black people in the u.s. follow farrakhan's ideology? 'cause i was shocked when i heard some of his remarks!!! he's just as bad as the white counterpart!

'Bruin - where ya been livin girl? Can you really imagine that most Black folk care much at all for Farrakhan and his extreemist views? In fact most black peoiple in this country are perhaps (essentially...or little or) no different than you or I. Sure -- there are some difference between folks with money and those without...those who livce in the city and those who live in the country (or suburbs or whatever)...but essentially most black people - and other ethnicities or what have you - live (and think) essentially just the same as anyone else (or perhaps more accuratly with just as much variability)...etc

 

I found when I was living in LA (15-20 years ago) how much the black community was essentially a non-factor - as compared to here/back East...what I mean by that is that in LA it was pretty much the hispanics who occupied the "black" role - that of being the despised/resented/looked down upon/whatever minority. Much of the same types of comments that many (white) folks here in the East make about blacks - were the same sort of things that peoplein LA said about Mexicans/hispanics...funny huh? And most black people more or less fit in and mixed in - more or less unoticed (that they were anything "different"...sure some exceptions of course...and some areas of LA - like Inglewood or South-Central had a somewhat similar rep (deservedly to some degree)...as similar (embattled and more or less segregated...) neighborhoods here in the east...

 

Don't know if any of that makes any sense to anyone...but oh well...just thought it might be interesting...

[bellthecat]

i mean are all blacks in the u.s. identifying themselves with the old country? keeping african tradition and all that?

 

 

---also do the majority of black people in the u.s. follow farrakhan's ideology? 'cause i was shocked when i heard some of his remarks!!! he's just as bad as the white counterpart!

I would argue that the number of "African Americans" that give Africa even a thought just once or twice a year is tiny. Most other ethnic groups in America believe that they still have some emotional or cultural connection with the lands of their ancestors, but "Africans" in America seem to be unique in that they seem to care nothing about Africa and do nothing to help current problems in Africa. If Africa is noticed at all it is only because a few "African Americans" use it to reinforce their advantageous "victim-status" in America, and a few others use it to invent ludicrous concepts like a black Cleopatra or "Black Athena".

 

Probably all this is because there is culturally actually no such thing as an "African" any more than there is such a thing as a "European" or an "Asian" - and because of the way their ancestors arrived in America, and because of the artificial borders of most modern African states, most "African Americans" have no way of identifying with a more specific area of Africa - somewhere that would have a more human, more emotional scale.

 

As for racism amongst "African Americans", I would also argue that they are one of the most racist ethnic groups in America today. And, although they are probably not as racist as say the Chinese, their racism is more dangerous since it involves a lot of damaging self-stereotypes.

[hyebruin]

interesting commentary, guys

[sev-mard]

Within the community there is varying degrees. Some want to be called African-American, many don't and some want to be called Black, many don't and many take it either way. It is hard for american blacks as members of the african diaspora because we are so far removed from the 'origins' that connections are hard. Like someone said , its hard to trace where in africa you may have been from, many ppl can't trace back their family in america too far due to slavery, or lack of records of slaves and the like. I can get back as far as West Africa, my parents are from the West Indies, islands where it is said those blacks living there came from West Africa.

 

Someone also said that black don't care about africa, but it's also like 'what do you care about...all of if?' Where the haykakan can say "hayaser, and hayastan sirumem" Are black going to love the entire continent of Africa, love as in support and research, and assist. It's a delicate situation.

 

"If Africa is noticed at all it is only because a few "African Americans" use it to reinforce their advantageous "victim-status" in America, and a few others use it to invent ludicrous concepts like a black Cleopatra or "Black Athena". "

 

Well this is not totally right, nor a bad thing. Many races try and play up there victim status. A cornerstone of supposed "Armenian-ness" is the fact that the genocide happened and Armenians need to stick together and that is rationale for some of the racist, seperatist views of certain Hyer. As for black athena, i could care less, I don't need to adopt greek ideals to prove my worth. Those same greeks studied in african nations and egypt as well to learn many of concepts that they claim as their own, but that's a side note.

 

As for racism amongst "African Americans", I would also argue that they are one of the most racist ethnic groups in America today. And, although they are probably not as racist as say the Chinese, their racism is more dangerous since it involves a lot of damaging self-stereotypes.

 

I would have to agree somewhat with this. Unfortunately I get a lot more flack from my own people when they see me with my girlfriend then I do from other people. But there is a lot of history tied up in that. Look up the ideas of Willie Lynch, a slave owner from american history, who gave a speech detailing the best way to keep blacks in slave indefinately. Old Southern whites created a mental form of 'prison' and various nefarious tactics designed to break the black family and mind, mentally, socially and religiously.....unfortunately many of my people are still under these binds. There is a long way to go, but that is no different from many other cultures/ethnicities/races on this here globe.

 

 

bellthecat, I'd like to hear some more of what you have to say about it. You seemed to be opinionated on this topic.