America-Hye Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 How many of us are arrested for stealing from our own people? Do you know that relatives even conceal facts to blantantly steal from their own families? They think that they have this right because as conservatives they hold a higher moral ground, especially if their relatives have married Jews or are considered undesirables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfArmenia Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 Dude, what in the hell is wrong with you? Christ, I hate people who stand on a soapbox and condemn everyone not like them! This isn't about me not liking you, since I don't know you. I don't like it when you not only try to divide the Armenian community, but also group thousands of individuals as "despicable Armenian conservatives" and insult them. turk kitsats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Hey Knight - I'm not sure if you got the point behind Hagarag's rant. I don't think he's trying to 'divide' Armenians. As backwords (and generalised) as it seems, I think he's trying to rail against those that do... but maybe I'm misinterpreting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfArmenia Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 His other posts blast at the "religious right" because of their views on homosexuality. From what I've seen, he has a solid set of ethics and morals, and is outraged that that the Armenian community at large, or at least the religious Armenian community (though he has blasted the entire community as well), disagrees with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 If I may, and I apologize in advance as I'm trying to justify his attitude and 'rants' on this forum, so this is merely conjecture - His problem, though he directs it at the 'religious right', is really with deeply ingrained 'old-world' attitudes that do not tolerate more liberal viewpoints/lifestyles. The Armenian community is represented often by old-world type thinking, categorized by the following: deeply religious, anti-mixed-marriage, intolerant towards homosexuality, and in general, resistant to change. He has been chastised, or ostracised by these types of attitudes and is attempting to expose their destructive influence. I think deep down, his means to encourage more tolerance within the community, so that future generations can adapt - without fear of reprisals from family/community leaders etc. Perhaps I'm completely mistaken, but that's how I interpret some of his posts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfArmenia Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 If that IS his reasoning, then it is more acceptable, although it opens a new can of worms. Mixed marriages are frowned upon simply because there aren't that many of us LEFT; the majority of half-breeds tend to NOT consider themselves Armenian (I can't explain how much I hate the statement "oh, my dad is Armenian"). Some things, I agree, should change; homosexuality is an inbalance in the brain that happens before birth; the vast majority of the time, it is not a choice. But since the Bible's view towards this is pretty clear, it is stupid to be angry at the Church for not approving. And you really should look back; gamavor has reason for calling him things like "Mehmet." Some of the things he rails against are mainstays in our culture to the point of defining our culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Hagarag is our alter -consciousness, but in order to fully understand him you should look here: http://armenians.com/forum/index.php?showt...=985&hl=mustafa On the other hand from time to time he has "bright" moments and is very agreeable which means that he is not totally lost. And recently I stopped calling him "Mehmet". No offense Moshe, just friendly talk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Great thread, gamavor! Thanks for posting. Regarding this particular subject (Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder), MJ really knows what he is talking about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 vava is no doubt one of our more optimist, balanced and well meaning members. And we know we tend to lack in this type of people. However I think he errs: Hagarag is not this sort of well meaning character who tries to bring Armenians into the 21st century as to values, tolerance and so on. He is more of a Jekyll and Hide character, someone with a pronounced bipolarity that has acused people left and right of being conservative, bourgeois, not true Armenian, Levantine, Sovietized what have you more often than not without any knowledge of what he was talking about. He also believes that were not for a variety of factors that conspired against him he would no doubt be the most successful 1/8 Assyrian 7/8 Armenia, 8/8 Jewsih, 8/8 Chinese person on earth. Actually perhaps he is such a person. He is a bore of a postmaster. That´s what he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 This thread reminds me of the story"Gimpel the fool "by Isaac Bashevis Singer (Don’t know why)Full version below. It is a short story worth readinghttp://www3.telus.net/Gimpel_Family/Gimpelthefool.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted August 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Boghos, The pampered son of a successful physician. Never had to struggle for anything in his life. Psychoanalyzing me. Casting apersion on my motives. Cafes are blooming in central Yerevan while a majority of people in the ROA can barely put food in their and their childrens mouths. You sit there in South America in your comfortable existence and make pronouncements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted August 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Vava, You are more perceptive than most here. My perspective on the Armenian community is based upon the circimstances with which I entered it and the circumstances with which I left it. My formative years were outside the Armenian community. While my earliest recollections include the memory of Armenian and some Armenian-cultured Assyrian relatives, I was raised far from the community. I had little involvement with the community during my formative years. This changed as I reached adulthood. My part-Assori mother was not happy that our father had isolated us from the community and therefore immersed us in it, after my father died. I was very active in the community for about 10 years, even holding numerous positions in Armenian organizations. It can not be claimed that I am unfamiliar with the Armenian community as this association was in diverse parts of the US. The causes of the White Genocide are VERY apparent to me. The causes of the fracturing of Armenian influence on the world stage are also VERY apparent to me. You understand what I am attempting to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 How many of us are arrested for stealing from our own people? Do you know that relatives even conceal facts to blantantly steal from their own families? They think that they have this right because as conservatives they hold a higher moral ground, especially if their relatives have married Jews or are considered undesirables. I tried to understand your post: actually read it twice and found no foundation to anything. Yes generally people do despicable things even to their relatives but that is what being human being is in addition to million other characteristics. Armenians or none Armenians does not matter. You simply generalize without merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 I love Hagarag. He's one of the very few here who make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 (edited) Boghos, The pampered son of a successful physician. Never had to struggle for anything in his life. Psychoanalyzing me. Casting apersion on my motives. Cafes are blooming in central Yerevan while a majority of people in the ROA can barely put food in their and their childrens mouths. You sit there in South America in your comfortable existence and make pronouncements.Hagarag, hagarag, you poor fool, what do you know about me ? You just repeat that my father is a succesful doctor...so what ? You know nothing else and as far as I know why should you. You live in your small little make believe world. That most of us know for a long time. I just write to see if the village fool has something more creative instead of repeating the same stupidities: he doesn´t. So we can´t have fun with him. We have nairi it is true, but she is still young. There is some hope for her. Edited August 22, 2003 by Boghos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Boghos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted August 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Boghos, I guess what you were really thinking is that "She is young, there is still hope that we can brainwash her." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted August 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Boghos, Step out of your skin. As an experiment, leave your present identity. For a year travel far from the Armenain community and convince yourself that you are perhaps a German/Portuguese Brazillian, or perhaps a Mestizo. Look at yourself and our culture from the OUTSIDE. Assess what is going on in the ROA and the Armenian diaspora from a dispassionate perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Boghos, I guess what you were really thinking is that "She is young, there is still hope that we can brainwash her." Right on. I am part of a wroldwide conspiracy just to do that. BTW, hagarag, where is your book ? Has ATAA agreed to publish it yet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted August 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 I don't know the word for mestizo in Portuguese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 (edited) Boghos, Step out of your skin. As an experiment, leave your present identity. For a year travel far from the Armenain community and convince yourself that you are perhaps a German/Portuguese Brazillian, or perhaps a Mestizo. Look at yourself and our culture from the OUTSIDE. Assess what is going on in the ROA and the Armenian diaspora from a dispassionate perspective.Look I have been very critical of both and especilally diaspora community life for a long time. I am even known for that here in Brazil as I also was at the ASA at McGill. So stop talking nonsense. I could give you much more, but why should I bother trying to convince you of anything while you just stick to your fantasies regardless ? Edited August 23, 2003 by Boghos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted August 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 ATAA?? That is a cheap shot, Boghos. What you want is NO discussion WHATSOEVER that may challenge traditional Armenian values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 (edited) ATAA?? That is a cheap shot, Boghos. What you want is NO discussion WHATSOEVER that may challenge traditional Armenian values.Of course it is a cheap shot. Armenia traditional values ? If you you just knew what idiocy this is you would be ashamed of yourself from here to eternity. But who is going to pull you out of Disneyland by hagarag ? Once your fantasies are over, you have nothing left to go on, right ? Edited August 23, 2003 by Boghos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 I don't like how this thread is going. No more personal insults, or i'll flex my muscles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted August 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 There is NO reason for me to have any shame. Perhaps those like you who want to curtail free thought in our community should have shame. The future of our communty worldwide has been curtailed by just the type of thinking that you profess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.