Pierre Loti

[DominO123]

Pierre Loti, in my mind, would be the first official denialist of the Armenian genocide in the Western World.

 

A little bit of research, and we find interesting constatations.

 

Loti has been criticised for what would be known later as racism(the term did not really existed in his time or was not used), Loti was known to support and justify slavery and innequality between blacks and whites, and using the blacks as slaves. Loti himself dressed like Ottoman *****s, and felt in love with a Turkish women, this of course is what has been reported by others, since it was known that he was Gay, and admitted it indrectly in various of his works and adventures, and what was his plan to build a harem to himself, was probably a harem of men and boys.

 

In his work about the massacres in Armenia) Les massacres d'Arménie, we find out that 17 lignes have been censured by the editor or possibly the French accademia. The Turks here find an occasion to allege that it has been censured because it was telling the truth, or that the truth should not have been gone out during the war.

 

This is a lie, I am near finding a copy of the manuscript that would probably contain those 17 lignes, but it is not hard to imagine what was written in, since Loti himself was known to treat the Armenians as slaves and justify the Ottoman view of the Armenians, it is said that he himself excused to the Armenian people for all those racistic things he said about them.

 

I will come with more informations about him when I have time.

[DominO123]

How could I have forgotten, when of his racistic expression about the Armenians.

 

Here an English translation would be.

 

Allah has created from the same essence, the hare and the Armenian.

 

OK, another one.

 

The Armenians are Jews so Jewish - so much raptors, so much vultures and vampire-that the true israelites, crushed by the Armenian conccurence, die literally of hunger in Turkey

Edited July 30, 2003 by Fadix

[DominO123]

Here a little about him, just posted recently in a French Armenian forum.

 

http://netarmenie.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=1871

 

I may translate it and post other references later.

[DominO123]

To speak now about the Armenian race is more painful to me than one would want to believe, because the excess of their misfortunes would make of them almost sacred; also I would do it only enought that will be necessary to defend my friends to be too calumniated. If I could claim and to support that all the French who lived Turkey, even our monks and our nuns, give to the Turks their regard and their affection, on the other hand I believe that one would find hardly one on a hundred among us, who has good memories of these unhappy Armenians. All those which had with them any relations, fashionable or businesses - businesses especially - are diverted soon with antipathy. As much as I am concerned, perhaps maybe I fell on the wrong persons, but I can attest that with rare exceptions, I met on their premises only moral cowardice, cowardice, unpleasant processes and cheating. And as I understand that their duplicity and their easy way are repugnant to the Turks, who are in businesses the uprightness! Their worst enemies are the first to recognize it.

 

I would almost dare to say that the Armenians are in Turkey like rodent worms in a fruit, draining with them all the gold [ here, note: Five are needed Grecs to make am Armenian (Eastern proverb) ], by any means, wear especially, like at one time the Jews in Russia. Into the most lost villages, to the bottom of the campaigns, one finds them, lending to the small week, and soon it is necessary to refund them, sell oxen and the plough, and then the soil, and then the family house. All that, it goes without saying, increases the exasperation which they already cause by this role that one allots to them, not without reason, to be continual informers which excite against Islam all the Christians, catholics or orthodoxe, and which brings all the Occident against the Turkish fatherland.

 

But all these objections - and so much of others still - reasons to exterminate them? To God don't please if such an idea came to me one moment! On the contrary, if my humble voice had some chance to be heard, I would beg Europe, which delayed already too much, I would beg it to intervene, protect the Armenians and to isolate them, since there exists between them and the Turks, since centuries, an absolutely irreducible reciprocal hatred, that we indicates some places in Asia to them an Armenian soil, where they will be their own Masters, where they will be able to correct their tares acquired in the constraint, and to develop in peace and the qualities which they still have - because they have qualities; I grant that they are hard, persevering, that certain patriarchal side of their life of family orders the respect. And, finally, although it is perhaps secondary, they have the physical beauty, which in Occident is erased more and more by the excess of the instruction, the mental fatigue, the fatal factory and alcohol; I could not think without a special melancholy of these massacred women who, for the majority undoubtedly, had admirable eyes of velvet...

 

 

Edited July 30, 2003 by Fadix

[America-Hye]

Domino,

 

For all your breath of knowledge, you know nothing of the nuances of human sexuality. Pierre Foti was not a friend of the Armenians, but how do you know the exact level of his homosexuality? He may have been attracted to both sexes. Does he not speak of the Armenian women having eyes of velvet? I know personally of one very famous Armenian, with wife and children, who was most definitely bisexual. Not everyone who is hiding homosexual yearnings has no sexual interest in women.

 

There were other Europeans who gleefully practiced the torture of Armenian clergy, the son of one Italian physiciian for example. This homosexual absolutely hated Armenians.

 

My suspicion is that much of the hated toward Armenians emanated from European homosexuals and bisexuals close to the Ottoman elite. It was an eye-for-an-eye response to the anti-homosexual pronouncements of so many Armenian priests and notables.

[DominO123]

LOL ! Hagarag, it is the Hypophysis that is suspected to be responsable of the attraction, woman hormons actings slightly differently than those of men, a real bisexual man is pretty rare, while it is not for woman, it is believed that bisexuality among man the majority of times could be explained by a supression of homosexuality. Man-man attraction before and the first years of teen ages, is pretty common, because it is during puberty, at the same time there is an attraction to woman, when there is a balance problem, it is the attraction for man that takes the lead.

 

There has been many behavioral studies about the chimistry of attraction, and the reason why a man for example will developpe an attraction for woman, brain activities and subject like that are as well one of my favoured hobbies, I am far from being ignorant on the subject.

 

Beside that, Loti was a supressed homosexual, not a bisexual, even the Turkish women he invented for his works, that he was supposedly in love with, there is some informations that it may have been a man. He felt in love with another men, while still married, while there has been records of his accounters with men, there were none about him feeling anything real for woman, every accounter he had with woman, and where he wrote in his books about them, were pure inventions, as well even his mariage with his wife was a marriage of "reason" the way he found the Armenian woman beautifull, he said the same about Turkish woman, all his life he tried to excuse himself of why he didn't felt strong attraction for woman, giving excuses such as it was the product of the industralised world.

 

One of the reasons why Loti liked the Turks, was because in his time, Europe was considering homosexuals as beasts, while in Turkey, it was considered as a natural thing.

 

http://www.personal.kent.edu/~rberrong/mcl...cls76/lotib.htm

 

You can read here about Loti homosexuality.

[America-Hye]

Yes, it was considered the natural thing in Turkey. It is known that Ataturk himself had relations with boys. So the American conservative George Will feels that a man like Ataturk should govern California? Yet, I am sure that he will not support his fellow Republican Huffington should Gray Davis be recalled. This bisexual was married to a Greek immigrant and fathered two daughters. I am sure that he will support one of the right-wingers, Issa, McClintlock or Simon.

 

Are we are getting into aspects of the Genocide that have not been discussed before????

[gamavor]

Fear is the other name of hate. We hate turks for very good reason, but do we hate them only for that reason. We fear them. Naturally. But the other way around is true too. They fear us even more (meaning hate). Why? Because we are fearfull. We don't know the meaning of the word mercy and forgiveness.

Same applies to some Western "intellectuals". They fear us. We are one of the best educated people on Earth, we are industrious, we are intelligent, strong and beautiful. That is why they fear us. They have only one consolation - we are disunited. Once we achieve that, on the next day you will see Tigran the Great marching on the plains of Western Anatolia and the trembling of the Neo- Romans.

Edited July 30, 2003 by gamavor

[DominO123]

Hagarag, if I would want to discuss about aspects of the genocide, I could bring things that you probably have never seen anywhere yet. I prefer to keep those things for now.

 

There is much much aspects about the genocide that could be discussed about well more than those few things one can find on the web, I can start talking about those over 20 concentration camps, their locations, how they were structured etc... the eradication of the children, about the special organisation, the German complicity, even German leaders in one of the branchs of the special organisation etc...

 

The little denialist web-sites you find on the web thinks that the Armenian arguments are based on what they read from Armenian web-sites and few Turkish works that talk about "Armenian sources and allegations." They do not imagine how their allegations could be debunked, they have no idea of the documentations, sources that they even ignore the existance of.

 

But still, I will be presenting few new aspects, from here and there, like I already do.

 

 

Ah and, Pedophelia is more common than bisexuality among man, and when I am talking about pedophelia, I am talking about those man that could have feelings for woman and at the same time being attracted by boys.

 

I don't know about Ataturk, it is "said" about, but I don't know how to take that, since I didn't found clear evidences which will make it more than rumours. But it was known that Ataturk had problem with alchool and woman.

[America-Hye]

Yes, Gamavor, the answer is UNITY. When we are united, nothing can stop us. How close we came to getting a Genocide resolution passed in the US Congress in 2000. When Armenians worldwide put aside all their differences and work toward common goals we will be invinceable. Perhaps Ara Abrahamyan is the point man on this.

[America-Hye]

Domino,

 

You must be Dadrian or another prominent Armenian Genocide scholar! I know of the camps and some of the horrible things that were done to Armenians there.

 

There is so much deception in this world. Would you have thought ten years ago that the scandals in the Catholic church would reach such proportions? Do not go with established studies and beliefs. I would prefer to go with my own experiences and knowledge. My former roomate, scion of one of America's wealthiest families is now happily married to a woman and has three children.

 

My marriage was a failure, yes, but my ex-wife has had other failed marriages and I still am attracted to women. I am sick and tired of scientists telling me things that I know not to be true.

[Stormig]

You can read here about Loti homosexuality.

Excuse me, but why would anyone want to? :zoink:

[DominO123]

You can read here about Loti homosexuality.

Excuse me, but why would anyone want to? :zoink:

Hehe, OK I had gone too far. But Hagarag was not believing me, so I just posted that as documentation.

[America-Hye]

Stormy,

 

Why don't you walk around with blinders on, like the donkeys who are beasts of burden? Loti's homosexuality was clearly a factor of his Turkophilia, and most probably his Armenophobia.

 

I wonder if you are like the women who tell their husbands that they are non-participants in their marital sexual relations. They just lie there and do not respond to their husband's sexual advances.

 

Human sexuality is part of what God made us to be. It is so ludicrous that the Pope issues pronouncements against homosexuality and extra-marital relations when the situation in his own house is laughable.

 

While I have been married to a woman and hope to marry again to a woman, I really do not care what others choose to do. Whether or not homosexuals get married or not would not have changed any aspect of my marriage.

[DominO123]

Stormy,

 

Why don't you walk around with blinders on, like the donkeys who are beasts of burden? Loti's homosexuality was clearly a factor of his Turkophilia, and most probably his Armenophobia.

 

I wonder if you are like the women who tell their husbands that they are non-participants in their marital sexual relations. They just lie there and do not respond to their husband's sexual advances.

 

Human sexuality is part of what God made us to be. It is so ludicrous that the Pope issues pronouncements against homosexuality and extra-marital relations when the situation in his own house is laughable.

 

While I have been married to a woman and hope to marry again to a woman, I really do not care what others choose to do. Whether or not homosexuals get married or not would not have changed any aspect of my marriage.

Not really, his homosexuality may have been a factor, but not entirly. Loti was interested by commerce, and the Ottoman for Westerners at his time was a gold opportunity. The Armenians were in his way, like for many others more particularly British "voyagers."

Edited August 1, 2003 by Fadix

[Stormig]

I wonder if you are like the women who tell their husbands that they are non-participants in their marital sexual relations. They just lie there and do not respond to their husband's sexual advances.

Getting personal, aren't we?

[America-Hye]

Stormy,

 

In many Islamic countries, women are maimed as they enter puberty. Their privates are violated in a brutal ceremony to insure that the do not find pleasure in sexual relations.

 

In Christian nations, this is achieved through psychological brain-washing by the clergy of various Christian denominations.

 

It was not meant to be a personal statemanent, but a statement reflecting your wish to put the blinders on regarding the homosexuality of Loti.

[Stormig]

the homosexuality of Loti.

It is of no consequence to anything, any more than your bisexuality is, yet you seem to have this desire to speak it out every opportunity you get (not that it is the least that you try to blurt out every chance). I mean, who gives a rat's arse? I don't talk about my heterosexuality (or my family) every chance that I get, therefore I am kewl to read.

[America-Hye]

Now we are getting down to the real nitty-gritty. This was not a subject I spoke of for many, many years. Then after I left a young woman to take up a relationship with another young woman, the first woman secretly staulked me for months, marking my every move. Since all three of us worked at the same place, her broadcating my ambivaloent sexuality there caused me much heartache. At that point I went on a jihad, knowing that this could not remain a private matter. Unless a heterosexual person is cheating on their mate, they do not have to hide their sexuality. There are no repercussions if someone blasts out your HETEROSEXUALITY in the workplace.