A Father's Role

[Gayane]

I agree with Martin in that the issue of a father's involvement in his family's life is also a women's issue. So much so that it warrants discussion under a separate heading. My sister and I are fortunate enough to have a wonderful, very involved father. Unfortunately, from what I've observed, this isn't as common as we'd all like.

 

Here I'll ask you to define what a father's role should be. Input from the great fathers we have on this forum is especially welcome What are the areas that a father should be involved in? What are the spheres best left to the mother (if there are any)? Should there be such stringest separation of the respective parents' roles? Finally, what are some of the problems resultant from a father's underperformed role as a father (read lack of involvement--yes, I'm biased )? Perhaps most important: how do we address the issue or remedy the situation?

[MJ]

In traditional Armenian families, fathers’ primary role has been providing for the family, and pretending that he runs the household. They have not been very close with the children, as it has been considered as a breach of authority. Much of that has been sort of a play. Not that they have not felt tenderly for their children, but it has been the norm – the father has to pretend to be tough, you should not show any, or at least, much emotions. Traditionally, however, Armenian men have felt enormous responsibility for their family and children.

 

In my view, this motto of “no emotions” is wrong. Fathers should be as tender with their children as the mothers are, and they have to show it. Their authority has to be manifested not through the “toughness,” but the ability to earn respect.

 

With all this, I think that the major chunk of responsibilities, and the major function in the family (beyond the earning function), in healthy families, at least, has belonged to the mothers. Mothers have been the axis of the family, and they have been the leaders of the family (not explicitly). Most of the functions have been delegated to the mothers by the good fathers/husbands.

In our days, the role of the exclusive “earner” of fathers is changing in the society in different ways and for different reasons (for example, in Armenia, due to the high levels of unemployment and low wages). I expect this would imply tremendous changes in the fabric of Armenian families. I don’t know how would fathers cope with this over the long run. But I am sure that it will become (if it hasn’t already become) a source of huge psychological complex for Armenian men. This complex may be manifested in many different ways in the spectrum from the lack of desire to get married in the first palce, to domestic violence. Nevertheless, I think the women have to do their best to establish themselves as independent personalities before their marriage. If they have such personality before the marriage, the will maintain it throughout the marriage regardless of who earns for living.

 

Clearly, there may also be significant differences with respect to fathers’ posture in the family, whether they have female children or male. Clearly, if you have daughters, your style of their upbringing, and the amount of functions delegated to your wife would be much greater then if you had sons. But at the end of the day, the most important thing is that the children have the feeling that their father loves them, they are there for them, and they are fair and honest with them.

 

In my view, from certain age of children, the family relations have to be one of a partnership, rather than hierarchy. Children appreciate it, it makes them more responsible people, and they feel important and respected. And if children don’t feel respected, they are not going to respect. The worst thing to give them is a feeling of fear, which in some Armenian families has been the norm.

 

But the most important thing to have in the family is an atmosphere of partnership between the father and the mother. If this relationship is in place, it doesn’t matter who seems on the surface to be delegated with what functions and powers.

 

To summarize, I think healthy fathers’ role (beyond earning) in the family has to be to raise children as if they are partners in the family. Obviously, that starts from the partnership with their wives, as mentioned above.

[dragon]

100% hamatsayn em usadznerout, MJ. Meg haveloum` iprev khrad hayreroun.-

 

Ngadi aradz vor verchin tareroun ayr martots ungerayin teragadaroutiunu krete voch meg popokhoutian yentargvadz e, minchter gineru or avour harachtimoutiun artsanakradz en (ousoum-kordz-ungerayin teragadaroutiun-mayroutiun...), ashkharhi vra nergayis gardzes toultsadz e dghamartots aztetsoutiunu(chuselou hamar` arjezurgvadz...aveli gobid` sahmanapagvadz` miayn seruntakordzoutian sahmanneroun mech). Hedevapar, aysorvan dghamartu havelyal jik unelou bardavoroutian mu timats gu kudnvi` undanikin ou ungeroutian mech ir vaghemi tirku gankoun bahelou hamar. Amousnagan ou undanegan gyankin mech aysor gu hachoghin anonk, voronk irents gineroun hed 50% gu pajnegtsin amen bardaganoutiun, UNGER en irents goghagitsneroun ou zavagneroun, ullale arach amousin gam hayr. Amousnoutian ''peru'' danelou badrasd kidagits ginn ou aghchigu gyanki ungeroch e vor bedk ouni aysor, yev voch te hrahankner artsagogh ou arnagan ir ouju tsoutsatrogh ayr martots.

 

Nergayis gu pundurvi humor-ov letsoun, hokiyov tetev, ashkhadaser, moloutiunnere zerdz, kidagits, ousyal, gnoch jikern ou nertroumu knahadogh, undanikin hamar zohvogh, SIREL KIDTSOGH yeridasartner. Anonk voronk ays dvyalneru chen grer, oush gam ganoukh DIVORCE-i jampan bidi kudnen irenk zirenk.

 

Dragon

[Artur]

MJ, good post.

 

First of all, father is the head, host. His word should be the last.

 

About kids. I always respected my father, and could never argued with him. And always his punishment could be the worst in my life. In Attitude to a son, a kid should feel that father is a respectable person, and you cannot argue or go against his word. This respect should be with you for the rest of your life. But when you are 15-18, as being the esldest in the family, he tries more talk with you like an equal man, discussing the business, family aspects about his brother etc. However, this is not a sign that you can talk with your father in totaly equal way as you talk with a friend, never! It is because you are grown, and the same respect should go for rest of your life. I agree, as MJ says, that in some age the relationship between father and a son should be some kind of partnership, but it should not go beyond discussing. And if goes beyond that and a child argues or does not agree with father and it leads to a huge argument, then this is the biggest disrespect.

 

About "toughness", father has to be always "tough", better word would be strict with a son, more with a son rather a daughter. And thru this a child has to learn respect. However, this does not mean that father should hit a child or whatsoever. My father never raised his hand over me, but when he punishes or teaches me, he explains my mistakes.

 

Moreover, i agree that one of the duties of father is to raise a child. In combination of earning money and raising child, father should have some time for kids e.g. taking to swiming pool, going to a park etc. But the main part is left for a mother.

 

And nothing in the world can be more appreciatable than what mothers do for us. Mother's role within the family is the most important. Raising kids, taking care of them, spending nights in helping doing the homework etc. can never be compared to any kind of caring in the world.

 

 

Artur

[dragon]

Dragon is a loving husband and caring father. I feel lucky being his wife. He's a great freind at the same time. Once you meet him, you never forget him.

 

Mrs. Dragon

[MJ]

Well, Artur, I am flattered to receive your stamp of approval.

 

But I have to report to you that while you have legitimate rights to have your view on things, especially family relationship, as you grow, even your views may change. Do you think that you father is a stereotype of your grandfather, or is there any difference between them?

 

Don't you think that you may have a totally different perspective on things when you have children?

 

I cannot claim that I am the head of my family. Neither can my wife. We are partners, and will discuss with each other everything - including business. And I would not take any serious business decisions without consulting with her. First of all, because I respect her, and the decisions that I make affect her, too. Second, because I trust her judgment, motives, and most importantly, her instincts, which are better than those of mine.

 

And my wife and daughters will sit at the table with anybody. If anybody comes to my house with an expectation that my wife and daughters should not be sitting at the table with them, and have to rather serve, I'll through him out the window. I will conclude that he doesn't deserve the privilege sitting at the table with my family.

 

I think you get the pattern.

 

But I can respect your norms and tastes, and would not even attempt to change them. What you do in your family is not my or anybody else' business.

 

You look at the world from your window, and others look from theirs. You can live your way, and others would live their way.

 

But when you claim that your way is [/i]the Armenian way of life and raising family, that's where you are wrong, and that's were you cross your boundaries. And when you do that, you should not be surprised that other people resent it. If you want others to respect your views and ways, you have to demonstrate such respect to others.

[Artur]

Well, MJ it looked more like an uncle or my brother posting... but...

 

I can not argue and dicuss about family, saying this will definetly happen or his will surely be like that, because i am not married and people change and their attitudes change when they become a father or a mother.

 

But i have the views and attitudes which are fundament for this.

 

But, i think that the difference between my grandfather(RIP) and father is not very large.

 

And about the last part, i don't try to say that this is the armenian way, but trying to generalize, nowing many families and many friends in Armenia, Russia or Kazakhstan makes me generelize in this way.

 

With respect,

Artur

 

P.S. BTW i have relatives that would never allow their women to sit in the same table as men, top mountain armenians And i have respect for these people, because none of us keeps traditions as they do.

[MJ]

Well, technically speaking, I could've been your father or uncle, Artur – as much as this thought may horrify you. And as I have said before, you have all the rights on the earth to have the views or the lifestyle you advocate. And the lifestyle of your relatives that you mention is not new. We all know about that mode of family life, no matter how "Westernized" we are.

 

However, as Jesus Christ himself has told us, " Give Cesar what belongs to Cesar, and give to God what belongs to God."

[Pilafhead]

Well, I'm far from a great father at this point but give me time--I'm still learning!



Offhand, I can't think of any area that should be off-limits to one parent or the other.




No. The thing I've quickly learned is the best aspect of a two parent household is the more balanced, well-rounded and robust upbringing it provides. My wife's strengths make up for my weaknesses and vice-versa, and it's good for our son to see both the strengths and weaknesses in us.

Some examples:

• my wife reads fiction novels, I read magazines and reference guides
  
• my wife is pretty much anti-drugs and I am much more liberal
  
• She comes from a background of literature and theatre, I had Mad Magazine and The Three Stooges
  
• I have a much more volatile disposition, whereas she is more even keeled
  
• I'm an only child from a single-parent household, she's the youngest of four from a two-parent household
  
• My wife goes to bed early and I'm a night owl
  
• I'm tall and dark, she's short and fair, etc.

All of this provides a wide breadth of background and experience for our son.



As my above answer would imply, the child only gains from half of the life experiences that a two-parent child receives. While two parents aren't perfect, they're much more so than one.

For boys, lack of a father probably means no immediate male role model. And for girls, no experience with how to relate to men. Of course, these are broad generalizations. And both get no understanding as to how dominant and submissive people relate and live together. They only see one of the two.

I don't think there are any solutions. Men that aren't involved with their kids are worthless bums. The world has always and will always have 'em. The best way to handle it is to have major involvement from grandfathers and uncles.

[ April 18, 2001: Message edited by: Aghmug ]

[Gayane]

Mikey, I just noticed you getting creative with my name...lol...cute