MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Juggernaut Member Member # 351 posted March 08, 2002 04:54 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hagarag, I am sorry to say this, but you are leaving an impression of a grumpy old man who has achieved little in life (compared to his ancestors/relatives/friends) and has turned to blame his brethren for his troubles. --------------------Vive Deu, Saint Amour! - Templar Knight battle cry --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 307 | From: Sydney, Oz | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Arpa Member Member # 572 posted March 08, 2002 07:11 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Juggernaut:Hagarag, I am sorry to say this, but you are leaving an impression of a grumpy old man who has achieved little in life (compared to his ancestors/relatives/friends) and has turned to blame his brethren for his troubles.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== DROOOOOONE, DRONE!!!In all senses of the word.1. A constant and at times an annoying noise. One Armenian word to describe this is "bzzyun". In musical terms, just like the bagpipe where one is assigned as a "drone" to keep a constant monotonous low tone, duduk is also usually played by two players one of which keeps the "dam", the monotonous drone. Hence the inferred definition of the word as a "monotonous and annoying noise". 2. A sterile and fruitless male bee whose only mission in life is to toil, service the queen bee, or the Sultan as it may, and die. We meet the likes every day. They cannot get over the fact that those "idiots", the likes of Varouzhan, Siamanto and Zohrab disrupted their dronelike lives in Istanbul. All they wanted was to be left in peace, eke a living and pay taxes to the Sultan so he can make more weapons. Grigor Zohrab describes them in his novella Jitin Partk@ so aptly. See the site below.http://www.iatp.am/resource/artcult/zohrab/armzoh.htmI have even met people who at the aftermath of the Earthquake and the unbeareably hard times during the struggle for Artsakh were ready to give it all up with words like "What the hell are they still doing in that God forsaken piece of rock? Why don't they all leave, go to Europe, come to America or even 'Istabul'? We had such a peaceful and propsperous life until those idiots came up with the idea of a homeland and independence!!!" Hagarag may have done one right thing, choosing his nickname. His constant drone is a feeble attempt to blame everything and everybody for the fruitless failure he is. He should consider moving back to Istanbul and pick up where his ancestors left. Shame! Shame! They were rudely uinterupted. One question. Hagarag why did your ancestors leave Istanbul? Many stayed behind. Were they looking for even more prosperity in Europe and America?DRONE, DRONE and more DRONE!!! --------------------Yeraz Sevan, dzarav im Sevan,Bartsrik dzoveri arqa,Spasir Sevan, shounch qashir, Sevan,Qo girkn e shtapoum Arpan.Yuri Sahakyan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 99 | From: US | Registered: Oct 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 08, 2002 10:08 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Interesting that I am barraged by you two in this thread. Since you do not have the evidence to attack the message, you choose to attack the messenger. Who I am and my station in life is immaterial to the issues that have been discussed in this thread. That my comments have gotten under some people's skin gives me great pleasure.I have shaken your smug perceptions which are TOTALLY jaded. I can assure you that I am highly educated and have won many professional awards in my career. My problem is with the perceptions of the majority of Armenians engendered by a generally Middle-Eastern born and backward looking clergy. I will drone on until in an attempt to see Armenians break out of their traditional straight-jacket. Furthermore, you know NOTHING of my ancestors, who they were or what they stood for. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 08, 2002 11:52 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------So Arpa, Was your grandfather a close friend and confidant of the one you revere, Zohrab, as was mine? Was your grandmother sharing personal correspondence and conversation with is daughter Dolores Zohrab Liebmann? I am sick and tired of the Armenian approach that in order to be heard one has to be prominent. You are so very transparent, a typical narrow-minded Armenian who slavishly follows whaever his Der Hayr preaches, even if the Der Hayr is just an Arabized Armenian. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 08, 2002 12:09 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------My mother was a Judaized Armenian due to her career which brought her into close contact with many Jewish people, most unfamous but some famous, and WASPs who worked in her career, some also famous. I married into an Arabized Armenian family. I would take the few Judaized Armenians over the numerous Arabized Armenians instantly. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 gamavor Member Member # 116 posted March 08, 2002 04:06 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Mehmet, Thoth and the rest of the liberals: This thred is about Saroyan. It is not about his wife, nor it is about your respective ancestors and their professions. Mehmet, Your Armenian wife made a great mistake by marring such a miserable creachear like you. May God have mercy for you and those alike you.I will pray for you in my spare time. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 448 | From: Houston, TX | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Juggernaut Member Member # 351 posted March 08, 2002 04:39 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hagarag you remind me of the old Armenian folk who gather at the local shopping center for their daily gossip/politics/how to cheat the system session. The only difference between them and you is that you have read a few (not many) books and has enough money to buy a PC. As for your 'message', its just one complaint after another, nothing constructive, your only role to me seems to degrade the greatness of this nation. And it matters little to me weather Saroyans wife was a Jew, a chimp or an octopus. Why dont you go get circumsized and be over and done with it. Then you can forget about us (who dont appreciate you enough) and glorify your new co-religionists. [ March 08, 2002, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Juggernaut ] --------------------Vive Deu, Saint Amour! - Templar Knight battle cry --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 307 | From: Sydney, Oz | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Arpa Member Member # 572 posted March 08, 2002 07:18 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by hagarag:So Arpa, Was your grandfather a close friend and confidant of the one you revere, Zohrab, as was mine? Was your grandmother sharing personal correspondence and conversation with is daughter Dolores Zohrab Liebmann? I am sick and tired of the Armenian approach that in order to be heard one has to be prominent. You are so very transparent, a typical narrow-minded Armenian who slavishly follows whaever his Der Hayr preaches, even if the Der Hayr is just an Arabized Armenian.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I really don't want to get into a debate with as you I suspect that your comprehension is defective. BTW. My grandfather was not a confidant of Zohrab, he could not even write his own name. Name dropping will not get you anywhere. As to your comprehension and the lack thereof, where did you get the impression that I even heed to a DerHayr. For that matter, I have never subscribed to the DerHayr's church, and at the present I don't subscribe to any organized one. I have never heeded to them, neither to their ruperior or to their superiors. Religion seems to bother you. I couldn't care less. As far as I am concerned all the DerHayrs and their ilk can go celebrate Passover with the Rabbis and dance the hora around Jerusalem. Coming back to your comprehesion, if you have read some of posts and still think that I am under the spell of clerics...May be I should write in Hebrew!You need counseling. You must find out why having been born Armenian bothers you so. See if you can get citizenship of TelAviv. This will be my last address to you. --------------------Yeraz Sevan, dzarav im Sevan,Bartsrik dzoveri arqa,Spasir Sevan, shounch qashir, Sevan,Qo girkn e shtapoum Arpan.Yuri Sahakyan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 99 | From: US | Registered: Oct 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 09, 2002 02:11 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------GAMAVOR! Any story of a famous writer or other celebrity must discuss the WHOLE person. To understand Saroyan you would have to understand the complexities of his nature. His interaction with Carl Marcus involved a large portion of his adult life. He married and divorced her twice and she produced his two children, Aram and Lucy. Armenians like you want to cleanse him of this woman, as if the future wife of Walter Matthau, best friend of Gloria Vanderbilt and Oona Chaplin and daughter of a prominent New York social family needs cleansing. FYI my ex-wife and I are on excellent terms now, having both realized that an odarized Protestant Armenian and a Libanahye do not mix well. To her new husband, a somewhat famous American WASP, she is exotic. To me she was a just a dyed-in-the-wool Armenian. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 09, 2002 02:17 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------JUGGS! Sorry to disappoint you but ALL the American males of my era were circumcized as a hygiene measure, so all I have to do to become a Jew is go though a conversion process-no bloodletting necessary. However, by doing such it would let all you Armenians off my hook. You would remain a bunch of ignoramuses in perpetuity. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 09, 2002 02:38 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------ARPA! Have your read "Rhinoceros" by Eugene Ionesco? I think that the Armenian perspective is defective. JUGGS! Sorry dude, but I have read thousands of books, many upon many that you have never heard off. I nowonly have a library of over a thousand since my overly fasidious ex-wife insited that I give about 2,000 others to charity. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 THOTH Member Member # 369 posted March 09, 2002 01:53 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Gamovar - can you read? I posted this on March 6 - after Juggernaut - your conservative hypocritical - do as I say not as I do - obsessed with forcing his fundementalist (with a twist) Christian viewpoint on the rest of us did just that: "note to moderators, Jugs etc - we should maybe move the posts beginning with Jugs christianity comment into religion (I wouldn't want to take away from Saroyan....)" So don't just blame "liberals"...(ie anyone who disagrees with your rather narrow - have no fun - viewpoint). I'm proud to be called a liberal or a progressive BTW (look up the definition sometime...) - even if I do not believe that I fit that mold in its entirety...how can one when he has been around so many overly cautious, naysayer Armenians most of his life... Do you really think that Sarayan would have any sympathy whatsoever with your or Artur or Jugs rather unenlightened views? He would dismiss you as an irrelevant Dinousaur... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 374 | From: USA | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 gamavor Member Member # 116 posted March 09, 2002 03:52 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------My user name is GamavOr - this is with regard to reading. Thoth, I really don't care what you think. Just keep posting whatever you please. He- He- He!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 448 | From: Houston, TX | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 THOTH Member Member # 369 posted March 09, 2002 06:21 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------G - I certainly will.. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 374 | From: USA | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 gamavor Member Member # 116 posted March 10, 2002 02:42 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by MosJan:GAmavor jan ?? inch patahets barekam ??-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Haziv turkeren purguvetzank, hima bedk e h'rianeren purguvink... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 448 | From: Houston, TX | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 koko Member Member # 81 posted March 11, 2002 10:00 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by hagarag:My mother was a Judaized Armenian due to her career which brought her into close contact with many Jewish people, most unfamous but some famous, and WASPs who worked in her career, some also famous. I married into an Arabized Armenian family. I would take the few Judaized Armenians over the numerous Arabized Armenians instantly.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No wonder your opinions are so SIONISTIC!! --------------------Karine M. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 59 | From: euro-crap | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 11, 2002 10:22 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Gamavor, Hyereh bedke Hye midken purgevin. H'rianehreh hachoghveren, paytz Hyereh deha ge daradzvin yev achchdnan. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Boghos Member Member # 67 posted March 11, 2002 11:33 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------I thought this thread was about Saroyan, but instead it seems to be about the village idiot. If for a moment we admit that Armenians, like any other people, are subject to diversity, then the logical conclusion is that we also have our dose. What escapes me is why we have to have it on a daily basis. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 531 | From: Brazil | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 11, 2002 11:53 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Boghos, If you are refering to me, than I am in good company. If you read your history you will see that many who have been called "the village idiot"were later proven right, for example Edison or Galileo. Since you are one who holds an Armenian group-think mentality, I take your insult as a compliment. "Rhinoceros" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Boghos Member Member # 67 posted March 11, 2002 02:12 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hagarag, No need to get so upset. It is fairly obvious that you are our village's idiot. It is indeed interesting that you say that I have an Armenian "group-think" mentality. This is the first time I hear it, and of course since you know next to nothing about me, there tends to be a great probability that whatever you say is incorrect. But your opinion of me is not of any interest at the moment. I did see your claim of having read thousands of books, that is nice. But not sufficient. Ionesco and Baronian would have a field day with you. The best clowns, and you can ask anybody that was familiar with Soviet circus, were not the "clownish" types, but the serious looking ones. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 531 | From: Brazil | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 11, 2002 03:15 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Boghos, I am no match for either Ionesco nor Baronian, but neither were they able to survive the establishment. Ionesco was not succesful in having his plays performed in his later days and Baronian was starved by the Armenian establishment and died an early death. Ionesco was somewhat successful because he practiced in the French theatre and not the Romanian one. As I have stated before the worst enemy of an independently thinking Armenian is not a Turk or Turks but other Armenians. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Domino Member Member # 370 posted March 12, 2002 09:34 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hagarag, the worst enemies of the Armenians is not other Armenians, the worst enemy of the Armenians is themselves... that is a huge difference, it makes you your worst enemy. [ March 12, 2002, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Domino ] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 270 | From: Canada | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 12, 2002 01:07 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Domino, I am an Armenian with an Protestant American mentality. In many ways I am not Armenian all.I have just been whom I am in Armenian organizations and have been attacked vociferously by the dyed-in-the-wool Armenians. Ditto the treatment I received by my ex-wife. My only problem is that I have reestablished contact with my people. When I lived in a complete odar world I was able to achieve much success. It is the Armenian mentality that is defective in that Armenians tear each other down, while honoring the odars. What kind of sick self-defeating mentality is that? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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