"Tmkaberdi arume"

[Guest]

Has anyone come accross with this poem of Hovhaness Toumanyan?

There's a "very good" character of an Armenian woman in this poem (I meen the queen). And not only, it is a general character for all women.

[Guest]

hmm Tmbkaberty Arum @te tmbkaberty Ankum@ ? lav chem hishum / sakayn kareli e p@rp@tel .

[Guest]

In that poem Tumanyan said:

"Yes barutian khoskn em asum" (in entry part)

 

 

[This message has been edited by Ararat (edited November 10, 2000).]

[Guest]

T@mbkaberti Arum / kam T@mbkaberti Gravum@

yete chem sxalvum janachvat s xosk@ > te chlini Kin@ yev Ginin el ov karor e kortsanel Hayin < kartsem iyspes er

Hye (95% Tatull 2 1/2% torgom kam 2 1/2 % Atom vstah chem anun@ inch er ) ishxanin xmtsnum en knanikov ban man taq jur sarr@ jur sauna baseyin / ishxani knoj@ apakormnoroshum en yev verch @lav chi linum gravum en t@mbkaberd@ . bayst te norits verchum menk Hayers Bayorakan Hardanak tarank parsikneri dem.

 

 

 

Manramasn chem hishum 15 tary e anstel yerevi vor kardatsel em .

 

[This message has been edited by MosJan (edited August 12, 2000).]

 

[This message has been edited by MosJan (edited August 12, 2000).]

[Guest]

Sulamik,

"Arumn" er te "ankum@"?

Chgituem inch er bayc hayern ays poemum shat vat qashvum ein taguhu patcharov.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Berj:
Sulamik,
"Arumn" er te "ankum@"?
Chgituem inch er bayc hayern ays poemum shat vat qashvum ein taguhu patcharov.

---

Tmbkaberdi Arum@

Xostanum em gtnel qo uzats togher@

[Guest]

"Ov khaxter qaj zinvorin te ch@linein kinn u ginin"

[Guest]

Sulamik jan,

Noric shat mersi.

 

Ays poem@ kardalov hangum em ezrakacutyan vor azgayin arzheqner@ ashkharhi zhoghovurdneri metsamasnutyan, ayd tvum nayev hayeri mot, pahpanum en tghamadrik, isk kanayq karogh en harmarvel cankacats iravichaki.

[Guest]

Berj (Your name is Armen, right?..use it!!)

 

Ays hartsum yevs menk hamamit chenk linelu

Ayd KINNE for pahpanume azgayin arzheknere (I know, I know, I shouldn't talk, right?) Well, think about it. The woman is the real backbone of the family. She's the one who'll bend every whichever way to please her husband (how many armenian men do you know who will do that for their wives?), she's the one who will give in at the end to her husband to preserve the sanctity of their marriage, to keep the family intact (again, how many arm. men will do that?), she's the one who most often teaches the children the values and morals we all take with us into adulthood, she's the one who instills in the children a sense of pride in their culture. The list goes on and on. Have I made my point yet

 

(I'd suggest moving this to a separate topic, as I think there's a lot to be said here)

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gayane:


Berj (Your name is Armen, right?..use it!!)

/B]

---

Sir, yes sir! ) joking

I can't get why have you come to conclusion that somebody wishes you shouldn't talk.
Yes, women WERE the backbone of the family once, but not any more. There are no backbones in the families at the present, or maybe economic necessity is the only backbone.
And also if a woman gives in only IN THE END, the necessity of giving in can be questioned, because in those times usually it doesn't help any more.
No need to seperate this as a topic, we can discuss it in the context on "Tmkaberdi arum@".
Armen

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Berj:

Yes, women WERE the backbone of the family once, but not any more. There are no backbones in the families at the present, or maybe economic necessity is the only backbone.

---

Armen jan,

I thought we were talking about (and referring to) the poem which was written in the early 1900's. I think most of us will agree that armenian women had a major role in the preservation of the armenian culture AND the family unity.

This role may have changed but not that drasticly.

Aneta

[Guest]

Parzvets vor im grqerits voch meki mej ch@ka ayd poem@ Bayts xostanum em Yerevanum yeghats jamanaks anpaymen gtnel ayn hator@ vori mej ka "Tmbkaberdi Arum@" ... yev mi mas tpel dzez hamar

 

Aneta

[Guest]

I have it! In russian...lol

I think Toumanian was very very upset about his wife when he wrote it...

[Guest]

Sulamita,

 

It is in the v.1 of the four volume edition of Tumanyan's works. If you have a fax number, I can fax it to you.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MJ:
Sulamita,

It is in the v.1 of the four volume edition of Tumanyan's works. If you have a fax number, I can fax it to you.

---

I greatly appreciate your willingness, but there is no need to go through the trouble. I will get hold of a hard copy soon

Aneta

[Guest]

It was when I visisted Toumanyan's village , that I got into soul of his poem.

For me this work is a philosophical thesis, especially when he repeats:

"abrek dghek payts mez bes chabrek".

[Guest]

Tmbkaberdi Arum@ (1902)

 

Naxerganq

 

Hey, paronner, akanj areq

Taparakan ashughin,

Sirun tiknayq, jahel t@gherq,

Lav ush dreq im xaghin:

 

Menq amenqs hyur enq kyanqum

Mer ts@nndyan puch orits,

Hertov galis, ants enq kenum,

Es antsavor ashxarhits:

 

Ants en kenum, ser u xndum,

Geghetskutyun, gandz u gah,

Mah@ mern e, menq mahin@,

Mardu gortsn e misht anmah:

 

Gortsn e anmah lav imatseq,

Vor xosvum e daredar,

Yernek nran, vor in gortsov

Kapri anverj, andadar:

 

Charn el e misht aprum anmer,

Anetsq nra char gortsin,

Vordid lini, te hern u mer,

Te murazov sirats kin:

 

Yes lavutyan xosqn em asum,

Vor jptum e mer srtin.

Ov chi sirum, tekuz dushman,

Lav ararq@ lav mardin:

 

Ey, lav kenaq, akanj areq,

Mi ban patmem himi dzez,

Xosqs, teseq, ur e gnum,

Qaj vorskani gyulli pes:

 

(sharunakem?)

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Sulamita (edited October 04, 2000).]

[Guest]

Anshusht-> Yev naxapes shnorhakalutyun

[Guest]

I

 

Nadir Shah@ zorq havaqets,

Zorq havaqets anhamar,

Yekav Tmbka berd@ patets,

Inchpes gishern en xavar:

 

--Hey, qaj Tatuj, kanchets Shah@,

Anmah eir qez kartsum?

Yek, berel em yes qo mah@,

Inch es tarel amrotsum:

 

--Mi partsena, goroz Nadir,

Patasxanets en hskan.

Glxov@ shat amper kantsnen,

Sar@ misht ka ansasan:

 

Asav, kanchets ir qajerin,

Tur@ kapets havluni,

Trav, hetsav n@juyg ir dzin,

Dasht@ ijav aryuni:

 

U qarsun or, qarsun gisher,

Kriv tvin andadar,

@nkan qajer, antiv qajer,

Berdi glxin havasar:

 

iran, Turan voghj yekel en,

Tatuln anhaght, ann@kun,

Zorq u baban xortakvel en,

Nra berd@ misht kangun:

 

U misht urax, haghtanakov

Ir amrotsn e darnum na.

Spasum e entegh kin@,

Jahel kin@ sevachya:

 

 

II

 

En tesak kin,

Yes im hogin,

Te ashughn el unenar,

Arants zenqi,

Arants zorqi,

Shaheri dem kgnar:

 

Siro hrots,

Krak u bots --

Enpes achqer te jptan,

Mardu hamar

Orva pes var

Gisherner@ lluys k@tan:

 

Vardi terter --

Enpes shurter

Te haghtutyun qez maghten,

El qez voch shah,

Voch ah u mah,

Voch zenq u zorq k@haxten:

 

(sharunakeli)

[Guest]

III

 

U krvi dashtum shahi arajin

Arin mi angam govq@ siruni.

Nran` ir tesqov, hasakov asin,

Chi hasni ch@qnagh hurin Irani:

Tsov en achqer@ Javaxqi dster

U korchum e mard nra hayatsqum,

Jakat@ jermak en dzyunits el der,

Vor bartsr Abuli gagatn e tsatskum:

Na e shunch, hogin ishxan Tatuli,

Nra sirovn e harbats en hskan,

Nra jpitn e qajin uzh tali,

Vor dasht e ijnum aryutsi nman:

Te tires, mets shah, du nra srtin,

Tatuln el anzor k@nkni votid tak,

Hangist ktires yev Tmbuk berdin,

Vor ches karenum esqan jamanak:

 

IV

 

Espes e asel hnuts ed masin

Farsi byulbyul@, anmah Firdusin.

Inch@ khaxti kyanqum herosin,

Te ch@ linin

Kinn u ginin:

 

Arevi nman jakat@ paytsar,

Nayum e xroxt, kangnats inchpes sar,

Ov kani nran getnin havasar,

Te ch@ linin,

Kinn u ginin:

 

Parum e ases kriv gnalis

Get@nqits verev trchum man galis.

Ov tsats kberi bran trchelis,

Te ch@ linin

Kinn u ginin:

 

Tekuz yev arar ashxarh ga vran,

Kerta dem u dem, tur chi tal iran,

Rustem Zaln el chi haxtil nran,

Te ch@ linin,

Kinn u ginin:

 

(sharunakeli)

[Nané]

V

 

U gh@rkets shah@ ir tovich yergchin.

Gna te~s, asav, T@mka tiruhun,

Yergi im ser@ nra arajin,

Patmi~ im parq@ u gandz@ anhun:

Xostatsir nran im voske gah@,

Xostatsi nran ame~n, amen ban,

Inch vor karogh e xostanal shah@,

Yerkrakal shah@ ir sirats knkan:

 

____________________

 

Ur ahegh k@rvov chi mtnil arqan,

Ghonagh e ashughn iren sazi het.

Yev aha mi or tser, taparakan

Mi aghqat ashugh mtav T@mkaberd:

 

VI

 

Gorum en, doghum T@mka dzorer@,

Kangnats e Tatul shah@ hamdiman.

Zarkum en, zarkvum dushman zorqer@,

Aryun@ hosum` en Qri nman:

 

Zarkum en, zarkvum dushman zorqer@,

Aryun@ hosum` en Qri nman.

Yergum e ashughn ir shahi ser@,

Anhun gandzer@ u parqn ansahman ...

 

Lsum e matagh T@mka tiruhin.

Yev vrdovum en ir mitq@ taqun

Davajan gorsi amot@ xorhin

Yev arqayakan parqn u metsutyun ...

 

Lsum es du? sirun tikin,

A~y nazani annman.

Nayi shahi~n, iren zorqi~n,

Ashxarhi tern ansahman ...

 

Mez pes tkar mard e na el`

Sirunnerin misht geri.

Qu jakatin tagn e vayel,

Lines sh@qe~gh taguhi ...

 

Lsum e ch@qnagh T@mka tiruhin

Gisher u tserek, nori~ts u norits ...

U dartsav na lu~r, dalu~k, m@taxo~h,

U qun@ paxav sirun achqerits ...

 

VII

 

Dartsav ir krvits ishxan Tatul@,

Dartsav haxtakan iren zorqi het.

Srbets, patyan@ drav ker tur@,

Ts@ntsutyan dzaynits doghats T@mkaberd:

 

X@njuyq e sarqel T@mka tiruhin,

Tserek e arel xavar gisher@.

Hegheghi nman hosum e ginin,

U qef e anum Javaxqi ter@:

 

Ptuyt e galis ch@qnagh tiruhin,

Antsnum e, h@skum seghannern amen,

Hordorum, x@ndrum, vor urax linen,

Vor liqn u arat bazhakner qamen:

 

--Hapa l@tsreq, im qaj hyurer,

Bajaknerd liuli,

X@menq -- asvats k@truk ani

Tur@ im qaj Tatuli:

 

--E~y, ter astvats k@truk ani

Tur@ mer qaj ishxani,

Nra shuq@ misht hanapaz

Mer glxits@ anpakas:

 

U tndum e T@muk berd@

En aghmukits x@ndutyan,

Vorotum en taghn u yerg@

Gor dzaynerov haxtakan:

 

--En m@tin ampits artsivn e ijnum?

Sari artsiv@ sheshtaki tapov:

--En T@mka berdits Tatuln e ijnum,

T@shnamu hogin ltsnum sarsapov:

 

--En T@mka dzorum sev ampn e gorum?

En shantn e jaytum enpes aharku?

--En T@mka dzorum Tatuln e krvum,

En turn e shachum enpes aharku:

 

Inch sari artsiv khasni qajin?

Inch shah kkangni nra arajin?

 

U chi dadarum yergi het varar

Kaxeti ginin xelagar hosel.

Xmum en tiknoj tank kyanqi hamar,

Vor en zhayrerin tsaghik e busel:

 

Xmum en k@rvogh qajeri parqin,

Vor krvi dashtum kyanq chi xnayum,

Yev @nkatsneri surb hishatakin,

Vor yerknqits en ayzhm irents nayum ...

 

P@tuyt e galis tsaghik tiruhin,

Antsnum e, h@skum seghannern amen,

Hordorum, x@ndrum, vor urax linen,

Vor liqn u arat bazhakner qamen:

 

--O~f, tiruhi, astvats vka,

El chenq karogh menq xmel.

El uzh ch@ka, el tegh ch@ka,

Shat enq xmel u hognel ...

 

U hangchum e T@muk berd@,

Papandzvum e u marum,

Harbats, hognats tern u zorq@

M@rapum en xavarum:

 

VIII

 

Lur u xavarchtin kamarneri tak,

Hognats u q@nats bazmutyan vrov

T@rchum en, t@rchu~m, se~v, charagushak

Yerazner ahegh, anverj xmberov:

 

Yeraz e tesnum Tatul ishxan@,

Vor vishap odz@ ekel e aha,

Yekel patatvel, ir berd@ patel,

Glux@ drel yev pochi vra:

 

U bartsratsnum e h@reshn ahreli,

Iren glux@ bartsratsnum e ver,

Bartsratsnum e minchev bartsunq@ berdi,

Minchev Tatuli palatn u t@ner:

 

Parkats e ibrev Tatul ishxan@

Nazeli knoj gluxn ir krtsqin,

U ibr asum e` ver kats, im hreshtak,

To~gh, vor spanem yes ed hreshin:

 

Espes e asum Tatul ishxan@,

U zarhuranqov tesnum e hankarts,

Iren sireli knoj g@lxi tegh

Odzi gluxn e k@rtsqin tsanratsats ...

 

IX

 

E~h, h@sketse~q, inch eq qnum?

Qaj zinvorner Tatuli.

Ov e? teseq, tanjvum mtnum,

Qun chi achqin mot gali:

 

Ch@lini te? haghtaharvats,

Jar@ hatats t@shnamin

Dav e dnum mutn u merats

Kes gisherva es jamin:

 

Ve~r katseq, ve~r, amboghj gisher

Mard e gnum u gali.

He~y, zartnetse~q, aryuts qajer,

Pahapanner Tatuli:

 

Ve~r katseq, ve~r, harbetsrel e

Ir haghtakan hyurerin,

Bats e anum durn u darpas

Dzer davajan tiruhin:

 

Da~v ... da~v ... yele~q ... kochna~k ... pahna~k ...

Zenq areq, shu~t ... dzi hetse~q, dzi~ ...

J@r@nchum en, d@gh@rdum en

Darpasner@ yerkatsi ...

 

X

 

Bats arav tserekn ir achq@ paytsar

Ashxarqi vra, Javaxqi vra,

Averak berdin, sev ampi n@man,

Tsuxn u t@shnamin choqel en aha:

 

Haghtutyan parqov u ginov harbats

Q@nats en berdi yev zorqern, yev ter,

U havityan el mnatsin qnats,

Davin anteghyak, tsavin antarber:

 

N@stats e shah@, nra arajin

Aha irikvan qefin seghan@.

Nayum e shah@ anter gahuyqin,

Mtqovn e antsnum ashxarhi ban@:

 

Ashxarhqum ch@ka hastat voch mi ban,

U mi havatal yerbeq voch mekin.

Voch baxti, parqi, voch mets haxtutyan,

Voch sirats knka t@vats bazhakin ...

 

U li darnutyamb hartsnum e na

Daluk, marmarion T@mka tiruhun.

--Patasxan tu~r indz, matnich sevachya,

Mite Tatul@ qaj cher u sirun ...?

 

--Qaj er u sirun qeznits aravel.

Mi bartsr u azniv t@ghamard er na.

Knoj matnutyamb amrots chi arel,

Chi yeghel kyanqum yerbeq xabeba ...

 

Espes tikin@ t@vav patasxan.

Anhun tsasumits m@r@nchats shah@.

--He~y, dahi~j, gorats gazani nman.

Dahij@ iskuyn mtav srah@:

 

XI

 

Dahijn ekav votits glux

Karmir hagats u aryun,

U durs taran ir palatits

T@mka sirun tiruhun:

 

Taran antak en zher qarits,

Vor kangnats e minch esor,

En ahavor qari tserits

G@loretsin depi dzor:

 

Gel u aghves yekan handits

Agah sirt@ lapetsin,

Tsin u agrav ijan ampits,

Sev achqer@ hanetsin:

 

Antsav antes u ann@man

En sirun@ ashxarhis,

Inchpes tsaghikn antsav garnan,

Vor chi tsaxki el norits:

 

Antsav zulum en mets arqan

Iren parqov u zorqov,

Antsav Tatuln en haghtakan

U ir qajern en kargov:

 

U n@rantsits menak anmer

Es zruyts@ hasav mez,

Vor mezanits heto el der

Petq e xosvi misht espes:

 

XII

 

He~y, paronne~r, akanj are~q

Taparakan ashughin,

Siru~n tiknayq, jahe~l t@gherq,

Lav ush dreq im xaghin:

 

Amenqs espes hyur enq kyanqum

Mer ts@nndyan puch orits,

Hertov galis ants enq kenum,

Es antsavor ashxarhits:

 

Ants enq kenum ... miayn anmah

Gortsn e xosvum lav u vat.

A~x, yerani` o~v mard k@ga

U mard kerta anarat:

 

H. Tumanyan

1902